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Neo-Turkish Cypriots just don’t cut it with me…

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby DT. » Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:07 pm

iceman wrote:
Kifeas wrote:
iceman wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:Şener Levent wrote a very powerful peice in Afrika yesterday (10 November). I think it goes some way to answering the points raised in this thread. My translation:

ON THE VERGE OF EXTINCTION

You are a Turkish Cypriot. You live in the north of a divided island in which Turkish soldiers are posted along the divide. You are probably a civil servant. Or a worker. Or you are retired. You are the citizen of a make-believe state which is not recognised by the world. Wherever you travel, you have at least two passports in your pocket. You are also unsure as to how you define your identity. Turkish Cypriot? Turk of Cyprus? Or simply Turk? You are bound by the laws of a make-believe state. You pay your electricity bills, telephone dues, taxes, water money and vehicle licence fees all to this make-believe state. You call your leader – whom nobody in the world addresses as president - “Esteemed president”. You do not have your own money. You use the Turkish lira. You once grew olives. Now you eat imported olives. You had shoemakers. They have closed. You had joiners. They have closed. Your tailors have also closed. Your helva maker of a century’s standing has even locked his door. But you have an abundance of brothels, casinos and non-existent five-star hotels. You get along by selling land plundered from Greek Cypriots and from a variety of rackets conducted in the shade of the bayonet. Even though yours is a citrus land, your very lemons come from Argentina. The imported population has long since outnumbered yours. You do not even encounter one another in the streets any more. You are drowning in a criminal swamp; you sleep with a revolver or a knife under your pillow. All of you live in fear of being burgled at any time. If you should contract a mortal illness you immediately rush to the hospitals and doctors in the south. To avoid being swindled in the north, you shop in the south. You trust neither doctors, nor lawyers, judges, policemen nor politicians in this make-believe state. You may not yet have noticed but you are on the verge of extinction. Those at the top pass on the good news that, “If there is no solution, there will be partition.” They say, “Since the Greek Cypriots greatly fear partition they will have to accept our conditions.” In fact, it is you who really needs to fear partition. If there is partition, the Greek Cypriots will at least own half of Cyprus and will govern themselves as an independent nation. And you? You will continue to eke out an existence here under Turkey’s rule with a so-called parliament and government. You will at no time be the master under your own roof. Here-today-gone-tomorrow officers and ambassadors will rule you. More of you will disappear. Those of you that remain will get up and depart. The population that has taken over the area within the walls will also conquer the area outside the walls. Flags will be planted where the hills have been hollowed out and mosques built where citrus orchards have dried out. Those of you who are too long in the tooth to leave will meet in a few coffee shops frequented only by Cypriots and recall the days of old. Their grandchildren who come from abroad to visit them, unless a customs officer from Hatay creates problems, will negotiate their way through immigration before embracing them and kissing their hands. Those who do not carry a Republic of Turkey passport in their pockets will be denied entry here.
******
If I told you, “There is still time; come and let us rid ourselves of all of these curses” you would not join me. What else can I say?


yet another excellent article by Levent,describing the sad reality in the north.!!


Iceman (and all other TCs sharing the same view,) if the above article by Levent is an excellent one (and I do not know better than you do,) then why aren't you all TCs out in the streets against your elected leader Talat, to push him to truly work for a solution of the Cyprus issue? Or, aren't you all aware of what kind of illogical, outrageously gross, unacceptable and illegitimate positions he is placing on the table, in-front of Christofias, that little they differ from those of the Denktash's 30 year long era? Are you aware of what your leader is asking at the negotiations? If not, let me help you, but before that I would like to let you know that his (Talat’s) rhetoric -and more so his positions and terms, have managed to make partition for the majority of the GCs sounding more favorable than his idea of “re-unification!”


Personally,i don't believe he is in a position to ask anything for his own people..and unfortunately there isn't enough Turkish Cypriots left who share my views to make any difference..


its a lost cause. I used to think we were condemned due to leaders with no vision. I now understand that even if we did have some which we don't, it would still be a lost cause.
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Postby Get Real! » Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:24 pm

Nikitas wrote:Sener Levent is the best journalist in Cyprus, actually he is good anywhere.

Is that because he is one of the few Turkish Cypriots along with Chaglar who are wise enough to predict the bleak future of their people and calls upon them to take a different self-serving direction? Does that make him a good journalist or a good Turkish Cypriot?

As to the original theme of this thread, the response is who the hell cares what the motives of the TCs are. They may be moral, they maybe practical, even cynical and self serving.

You want to form a “partnership” with a people whose motives are at best controversial? Good luck sustaining it.

The idea is that we want to get rid of settlers and the Turkish army and have an independent nation where we feel we belong. If the TCs agree then the motives are a secondary matter.

How short-sighted you are here because you then proceed and say...

What worries me, as the leaks from the talks tend to show, is that Talat is behaving more and more like a broker for Turkey than an elected president of the TC community.

First "who cares about their motives" and then post this? :?

This must be your absolute worst post to date. Utterly thoughtless... unlike you!

I might remind you that all it takes is for Turkey to convince another TC brainless thug to plant a bomb on TC property as happened in the past and your “partnership” is out of the window…

Unless Turkish Cypriots as a whole, become a LAW ABIDING people with a heightened sense of right from wrong, an appreciation of democratic values, and an instilled sense of EARNING their way in life as opposed to their seemingly genetic pirate mentality, I can’t see ANY “partnership” surviving.
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Postby Medman » Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:33 pm

As usual people are making out on this forum that their own shit don't stink! Some past posters be it GC or TC have rightly pointed out that some people are only interested in pointing out certain dates or events and trying to rewrite history to suit their own means. I've even been called a racist on here, well whoopy doo! Thanks to those GC's who stuck up for the TC's of Lefkara when the Greek army turned up in 1964 and forced them out. I respect those people who had morals and wanted a Cyprus free of interference. They told the Greek forces where to stick it and were punished later. Fartsuckers!
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Re: Neo-Turkish Cypriots just don’t cut it with me…

Postby BirKibrisli » Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:56 am

Get Real! wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:TCs did not order the Turkish invasion,GR...That was the Britain and the USA...

Turkish Cypriot leader Rauf R. Denktas would later recall:

“In the morning I was in my office as usual at 7.30 and at 8.30 shots started to be fired from the Greek quarter and particles of bombs falling on my roof. Then we heard that there was a coup and Makarios [4] was dead. We contacted the Turkish government immediately saying that this was a takeover by Greece and all our safety, the lives of our people, were endangered and Turkey should honor her treaty obligations. Our concern was to bring Turkey to our aid, otherwise we were finished. [5]”

http://isanet.ccit.arizona.edu/noarchive/cyprus.html

The average TC did no looting or pillaging of GC land...

Not only did TCs loot and pillage all that I described earlier but they also boarded Turkish tanks and other vehicles acting as guides for the drivers and even carried Turkish military equipment on their backs for them while Denktash was making jubilant announcements on Bayrak radio.

You never seem to remember that there were some 55,000 TCs who lost everything when they moved to the North,and most had to emigrate to put food in their mouths...Before that,in the months and years following the "troubles" of 63,hundreds of TC villages had to be abandoned while their thousands of their occupants took shelter in areas they considered more safe...Most of those people ended up emigrating as well without a cent in compensation...If you want to get angry,get angry at the true culprits of the Cyprus tragedy,not at the long suffering victims now verging on extinction...What you are doing is trying to dehumanise the TCs by your persistent accusations of moral failings,so you can justify sitting back on your arse and doing nothing to help them out of the impossible situation they find themselves... Or worse, preparing the ground for your long-dreamed- of military assault....What you are doing is despicable..You should be ashamed of yourself... :evil:

I expected nothing less from the arch-denier of TC responsibility!

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/cyprus18062.html

Sener pretty much repeats what I posted back then which you denied!

If anyone it is YOU who should be ashamed of himself... LIAR! Do you honestly think I need YOU or anyone else to tell me what happened from July 20th onwards when I was caught right in the middle of it you fool?


I can indeed be a fool at times GR,but if your understanding of the Cyprus
Problem comes down to "Denktash Ordered Turkey to Invade and they DID" you are a much bigger fool than I am...You should in fact be locked up and not allowed to insult anyone with your simplistic,hateful,disgusting attacks on your compatriots whose pain and suffering were at least as big as yours...

Your problem might indeed be that you were caught in the middle of it back in 1974,and you are suffering from PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder)...One symptom of this mental illness is that the sufferer has seriouly distorted cognitive functions...Another symptom is irrational,grandoise plans and ambitions when going though a manic state...All I want to tell you now is get yourself to a competent psychiatrist as soon as possible...You are on the verge of blowing your mind up...The bill is in the mail,by the way.. :wink: :)
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Postby humanist » Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:00 am

Perhaps somone ought to invite Levent to become the President of the trnc only then will we see a united Cyprus. Then again he may not live to see another day, if the turkish generals have anything to do with it.
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Postby DT. » Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:05 am

humanist wrote:Perhaps somone ought to invite Levent to become the President of the trnc only then will we see a united Cyprus. Then again he may not live to see another day, if the turkish generals have anything to do with it.


You would then have the following twilight zone scenarion where the TC leader would be requesting one unitary state with democracy and the gutless GC president would still be banging on about bi-communal and bi-zonal so as not to upset the process in place.
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Postby Tim Drayton » Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:06 am

Kikapu wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:
Welcome back from kicking non-Con ass. I am glad your guy got in and, so it seems, most of the world feels the same way.


Thanks for the "welcome back", Tim.

Yes, we did get our guy in. I hope he'll really make a difference.

I'm sure you meant to say, "kicking the Neo-Cons ass", which is what we did. :lol:


That's what I did mean to say, and this indeed is what you did. Must be a Freudian slip, and one which I am attempting to analyse.
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Postby humanist » Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:16 am

Yes the God damned process in place. What is with that???
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Postby DT. » Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:38 am

humanist wrote:Yes the God damned process in place. What is with that???


That, my friend humanist, means we're talking so that the others can see us talking and not cause we think we're gonna get anywhere.
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Postby Kifeas » Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:40 am

Oracle wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:Şener Levent wrote a very powerful peice in Afrika yesterday (10 November). I think it goes some way to answering the points raised in this thread. My translation:

ON THE VERGE OF EXTINCTION

You are a Turkish Cypriot. You live in the north of a divided island in which Turkish soldiers are posted along the divide. You are probably a civil servant. Or a worker. Or you are retired. You are the citizen of a make-believe state which is not recognised by the world. Wherever you travel, you have at least two passports in your pocket. You are also unsure as to how you define your identity. Turkish Cypriot? Turk of Cyprus? Or simply Turk? You are bound by the laws of a make-believe state. You pay your electricity bills, telephone dues, taxes, water money and vehicle licence fees all to this make-believe state. You call your leader – whom nobody in the world addresses as president - “Esteemed president”. You do not have your own money. You use the Turkish lira. You once grew olives. Now you eat imported olives. You had shoemakers. They have closed. You had joiners. They have closed. Your tailors have also closed. Your helva maker of a century’s standing has even locked his door. But you have an abundance of brothels, casinos and non-existent five-star hotels. You get along by selling land plundered from Greek Cypriots and from a variety of rackets conducted in the shade of the bayonet. Even though yours is a citrus land, your very lemons come from Argentina. The imported population has long since outnumbered yours. You do not even encounter one another in the streets any more. You are drowning in a criminal swamp; you sleep with a revolver or a knife under your pillow. All of you live in fear of being burgled at any time. If you should contract a mortal illness you immediately rush to the hospitals and doctors in the south. To avoid being swindled in the north, you shop in the south. You trust neither doctors, nor lawyers, judges, policemen nor politicians in this make-believe state. You may not yet have noticed but you are on the verge of extinction. Those at the top pass on the good news that, “If there is no solution, there will be partition.” They say, “Since the Greek Cypriots greatly fear partition they will have to accept our conditions.” In fact, it is you who really needs to fear partition. If there is partition, the Greek Cypriots will at least own half of Cyprus and will govern themselves as an independent nation. And you? You will continue to eke out an existence here under Turkey’s rule with a so-called parliament and government. You will at no time be the master under your own roof. Here-today-gone-tomorrow officers and ambassadors will rule you. More of you will disappear. Those of you that remain will get up and depart. The population that has taken over the area within the walls will also conquer the area outside the walls. Flags will be planted where the hills have been hollowed out and mosques built where citrus orchards have dried out. Those of you who are too long in the tooth to leave will meet in a few coffee shops frequented only by Cypriots and recall the days of old. Their grandchildren who come from abroad to visit them, unless a customs officer from Hatay creates problems, will negotiate their way through immigration before embracing them and kissing their hands. Those who do not carry a Republic of Turkey passport in their pockets will be denied entry here.
******
If I told you, “There is still time; come and let us rid ourselves of all of these curses” you would not join me. What else can I say?


Sener Levent is guilty of that which GR! has condemned the TCs. He has made a long list of what is wrong in the "trnc" and how miserable the TCs are now with "their" lot, but at no point addresses the lack of a moral code of conduct.

All one can say is Kismet, for the wrongs they have done to the GCs, and until they do the just thing and give back what they stole, they deserve nothing more than to stew!


Oracle, I just want to let you know that I feel only spastic and neurotic arrogant individuals can possibly come up with posts like yours. That's all I want to say.
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