Cyprus-Forum.com

[Get Real!]

Neo-Turkish Cypriots just don’t cut it with me…

What makes me angry is that most of those Turkish Cypriots against the “TRNC” and what it has evolved into over the decades, are not anti-“TRNC” for the RIGHT reasons such as…

“It was and still is illegal of Turkey to occupy and violate the sovereignty of Cyprus as confirmed by the UN, and it is unethical for Turkey/TCs to forcefully hold onto Cypriot land & properties some three times that of what the Turkish Cypriots actually owned, at the expense of the rightful GC owners.”

…but for purely SELFISH reasons such as:

“Turkish settlers are overrunning the Turkish Cypriots in the north to the point of extinction.”

“Nobody has recognized the “TRNC” thus far and probably nobody ever will so there’s no point…”

“The “TRNC” economy has been mismanaged to the point of bankruptcy so it hasn’t worked out…”

“There are too many foreign criminals and a thriving underworld making me not want to live there…”

Etc, etc, etc…

If moral values are NOT part of the Turkish Cypriot psyche then why the hell would the Greek Cypriots want to bail them out of their predicament which came about as a result of their LOOTING and PILLAGING of GC land, houses, goods, and even GC cultural heritage, abandoned due to the Turkish military invasion THEY ORDERED?

[Oracle]

Neo-Turkish Cypriots just don’t cut it with me…

What makes me angry is that most of those Turkish Cypriots against the “TRNC” and what it has evolved into over the decades, are not anti-“TRNC” for the RIGHT reasons such as…

“It was and still is illegal of Turkey to occupy and violate the sovereignty of Cyprus as confirmed by the UN, and it is unethical for Turkey/TCs to forcefully hold onto Cypriot land & properties some three times that of what the Turkish Cypriots actually owned, at the expense of the rightful GC owners.”

…but for purely SELFISH reasons such as:

“Turkish settlers are overrunning the Turkish Cypriots in the north to the point of extinction.”

“Nobody has recognized the “TRNC” thus far and probably nobody ever will so there’s no point…”

“The “TRNC” economy has been mismanaged to the point of bankruptcy so it hasn’t worked out…”

“There are too many foreign criminals and a thriving underworld making me not want to live there…”

Etc, etc, etc…

If moral values are NOT part of the Turkish Cypriot psyche then why the hell would the Greek Cypriots want to bail them out of their predicament which came about as a result of their LOOTING and PILLAGING of GC land, houses, goods, and even GC cultural heritage, abandoned due to the Turkish military invasion THEY ORDERED?

[CBBB]

Is that a ditto O?

[BirKibrisli]

Neo-Turkish Cypriots just don’t cut it with me…

What makes me angry is that most of those Turkish Cypriots against the “TRNC” and what it has evolved into over the decades, are not anti-“TRNC” for the RIGHT reasons such as…

“It was and still is illegal of Turkey to occupy and violate the sovereignty of Cyprus as confirmed by the UN, and it is unethical for Turkey/TCs to forcefully hold onto Cypriot land & properties some three times that of what the Turkish Cypriots actually owned, at the expense of the rightful GC owners.”

…but for purely SELFISH reasons such as:

“Turkish settlers are overrunning the Turkish Cypriots in the north to the point of extinction.”

“Nobody has recognized the “TRNC” thus far and probably nobody ever will so there’s no point…”

“The “TRNC” economy has been mismanaged to the point of bankruptcy so it hasn’t worked out…”

“There are too many foreign criminals and a thriving underworld making me not want to live there…”

Etc, etc, etc…

If moral values are NOT part of the Turkish Cypriot psyche then why the hell would the Greek Cypriots want to bail them out of their predicament which came about as a result of their LOOTING and PILLAGING of GC land, houses, goods, and even GC cultural heritage, abandoned due to the Turkish military invasion THEY ORDERED?

TCs did not order the Turkish invasion,GR...That was the Britain and the USA...The average TC did no looting or pillaging of GC land...You never seem to remember that there were some 55,000 TCs who lost everything when they moved to the North,and most had to emigrate to put food in their mouths...Before that,in the months and years following the "troubles" of 63,hundreds of TC villages had to be abandoned while their thousands of their occupants took shelter in areas they considered more safe...Most of those people ended up emigrating as well without a cent in compensation...If you want to get angry,get angry at the true culprits of the Cyprus tragedy,not at the long suffering victims now verging on extinction...What you are doing is trying to dehumanise the TCs by your persistent accusations of moral failings,so you can justify sitting back on your arse and doing nothing to help them out of the impossible situation they find themselves... Or worse, preparing the ground for your long-dreamed- of military assault....What you are doing is despicable..You should be ashamed of yourself...

[Oracle]

The TCs did not have to move to be under Turkish occupation, but the promise of free property, and perhaps the fear instilled in them by the over-zealous slaughter of GCs by Turkey, gave them the carrot and the stick that does the trick for donkeys.

[Tim Drayton]

Şener Levent wrote a very powerful peice in Afrika yesterday (10 November). I think it goes some way to answering the points raised in this thread. My translation:

ON THE VERGE OF EXTINCTION

You are a Turkish Cypriot. You live in the north of a divided island in which Turkish soldiers are posted along the divide. You are probably a civil servant. Or a worker. Or you are retired. You are the citizen of a make-believe state which is not recognised by the world. Wherever you travel, you have at least two passports in your pocket. You are also unsure as to how you define your identity. Turkish Cypriot? Turk of Cyprus? Or simply Turk? You are bound by the laws of a make-believe state. You pay your electricity bills, telephone dues, taxes, water money and vehicle licence fees all to this make-believe state. You call your leader – whom nobody in the world addresses as president - “Esteemed president”. You do not have your own money. You use the Turkish lira. You once grew olives. Now you eat imported olives. You had shoemakers. They have closed. You had joiners. They have closed. Your tailors have also closed. Your helva maker of a century’s standing has even locked his door. But you have an abundance of brothels, casinos and non-existent five-star hotels. You get along by selling land plundered from Greek Cypriots and from a variety of rackets conducted in the shade of the bayonet. Even though yours is a citrus land, your very lemons come from Argentina. The imported population has long since outnumbered yours. You do not even encounter one another in the streets any more. You are drowning in a criminal swamp; you sleep with a revolver or a knife under your pillow. All of you live in fear of being burgled at any time. If you should contract a mortal illness you immediately rush to the hospitals and doctors in the south. To avoid being swindled in the north, you shop in the south. You trust neither doctors, nor lawyers, judges, policemen nor politicians in this make-believe state. You may not yet have noticed but you are on the verge of extinction. Those at the top pass on the good news that, “If there is no solution, there will be partition.” They say, “Since the Greek Cypriots greatly fear partition they will have to accept our conditions.” In fact, it is you who really needs to fear partition. If there is partition, the Greek Cypriots will at least own half of Cyprus and will govern themselves as an independent nation. And you? You will continue to eke out an existence here under Turkey’s rule with a so-called parliament and government. You will at no time be the master under your own roof. Here-today-gone-tomorrow officers and ambassadors will rule you. More of you will disappear. Those of you that remain will get up and depart. The population that has taken over the area within the walls will also conquer the area outside the walls. Flags will be planted where the hills have been hollowed out and mosques built where citrus orchards have dried out. Those of you who are too long in the tooth to leave will meet in a few coffee shops frequented only by Cypriots and recall the days of old. Their grandchildren who come from abroad to visit them, unless a customs officer from Hatay creates problems, will negotiate their way through immigration before embracing them and kissing their hands. Those who do not carry a Republic of Turkey passport in their pockets will be denied entry here.
******
If I told you, “There is still time; come and let us rid ourselves of all of these curses” you would not join me. What else can I say?

[T_C]

Oh as if Oracle!

"Promise of free property"...

[CBBB]

Very brave man Mr Levent.

[BirKibrisli]

The TCs did not have to move to be under Turkish occupation, but the promise of free property, and perhaps the fear instilled in them by the over-zealous slaughter of GCs by Turkey, gave them the carrot and the stick that does the trick for donkeys.

I cannot believe that you are totally ignorant of the sad history of Cyprus..
So i think you are simply hate-mongering for some reason you only know...By doing this you are betraying Cyprus and you are betraying your fellow Cypriots....I'd like to think you are not doing it on purpose,to make sure GCs and TCs will never want to live together...But I have been wrong in the past...And I might be wrong again...

[Kikapu]

Şener Levent wrote a very powerful peice in Afrika yesterday (10 November). I think it goes some way to answering the points raised in this thread. My translation:

ON THE VERGE OF EXTINCTION

You are a Turkish Cypriot. You live in the north of a divided island in which Turkish soldiers are posted along the divide. You are probably a civil servant. Or a worker. Or you are retired. You are the citizen of a make-believe state which is not recognised by the world. Wherever you travel, you have at least two passports in your pocket. You are also unsure as to how you define your identity. Turkish Cypriot? Turk of Cyprus? Or simply Turk? You are bound by the laws of a make-believe state. You pay your electricity bills, telephone dues, taxes, water money and vehicle licence fees all to this make-believe state. You call your leader – whom nobody in the world addresses as president - “Esteemed president”. You do not have your own money. You use the Turkish lira. You once grew olives. Now you eat imported olives. You had shoemakers. They have closed. You had joiners. They have closed. Your tailors have also closed. Your helva maker of a century’s standing has even locked his door. But you have an abundance of brothels, casinos and non-existent five-star hotels. You get along by selling land plundered from Greek Cypriots and from a variety of rackets conducted in the shade of the bayonet. Even though yours is a citrus land, your very lemons come from Argentina. The imported population has long since outnumbered yours. You do not even encounter one another in the streets any more. You are drowning in a criminal swamp; you sleep with a revolver or a knife under your pillow. All of you live in fear of being burgled at any time. If you should contract a mortal illness you immediately rush to the hospitals and doctors in the south. To avoid being swindled in the north, you shop in the south. You trust neither doctors, nor lawyers, judges, policemen nor politicians in this make-believe state. You may not yet have noticed but you are on the verge of extinction. Those at the top pass on the good news that, “If there is no solution, there will be partition.” They say, “Since the Greek Cypriots greatly fear partition they will have to accept our conditions.” In fact, it is you who really needs to fear partition. If there is partition, the Greek Cypriots will at least own half of Cyprus and will govern themselves as an independent nation. And you? You will continue to eke out an existence here under Turkey’s rule with a so-called parliament and government. You will at no time be the master under your own roof. Here-today-gone-tomorrow officers and ambassadors will rule you. More of you will disappear. Those of you that remain will get up and depart. The population that has taken over the area within the walls will also conquer the area outside the walls. Flags will be planted where the hills have been hollowed out and mosques built where citrus orchards have dried out. Those of you who are too long in the tooth to leave will meet in a few coffee shops frequented only by Cypriots and recall the days of old. Their grandchildren who come from abroad to visit them, unless a customs officer from Hatay creates problems, will negotiate their way through immigration before embracing them and kissing their hands. Those who do not carry a Republic of Turkey passport in their pockets will be denied entry here.
******
If I told you, “There is still time; come and let us rid ourselves of all of these curses” you would not join me. What else can I say?

Thanks for the above, Tim.

My brother-in-law and sister who have been building a home in the north (slowly) for their eventual retirement were also complaining for the first time about the settlers. They have finally woken up to the reality, that the north is no longer the TC "country" that they were made to believe who would become the masters of their own destiny. NO, no, no, they are not happy at all, specially with the high cost of everything, specially for the material to finish off the house, but waiting until the last minute to put in the doors and windows so that they will not be stolen when no one is living in it. I'm not even so sure they would even want to retire in Cyprus when the time comes as their attitude keeps changing from only a year ago. They too want a settlement, but are brainwashed to accept only what the Annan plan offered or a BBF version which is very close to a partition for all intensive purposes, which is what they have today, but only legalised, therefore nothing much will change for the future for the TC's unless a True Democracy and a True Federation is agreed on, but they have yet to realise this aspect at all. Their love for the settlers is gone, and the fact that they rejected a request from a settler to marry their daughter (my niece) this summer, speaks volumes.