Cyprus-Forum.com

[MrH]

Hi Tim and GR,

Sorry for my Ambiguous response regarding my reason as to Why Cyprus can not join any other pact or alliance without the participation of Turkey, thus showing why it would not be practical for Cyprus to form a federal agreement without the idea of "Two Founding States" at the very least in order to protect TC sensitivities.

Cyprus Treaty of Guarantee
Nicosia, 16 August 1960
The Republic of Cyprus on one part, and Greece, Turkey, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland of the other part.

I. Considering that the recognition and the maintenance of the independence, territorial integrity, and security of the Republic of Cyprus, as established and regulated by the Basic Articles of its Constitution, are in their common interest,

II. Desiring to co-operate to ensure respect for the state of affairs created by that Constitution, Have agreed as follows:


Article I
The Republic of Cyprus undertakes to ensure the maintenance of its independence, territorial integrity, and security, as well as respect for its Constitution.

It undertakes not to participate, in whole or in part, in any political or economic union with any State whatsoever. It accordingly declares prohibited any activity likely to promote, directly or indirectly, either union with any other State or partition of the Island.

So, and according to how I see it, Cyprus' EU entry before an agreed settlement was a mistake - Cyprus and Turkey should have joined the EU together! Otherwise Cyprus legally shouldn't have been allowed.

And, before GR lashes out again, I BELIEVE that Turkey should not sign a Federal agreement without to Founding States for Cyprus unless it is a Full member of the EU - It would be a big mistake for Turkey considering the many failed promises and the serious lack of Guarantee that Turkey will be allowed into the EU.

The original Cyprus republic was seen as a synergy of alliance between Turkey, Greece and Britain. But now it's obviously become an element of Partition!

[MrH]

Seeing that the island has already joined the EU without the participation of Turkey or the Turkish Cypriots or a resolution to the Conflict - Partition will only strengthen your case in ignoring the article quoted above!

UNION, Conflict, Participation and now Partition! Let's seal the cap?

The original Cyprus Republic should not have been handed to the GC Community, considering that it was the GCs whom started the affair! Who wanted 10 additional points FORCEFULLY added to the Cyprus constitution by Makarios and who promoted Inter-communal fighting and a final Coup on 15th July 1974.

Turkey only did what it HAD to do!

[DT.]

Hi Tim and GR,

Sorry for my Ambiguous response regarding my reason as to Why Cyprus can not join any other pact or alliance without the participation of Turkey, thus showing why it would not be practical for Cyprus to form a federal agreement without the idea of "Two Founding States" at the very least in order to protect TC sensitivities.

Cyprus Treaty of Guarantee
Nicosia, 16 August 1960
The Republic of Cyprus on one part, and Greece, Turkey, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland of the other part.

I. Considering that the recognition and the maintenance of the independence, territorial integrity, and security of the Republic of Cyprus, as established and regulated by the Basic Articles of its Constitution, are in their common interest,

II. Desiring to co-operate to ensure respect for the state of affairs created by that Constitution, Have agreed as follows:


Article I
The Republic of Cyprus undertakes to ensure the maintenance of its independence, territorial integrity, and security, as well as respect for its Constitution.

It undertakes not to participate, in whole or in part, in any political or economic union with any State whatsoever. It accordingly declares prohibited any activity likely to promote, directly or indirectly, either union with any other State or partition of the Island.

So, and according to how I see it, Cyprus' EU entry before an agreed settlement was a mistake - Cyprus and Turkey should have joined the EU together! Otherwise Cyprus legally shouldn't have been allowed.

And, before GR lashes out again, I BELIEVE that Turkey should not sign a Federal agreement without to Founding States for Cyprus unless it is a Full member of the EU - It would be a big mistake for Turkey considering the many failed promises and the serious lack of Guarantee that Turkey will be allowed into the EU.

The original Cyprus republic was seen as a synergy of alliance between Turkey, Greece and Britain. But now it's obviously become an element of Partition!

Well done. Now tell us how many points on the Treaty of Guarantee is Turkey currently breaching?

I'll start you off....

Article IV
In so far as common or concerted action may not prove possible, each of the three guaranteeing
Powers reserves the right to take action with the sole aim of reestablishing the state of affairs created by
the present Treaty.

ARTICLE I
The Republic of Cyprus undertakes to ensure the maintenance of its independence,
territorial integrity, and security, as well as respect for its Constitution.
It undertakes not to participate, in whole or in part, in any political or
economic union with any State whatsoever. It accordingly declares prohibited
any activity likely to promote, directly or indirectly, either union with
any other State or partition of the Island.

Right I've tried to highlight some important words for you. Now we can continue onto learning about how many security council resolutions Turkey has broken as well if you want. We'll then move onto the ECHR and hear how many judgements its ignored and then finally we can come back to your point about Cyprus entering the EU despite being invaded and occupied by Turkey.

[Tim Drayton]

Hi Tim and GR,

Sorry for my Ambiguous response regarding my reason as to Why Cyprus can not join any other pact or alliance without the participation of Turkey, thus showing why it would not be practical for Cyprus to form a federal agreement without the idea of "Two Founding States" at the very least in order to protect TC sensitivities.

Cyprus Treaty of Guarantee
Nicosia, 16 August 1960
The Republic of Cyprus on one part, and Greece, Turkey, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland of the other part.

I. Considering that the recognition and the maintenance of the independence, territorial integrity, and security of the Republic of Cyprus, as established and regulated by the Basic Articles of its Constitution, are in their common interest,

II. Desiring to co-operate to ensure respect for the state of affairs created by that Constitution, Have agreed as follows:


Article I
The Republic of Cyprus undertakes to ensure the maintenance of its independence, territorial integrity, and security, as well as respect for its Constitution.

It undertakes not to participate, in whole or in part, in any political or economic union with any State whatsoever. It accordingly declares prohibited any activity likely to promote, directly or indirectly, either union with any other State or partition of the Island.

So, and according to how I see it, Cyprus' EU entry before an agreed settlement was a mistake - Cyprus and Turkey should have joined the EU together! Otherwise Cyprus legally shouldn't have been allowed.

And, before GR lashes out again, I BELIEVE that Turkey should not sign a Federal agreement without to Founding States for Cyprus unless it is a Full member of the EU - It would be a big mistake for Turkey considering the many failed promises and the serious lack of Guarantee that Turkey will be allowed into the EU.

The original Cyprus republic was seen as a synergy of alliance between Turkey, Greece and Britain. But now it's obviously become an element of Partition!

The treaty talks of "union with any other state". The EU is not a state and is thus not covered by this provision.

If we examine the political circumstances surrounding the framing of the Treaty of Guarantee, it is clear that the sole aim was to preclude two possible outcomes: the partition of Cyprus or the union of Cyprus with Greece (or perhaps Turkey). If we take into account the aims of the treaty at the time it was signed, there is little merit in arguing that it prevents Cyprus, not from uniting with another state, but from acceeding to a supra-national formation in such a manner that it retains its sovereignty as an independent nation.

[EPSILON]

Hi Tim and GR,

Sorry for my Ambiguous response regarding my reason as to Why Cyprus can not join any other pact or alliance without the participation of Turkey, thus showing why it would not be practical for Cyprus to form a federal agreement without the idea of "Two Founding States" at the very least in order to protect TC sensitivities.

Cyprus Treaty of Guarantee
Nicosia, 16 August 1960
The Republic of Cyprus on one part, and Greece, Turkey, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland of the other part.

I. Considering that the recognition and the maintenance of the independence, territorial integrity, and security of the Republic of Cyprus, as established and regulated by the Basic Articles of its Constitution, are in their common interest,

II. Desiring to co-operate to ensure respect for the state of affairs created by that Constitution, Have agreed as follows:


Article I
The Republic of Cyprus undertakes to ensure the maintenance of its independence, territorial integrity, and security, as well as respect for its Constitution.

It undertakes not to participate, in whole or in part, in any political or economic union with any State whatsoever. It accordingly declares prohibited any activity likely to promote, directly or indirectly, either union with any other State or partition of the Island.

So, and according to how I see it, Cyprus' EU entry before an agreed settlement was a mistake - Cyprus and Turkey should have joined the EU together! Otherwise Cyprus legally shouldn't have been allowed.

And, before GR lashes out again, I BELIEVE that Turkey should not sign a Federal agreement without to Founding States for Cyprus unless it is a Full member of the EU - It would be a big mistake for Turkey considering the many failed promises and the serious lack of Guarantee that Turkey will be allowed into the EU.

The original Cyprus republic was seen as a synergy of alliance between Turkey, Greece and Britain. But now it's obviously become an element of Partition!

Is same treaty provides that 40000 Turkish troops can stay in the Island?
You consider 1960 treaty only to have ROC Passport, going to hospitals free and all other terms of the trreaty are not valid for you and Turkey.

Now there is a new practical treaty: there is an inlegal occupation army and all citizens of ROC cooperating with this army should not be able to have any benefit or right against ROC.

[MrH]

D.T and Tim,

Fair points, I must agree.

However, it still does not explain how and why after the 1974 conflict the Cyprus republic was handed over to GC administration Only! The UN should have declared a state of crisis until the two sides were able to form a federal government.

By automatically and instantly giving the GCs complete control of the Cyprus Republic in the eyes of the International Community, and due to the sensitive nature of the conflict at the time, it only came natural for the Turkish Cypriots to want to establish their own federated state - those were very bloody times back then! Hence, that's why the Turkish Federated State of Cyprus was formed and remained all the way until 1983! Let's not be one sided here!

As for the Breeches expresses by D.T of Turkey, they were only in the context of protecting the call by the Turkish Cypriots due to the unacceptable results of the bloody conflict since 1963! There are many Breeches int he Original Republic of Cyprus made by the GCs throughout the entire decade of the 1960 and all the way up to 1974!

You must admit that, although we are partners of the original republic, our "Minority" population as the GCs refer to proved to our severe loss as the armed conflict of the 1960s left us perilous and unsupported by the UK. If it weren't for Turkey, similar to the events of the conflict in Yugoslavia, we would have been wiped out. The 1974 coup and then eventual turn on the Turkish Cypriot people was the last turn - and can not be repeated. Our call for our own independent state is a valid one, and must be understood otherwise we'll never agree to a federal formula.

As for Halting Turkey's EU Entry - I serious don't think it is possible, not by the GCs anyway.

[Nikitas]

"Cyprus and Turkey should have joined the EU together"

You are a joker! Cyprus fulfilled its EU qualifications in record time. Turkey will not be able to do so for decades. So why should Cyprus wait for Turkey to catch up? Would you do us the same faovr if the situation was the other way round?

You are quite mad!

[Get Real!]

Ayse...

Under ARTICLE I it says…

It undertakes not to participate, in whole or in part, in any political or
economic union with any State whatsoever. It accordingly declares prohibited
any activity likely to promote, directly or indirectly, either union with
any other State or partition of the Island.

1. It’s as intelligent as the fool who wrote it because even signing an agreement to sell apples on a regular basis to another country could be interpreted as… “economic union with any State”

2. Joining the EU does not seem to violate this poorly written paragraph because the fool who wrote it did not take into consideration that economic and/or political union can also be made with UNIONS that are not states. (ie: EU/ NATO/ etc)

3. It doesn’t say that Cyprus should do things “together” with anybody.

4. Finally, you saw fit to highlight ArticleI but totally missed Article II?...

Greece, Turkey, and the United Kingdom likewise undertake to prohibit, so
far as concern them, any activity aimed at promoting, directly or indirectly,
either union of Cyprus with any other State or partition of the Island.

[Paphitis]

As for Halting Turkey's EU Entry - I serious don't think it is possible, not by the GCs anyway.

Cyprus is the reason why 8 Acquis chapters have been frozen. Turkey's progression has already been halted by Cyprus. There is no chance of Turkey joining the EU without these chapters being addressed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accession_ ... pean_Union

[Get Real!]

The original Cyprus Republic should not have been handed to the GC Community,

You now need to go and study WHY the British “offered” independence to Cyprus before commenting on this. (There are 3 reasons)