Cyprus-Forum.com

[bigOz]

When the Ottoman-Turks first invaded, the island was already Greek speaking, civilised, and had a long written history with many parallels and cultural similarities as well as shared families with mainland Greece .... going back thousands of years.

So yes Cyprus was Greek, and only came under Turkish interest recently. Of course you have some rights by modern practices, based on your accepting the RoC as the democratically elected legal government of the only recognized sovereign establishment of Cyprus. If you do not, then you must leave and join your brethren in Turkey or the parts of it that others are not contesting off you there! !

Most GCs would not ask TCs to deny their Turkish roots. We respect roots. Why do you insist we deny ours, which are so enviable. Why are you so different?

Oracle you chat shite! What makes you think you are "so enviable"? You are just as ignorant about the history of Cyprus as the rest of your compatriates. When the Ottomans first invaded, the island was Greek was it?

Read This:
"1570 Sep 23, The Turks began their attack on Famagusta, Cyprus, which was fortified by Venetian commander Marcantonio Bragadin (b.1523). (http://historicbiography.blogspot.com/2 ... gadin.html)(WSJ, 7/21/08, p.A11)

1571 Sep 1, Famagusta, Cyprus, surrendered to Mustafa Pasha commander of the Turkish forces after nearly a one year siege. The terms of surrender appeared agreeable to Venetian Gov. Marcantonio Bragadin (b.1523), but Mustafa Pasha turned on Bragadin and had him violently tortured and finally flayed alive. " (http://historicbiography.blogspot.com/2 ... gadin.html)

The island had long ceased to have anything to do with mainland Greece since 1190s...

For your information it was:
Lusignan Period 1191-1489
Venetian Period 1489-1571
Ottoman Period 1571-1878

So where was your ties with mainland Greece during almost 1000 years???

Now let me take an educated guess! Had the Ottomans not conquered Cyprus, it would still have belonged to the Italians. The reason being, Italians would not have leased the island to the UK, after the first world war the UK would not have annexed the island, and the British would not havew been in a position to give Cyprus its sovereignity!

Probably we would all be speaking Italian by now, and what little Greek population you had left would have been forced back to Greece by the Italians during the second world war... But who am I to re-write history.

"About 40,000 to 60,000 Turks lived on Cyprus in the late sixteenth century, according to Ottoman migration figures. In the eighteenth century, the British consul in Syria, De Vezin, believed that the Turkish population on the island outnumbered the Greek population by a ratio of two to one. According to his estimates, the Greek Cypriots numbered between 20,000 to 30,000 and the Turkish population around 60,000. Not all historians accept his estimate, however. If there was a Turkish majority, it did not last. By the time of the first British census of the island in 1881, Greek Cypriots numbered 140,000 and Turkish Cypriots 42,638. One reason suggested for the small number of Turkish Cypriots was that many of them sold their property and migrated to mainland Turkey when the island was placed under British administration according to the Cyprus Convention of 1878.

There was a significant Turkish Cypriot exodus from the island between 1950 and 1974 when thousands left the island, mainly for Britain and Australia. The migration had two phases. The first lasted from 1950 to 1960, when Turkish Cypriots benefited from liberal British immigration policies as the island gained its independence, and many Turkish Cypriots settled in London. Emigration would have been higher in this period, had there not been pressure from the Turkish Cypriot leadership to remain in Cyprus and participate in building the new republic.

The second and more intense phase of Turkish Cypriot emigration began after inter-communal strife increased in late 1963. Living conditions for Turkish Cypriots worsened as about 25,000 of them, faced with Greek Cypriot violence, gathered in several enclaves around the island. In addition, all Turkish Cypriots working for the government of the Republic of Cyprus lost their civil service positions. Aid from Turkey allowed those in the enclaves to survive, but life at a subsistence level and the constant threat of violence caused numerous Turkish Cypriots to leave for a better life abroad. As before, most emigrants left for Australia and Britain, but some settled in Turkey. By 1972 the Turkish Cypriot population had declined to around 78,000, and prospects for the community's survival on the island looked bleak." (quote from Cypnet)

Oracle I think you should bugger off to your roots 1000 miles away, and leave us in peace with our relatives only 70 miles away!

[Get Real!]

Oracle I think you should bugger off to your roots 1000 miles away, and leave us in peace with our relatives only 70 miles away!

Why don't you both bugger off and leave me with my INDIGENOUS CHOIROKITIAN relatives who are a mere 20 minute drive from where I live...

[Viewpoint]

How and why does anyone plunder a collapsed roof?

Halil please explain your reports on these observations which are confusing me, and others I think.

As for Cyprus having a Greek character, Big OZ, just count how many villages with Greek names the TRNC had to rename, how many Greek Orthodox churches it had to close down, and figure it out. Ownership does not exist as a notion in national terms. People inhabit an area, they do not own it. Greeks have inhabited Cyprus longer than anyone else, and did so continuously despite passing conquests.

So? Does that give you any more rights? or the right to wipe us out?

[Get Real!]

How and why does anyone plunder a collapsed roof?

Halil please explain your reports on these observations which are confusing me, and others I think.

As for Cyprus having a Greek character, Big OZ, just count how many villages with Greek names the TRNC had to rename, how many Greek Orthodox churches it had to close down, and figure it out. Ownership does not exist as a notion in national terms. People inhabit an area, they do not own it. Greeks have inhabited Cyprus longer than anyone else, and did so continuously despite passing conquests.

So? Does that give you any more rights? or the right to wipe us out?

Absolutely! I've got ten millenniums’ worth more rights than you do... never underestimate the power of indigenousness. If you don’t believe me look at the Turkish Cypriots and the cruel trick fate has played on them…

[Viewpoint]

How and why does anyone plunder a collapsed roof?

Halil please explain your reports on these observations which are confusing me, and others I think.

As for Cyprus having a Greek character, Big OZ, just count how many villages with Greek names the TRNC had to rename, how many Greek Orthodox churches it had to close down, and figure it out. Ownership does not exist as a notion in national terms. People inhabit an area, they do not own it. Greeks have inhabited Cyprus longer than anyone else, and did so continuously despite passing conquests.

So? Does that give you any more rights? or the right to wipe us out?

Absolutely! I've got ten millenniums’ worth more rights than you do... never underestimate the power of indigenousness. If you don’t believe me look at the Turkish Cypriots and the cruel trick fate has played on them…

Thats where you are wrong we have just as much right as you do, the fact that you have lived here longer with your bastardized blood line means zilch when it comes to rights to survive and live safely on this island. You fucked up big and lost live with it.

[Oracle]

... Also, have you looked into how many mosques were left in South to be pillaged and bombed since 1963?

BigOz .... do you know how many "mosques" were originally Greek Churches which the Ottomans "converted"?

All of them ... (except one built by some other invader, not Otto-Turk) .... and perhaps a few very recent tasteless creations.

[bigOz]

... Also, have you looked into how many mosques were left in South to be pillaged and bombed since 1963?

BigOz .... do you know how many "mosques" were originally Greek Churches which the Ottomans "converted"?

All of them ... (except one built by some other invader, not Otto-Turk) .... and perhaps a few very recent tasteless creations.

Oracle, you will never be one step ahead of this TC. You will always be lagging behind re gumbare!

You are talking about Ottomans converting churches to mosques, so what? I have never been a religious man so I would not give a toss about churches or mosques – one’s got bells and the other has friggin loudspeakers to call people to prayer whilst waking up the dead!

However, at least what the Ottomans did 450 years ago was to convert them to a mosque as a place of worship by adding a minaret or two – it had/has nothing to do with TCs or today’s politics. If you really want to look at it that way, why not talk about what the Greek Orthodox followers have been doing to muslim places of worship in Russia, Serbia, Cyprus and even Greece until not so long ago?

Surely converting them is a much more civilised option than blowing them up or burning them down as the Greek Orthodox followers have been doing actively until recent times!

[Get Real!]

However, at least what the Ottomans did 450 years ago was to convert them to a mosque as a place of worship by adding a minaret or two...

Well, instead of adding a minaret or two, the Greek Cypriots being the more creative of the two have added a variety of things to Mosques such as motorways, airports, car parks, etc, ...talk about Transformers!

[repulsewarrior]

the case is an interesting one because if it is won, then reciprocally it follows that greek cypriots would have an equal right.

but what is more obvious, and more likely, the turkish cypriot plaintiffs will loose, which will lead to their claim that greek cypriots would have their own claims against a turkish authority denied.

you guys are stiff...think outside the box,,,and yet jokes about vasilene and whining are more your style, it seems...

ozzie baby, i'm with you, Cypriots are not Greeks, if anything Greeks are Cypriots, and most certainly Cypriots are not Ottomans, unless you live in a fantasy world where Ottomans were in their glory about eight or nine thousand years ago,,,

[bigOz]

the case is an interesting one because if it is won, then reciprocally it follows that greek cypriots would have an equal right.

but what is more obvious, and more likely, the turkish cypriot plaintiffs will loose, which will lead to their claim that greek cypriots would have their own claims against a turkish authority denied.

you guys are stiff...think outside the box,,,and yet jokes about vasilene and whining are more your style, it seems...

ozzie baby, i'm with you, Cypriots are not Greeks, if anything Greeks are Cypriots, and most certainly Cypriots are not Ottomans, unless you live in a fantasy world where Ottomans were in their glory about eight or nine thousand years ago,,,

Far be it from me to claim TCs are Ottomans! I was simply putting to test the Greekness of the people living on the island put forward by some in this forum, and applying the same mentality to show what the opposing argument would be.

You are absolutely right in your observation that what will apply legally to one, will also apply to the other, irrespective of their ethnic origin. Cypriot people have evolved from a mixture of different ethnic minorities and cultures,who existed for many thousands of years even before the Greeks and Turks found their way here. If countries were to be described as humans, Cyprus would definitely be the biggest whore in this part of the World! Many sea faring people or empires from Europe, Middle East, and North Africa had a few hundred years of rule on it. Cypriots not only have the genetic characteristics of all these, they also eat food that are variations of what these other cultures used to eat, and even diseases that run genetically only in Cypriots (Greek or Turk).

I find it idiotic, to say the least, when someone starts blabbering about Cypriots being "enviable people" because of their Greekness! Cypriots are enviable because of their uniqueness and for their mixed Cypriot culture that comes with delicious food and a great sense of humour!