Cyprus-Forum.com

[Tim Drayton]

Şener Levent wrote a very powerful peice in Afrika yesterday (10 November). I think it goes some way to answering the points raised in this thread. My translation:

ON THE VERGE OF EXTINCTION

You are a Turkish Cypriot. You live in the north of a divided island in which Turkish soldiers are posted along the divide. You are probably a civil servant. Or a worker. Or you are retired. You are the citizen of a make-believe state which is not recognised by the world. Wherever you travel, you have at least two passports in your pocket. You are also unsure as to how you define your identity. Turkish Cypriot? Turk of Cyprus? Or simply Turk? You are bound by the laws of a make-believe state. You pay your electricity bills, telephone dues, taxes, water money and vehicle licence fees all to this make-believe state. You call your leader – whom nobody in the world addresses as president - “Esteemed president”. You do not have your own money. You use the Turkish lira. You once grew olives. Now you eat imported olives. You had shoemakers. They have closed. You had joiners. They have closed. Your tailors have also closed. Your helva maker of a century’s standing has even locked his door. But you have an abundance of brothels, casinos and non-existent five-star hotels. You get along by selling land plundered from Greek Cypriots and from a variety of rackets conducted in the shade of the bayonet. Even though yours is a citrus land, your very lemons come from Argentina. The imported population has long since outnumbered yours. You do not even encounter one another in the streets any more. You are drowning in a criminal swamp; you sleep with a revolver or a knife under your pillow. All of you live in fear of being burgled at any time. If you should contract a mortal illness you immediately rush to the hospitals and doctors in the south. To avoid being swindled in the north, you shop in the south. You trust neither doctors, nor lawyers, judges, policemen nor politicians in this make-believe state. You may not yet have noticed but you are on the verge of extinction. Those at the top pass on the good news that, “If there is no solution, there will be partition.” They say, “Since the Greek Cypriots greatly fear partition they will have to accept our conditions.” In fact, it is you who really needs to fear partition. If there is partition, the Greek Cypriots will at least own half of Cyprus and will govern themselves as an independent nation. And you? You will continue to eke out an existence here under Turkey’s rule with a so-called parliament and government. You will at no time be the master under your own roof. Here-today-gone-tomorrow officers and ambassadors will rule you. More of you will disappear. Those of you that remain will get up and depart. The population that has taken over the area within the walls will also conquer the area outside the walls. Flags will be planted where the hills have been hollowed out and mosques built where citrus orchards have dried out. Those of you who are too long in the tooth to leave will meet in a few coffee shops frequented only by Cypriots and recall the days of old. Their grandchildren who come from abroad to visit them, unless a customs officer from Hatay creates problems, will negotiate their way through immigration before embracing them and kissing their hands. Those who do not carry a Republic of Turkey passport in their pockets will be denied entry here.
******
If I told you, “There is still time; come and let us rid ourselves of all of these curses” you would not join me. What else can I say?

Thanks for the above, Tim.

My brother-in-law and sister who have been building a home in the north (slowly) for their eventual retirement were also complaining for the first time about the settlers. They have finally woken up to the reality, that the north is no longer the TC "country" that they were made to believe who would become the masters of their own destiny. NO, no, no, they are not happy at all, specially with the high cost of everything, specially for the material to finish off the house, but waiting until the last minute to put in the doors and windows so that they will not be stolen when no one is living in it. I'm not even so sure they would even want to retire in Cyprus when the time comes as their attitude keeps changing from only a year ago. They too want a settlement, but are brainwashed to accept only what the Annan plan offered or a BBF version which is very close to a partition for all intensive purposes, which is what they have today, but only legalised, therefore nothing much will change for the future for the TC's unless a True Democracy and a True Federation is agreed on, but they have yet to realise this aspect at all. Their love for the settlers is gone, and the fact that they rejected a request from a settler to marry their daughter (my niece) this summer, speaks volumes.

Welcome back from kicking non-Con ass. I am glad your guy got in and, so it seems, most of the world feels the same way.

[Get Real!]

TCs did not order the Turkish invasion,GR...That was the Britain and the USA...

Turkish Cypriot leader Rauf R. Denktas would later recall:

“In the morning I was in my office as usual at 7.30 and at 8.30 shots started to be fired from the Greek quarter and particles of bombs falling on my roof. Then we heard that there was a coup and Makarios [4] was dead. We contacted the Turkish government immediately saying that this was a takeover by Greece and all our safety, the lives of our people, were endangered and Turkey should honor her treaty obligations. Our concern was to bring Turkey to our aid, otherwise we were finished. [5]”

http://isanet.ccit.arizona.edu/noarchive/cyprus.html

The average TC did no looting or pillaging of GC land...

Not only did TCs loot and pillage all that I described earlier but they also boarded Turkish tanks and other vehicles acting as guides for the drivers and even carried Turkish military equipment on their backs for them while Denktash was making jubilant announcements on Bayrak radio.

You never seem to remember that there were some 55,000 TCs who lost everything when they moved to the North,and most had to emigrate to put food in their mouths...Before that,in the months and years following the "troubles" of 63,hundreds of TC villages had to be abandoned while their thousands of their occupants took shelter in areas they considered more safe...Most of those people ended up emigrating as well without a cent in compensation...If you want to get angry,get angry at the true culprits of the Cyprus tragedy,not at the long suffering victims now verging on extinction...What you are doing is trying to dehumanise the TCs by your persistent accusations of moral failings,so you can justify sitting back on your arse and doing nothing to help them out of the impossible situation they find themselves... Or worse, preparing the ground for your long-dreamed- of military assault....What you are doing is despicable..You should be ashamed of yourself...

I expected nothing less from the arch-denier of TC responsibility!

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/cyprus18062.html

Sener pretty much repeats what I posted back then which you denied!

If anyone it is YOU who should be ashamed of himself... LIAR! Do you honestly think I need YOU or anyone else to tell me what happened from July 20th onwards when I was caught right in the middle of it you fool?

[iceman]

Şener Levent wrote a very powerful peice in Afrika yesterday (10 November). I think it goes some way to answering the points raised in this thread. My translation:

ON THE VERGE OF EXTINCTION

You are a Turkish Cypriot. You live in the north of a divided island in which Turkish soldiers are posted along the divide. You are probably a civil servant. Or a worker. Or you are retired. You are the citizen of a make-believe state which is not recognised by the world. Wherever you travel, you have at least two passports in your pocket. You are also unsure as to how you define your identity. Turkish Cypriot? Turk of Cyprus? Or simply Turk? You are bound by the laws of a make-believe state. You pay your electricity bills, telephone dues, taxes, water money and vehicle licence fees all to this make-believe state. You call your leader – whom nobody in the world addresses as president - “Esteemed president”. You do not have your own money. You use the Turkish lira. You once grew olives. Now you eat imported olives. You had shoemakers. They have closed. You had joiners. They have closed. Your tailors have also closed. Your helva maker of a century’s standing has even locked his door. But you have an abundance of brothels, casinos and non-existent five-star hotels. You get along by selling land plundered from Greek Cypriots and from a variety of rackets conducted in the shade of the bayonet. Even though yours is a citrus land, your very lemons come from Argentina. The imported population has long since outnumbered yours. You do not even encounter one another in the streets any more. You are drowning in a criminal swamp; you sleep with a revolver or a knife under your pillow. All of you live in fear of being burgled at any time. If you should contract a mortal illness you immediately rush to the hospitals and doctors in the south. To avoid being swindled in the north, you shop in the south. You trust neither doctors, nor lawyers, judges, policemen nor politicians in this make-believe state. You may not yet have noticed but you are on the verge of extinction. Those at the top pass on the good news that, “If there is no solution, there will be partition.” They say, “Since the Greek Cypriots greatly fear partition they will have to accept our conditions.” In fact, it is you who really needs to fear partition. If there is partition, the Greek Cypriots will at least own half of Cyprus and will govern themselves as an independent nation. And you? You will continue to eke out an existence here under Turkey’s rule with a so-called parliament and government. You will at no time be the master under your own roof. Here-today-gone-tomorrow officers and ambassadors will rule you. More of you will disappear. Those of you that remain will get up and depart. The population that has taken over the area within the walls will also conquer the area outside the walls. Flags will be planted where the hills have been hollowed out and mosques built where citrus orchards have dried out. Those of you who are too long in the tooth to leave will meet in a few coffee shops frequented only by Cypriots and recall the days of old. Their grandchildren who come from abroad to visit them, unless a customs officer from Hatay creates problems, will negotiate their way through immigration before embracing them and kissing their hands. Those who do not carry a Republic of Turkey passport in their pockets will be denied entry here.
******
If I told you, “There is still time; come and let us rid ourselves of all of these curses” you would not join me. What else can I say?

yet another excellent article by Levent,describing the sad reality in the north.!!

[Nikitas]

Sener Levent is the best journalist in Cyprus, actually he is good anywhere.

As to the original theme of this thread, the response is who the hell cares what the motives of the TCs are. They may be moral, they maybe practical, even cynical and self serving. The idea is that we want to get rid of settlers and the Turkish army and have an independent nation where we feel we belong. If the TCs agree then the motives are a secondary matter.

What worries me, as the leaks from the talks tend to show, is that Talat is behaving more and more like a broker for Turkey than an elected president of the TC community. The latest demands that Cyprus should not have marine territory as decreed by the Law of the Sea, in other words all the continental shelf and marine zone of Cyprus should be handed to Turkey, proves his motives and goals. This is not the way to build a nation.

This upping of the ante at every level of talks might eventually lead the GC side to bite the bullet and give up, accept partition and the hell with it. I wonder if any TC official has seriously thought of the consequences. Or perhaps they only allow those that want these consequences to reach any meaningful position.

[Kikapu]

Welcome back from kicking non-Con ass. I am glad your guy got in and, so it seems, most of the world feels the same way.

Thanks for the "welcome back", Tim.

Yes, we did get our guy in. I hope he'll really make a difference.

I'm sure you meant to say, "kicking the Neo-Cons ass", which is what we did.

[Kifeas]

Şener Levent wrote a very powerful peice in Afrika yesterday (10 November). I think it goes some way to answering the points raised in this thread. My translation:

ON THE VERGE OF EXTINCTION

You are a Turkish Cypriot. You live in the north of a divided island in which Turkish soldiers are posted along the divide. You are probably a civil servant. Or a worker. Or you are retired. You are the citizen of a make-believe state which is not recognised by the world. Wherever you travel, you have at least two passports in your pocket. You are also unsure as to how you define your identity. Turkish Cypriot? Turk of Cyprus? Or simply Turk? You are bound by the laws of a make-believe state. You pay your electricity bills, telephone dues, taxes, water money and vehicle licence fees all to this make-believe state. You call your leader – whom nobody in the world addresses as president - “Esteemed president”. You do not have your own money. You use the Turkish lira. You once grew olives. Now you eat imported olives. You had shoemakers. They have closed. You had joiners. They have closed. Your tailors have also closed. Your helva maker of a century’s standing has even locked his door. But you have an abundance of brothels, casinos and non-existent five-star hotels. You get along by selling land plundered from Greek Cypriots and from a variety of rackets conducted in the shade of the bayonet. Even though yours is a citrus land, your very lemons come from Argentina. The imported population has long since outnumbered yours. You do not even encounter one another in the streets any more. You are drowning in a criminal swamp; you sleep with a revolver or a knife under your pillow. All of you live in fear of being burgled at any time. If you should contract a mortal illness you immediately rush to the hospitals and doctors in the south. To avoid being swindled in the north, you shop in the south. You trust neither doctors, nor lawyers, judges, policemen nor politicians in this make-believe state. You may not yet have noticed but you are on the verge of extinction. Those at the top pass on the good news that, “If there is no solution, there will be partition.” They say, “Since the Greek Cypriots greatly fear partition they will have to accept our conditions.” In fact, it is you who really needs to fear partition. If there is partition, the Greek Cypriots will at least own half of Cyprus and will govern themselves as an independent nation. And you? You will continue to eke out an existence here under Turkey’s rule with a so-called parliament and government. You will at no time be the master under your own roof. Here-today-gone-tomorrow officers and ambassadors will rule you. More of you will disappear. Those of you that remain will get up and depart. The population that has taken over the area within the walls will also conquer the area outside the walls. Flags will be planted where the hills have been hollowed out and mosques built where citrus orchards have dried out. Those of you who are too long in the tooth to leave will meet in a few coffee shops frequented only by Cypriots and recall the days of old. Their grandchildren who come from abroad to visit them, unless a customs officer from Hatay creates problems, will negotiate their way through immigration before embracing them and kissing their hands. Those who do not carry a Republic of Turkey passport in their pockets will be denied entry here.
******
If I told you, “There is still time; come and let us rid ourselves of all of these curses” you would not join me. What else can I say?

yet another excellent article by Levent,describing the sad reality in the north.!!

Iceman (and all other TCs sharing the same view,) if the above article by Levent is an excellent one (and I do not know better than you do,) then why aren't you all TCs out in the streets against your elected leader Talat, to push him to truly work for a solution of the Cyprus issue? Or, aren't you all aware of what kind of illogical, outrageously gross, unacceptable and illegitimate positions he is placing on the table, in-front of Christofias, that little they differ from those of the Denktash's 30 year long era? Are you aware of what your leader is asking at the negotiations? If not, let me help you, but before that I would like to let you know that his (Talat’s) rhetoric -and more so his positions and terms, have managed to make partition for the majority of the GCs sounding more favorable than his idea of “re-unification!”

[iceman]

Şener Levent wrote a very powerful peice in Afrika yesterday (10 November). I think it goes some way to answering the points raised in this thread. My translation:

ON THE VERGE OF EXTINCTION

You are a Turkish Cypriot. You live in the north of a divided island in which Turkish soldiers are posted along the divide. You are probably a civil servant. Or a worker. Or you are retired. You are the citizen of a make-believe state which is not recognised by the world. Wherever you travel, you have at least two passports in your pocket. You are also unsure as to how you define your identity. Turkish Cypriot? Turk of Cyprus? Or simply Turk? You are bound by the laws of a make-believe state. You pay your electricity bills, telephone dues, taxes, water money and vehicle licence fees all to this make-believe state. You call your leader – whom nobody in the world addresses as president - “Esteemed president”. You do not have your own money. You use the Turkish lira. You once grew olives. Now you eat imported olives. You had shoemakers. They have closed. You had joiners. They have closed. Your tailors have also closed. Your helva maker of a century’s standing has even locked his door. But you have an abundance of brothels, casinos and non-existent five-star hotels. You get along by selling land plundered from Greek Cypriots and from a variety of rackets conducted in the shade of the bayonet. Even though yours is a citrus land, your very lemons come from Argentina. The imported population has long since outnumbered yours. You do not even encounter one another in the streets any more. You are drowning in a criminal swamp; you sleep with a revolver or a knife under your pillow. All of you live in fear of being burgled at any time. If you should contract a mortal illness you immediately rush to the hospitals and doctors in the south. To avoid being swindled in the north, you shop in the south. You trust neither doctors, nor lawyers, judges, policemen nor politicians in this make-believe state. You may not yet have noticed but you are on the verge of extinction. Those at the top pass on the good news that, “If there is no solution, there will be partition.” They say, “Since the Greek Cypriots greatly fear partition they will have to accept our conditions.” In fact, it is you who really needs to fear partition. If there is partition, the Greek Cypriots will at least own half of Cyprus and will govern themselves as an independent nation. And you? You will continue to eke out an existence here under Turkey’s rule with a so-called parliament and government. You will at no time be the master under your own roof. Here-today-gone-tomorrow officers and ambassadors will rule you. More of you will disappear. Those of you that remain will get up and depart. The population that has taken over the area within the walls will also conquer the area outside the walls. Flags will be planted where the hills have been hollowed out and mosques built where citrus orchards have dried out. Those of you who are too long in the tooth to leave will meet in a few coffee shops frequented only by Cypriots and recall the days of old. Their grandchildren who come from abroad to visit them, unless a customs officer from Hatay creates problems, will negotiate their way through immigration before embracing them and kissing their hands. Those who do not carry a Republic of Turkey passport in their pockets will be denied entry here.
******
If I told you, “There is still time; come and let us rid ourselves of all of these curses” you would not join me. What else can I say?

yet another excellent article by Levent,describing the sad reality in the north.!!

Iceman (and all other TCs sharing the same view,) if the above article by Levent is an excellent one (and I do not know better than you do,) then why aren't you all TCs out in the streets against your elected leader Talat, to push him to truly work for a solution of the Cyprus issue? Or, aren't you all aware of what kind of illogical, outrageously gross, unacceptable and illegitimate positions he is placing on the table, in-front of Christofias, that little they differ from those of the Denktash's 30 year long era? Are you aware of what your leader is asking at the negotiations? If not, let me help you, but before that I would like to let you know that his (Talat’s) rhetoric -and more so his positions and terms, have managed to make partition for the majority of the GCs sounding more favorable than his idea of “re-unification!”

Personally,i don't believe he is in a position to ask anything for his own people..and unfortunately there isn't enough Turkish Cypriots left who share my views to make any difference..

[Oracle]

The TCs did not have to move to be under Turkish occupation, but the promise of free property, and perhaps the fear instilled in them by the over-zealous slaughter of GCs by Turkey, gave them the carrot and the stick that does the trick for donkeys.

I cannot believe that you are totally ignorant of the sad history of Cyprus..
So i think you are simply hate-mongering for some reason you only know...By doing this you are betraying Cyprus and you are betraying your fellow Cypriots....I'd like to think you are not doing it on purpose,to make sure GCs and TCs will never want to live together...But I have been wrong in the past...And I might be wrong again...

Actions speak louder than words Bir, and it is the actions of Turkey which generate hatred not a few words of protest by me. Otherwise are you going to tell me that the reams and reams of complaints about their UN violations are hate-mongering by the UN forces? Are the countless Amnesty International reports against the actions of Turkey mere hate-mongering by Amnesty?

No there is plenty of hate for Turkey's actions and not because of anything I say .... but because of what millions of people have suffered under their threats and savagery!

[Oracle]

As to the original theme of this thread, the response is who the hell cares what the motives of the TCs are...

I think those people trying to find a solution need to know whether they are wasting their time by waving the illegalities, UN violations and Human Rights abuses at the Turk-TCs, if in the end they have no sense of morality for these to make a difference.

[Oracle]

Şener Levent wrote a very powerful peice in Afrika yesterday (10 November). I think it goes some way to answering the points raised in this thread. My translation:

ON THE VERGE OF EXTINCTION

You are a Turkish Cypriot. You live in the north of a divided island in which Turkish soldiers are posted along the divide. You are probably a civil servant. Or a worker. Or you are retired. You are the citizen of a make-believe state which is not recognised by the world. Wherever you travel, you have at least two passports in your pocket. You are also unsure as to how you define your identity. Turkish Cypriot? Turk of Cyprus? Or simply Turk? You are bound by the laws of a make-believe state. You pay your electricity bills, telephone dues, taxes, water money and vehicle licence fees all to this make-believe state. You call your leader – whom nobody in the world addresses as president - “Esteemed president”. You do not have your own money. You use the Turkish lira. You once grew olives. Now you eat imported olives. You had shoemakers. They have closed. You had joiners. They have closed. Your tailors have also closed. Your helva maker of a century’s standing has even locked his door. But you have an abundance of brothels, casinos and non-existent five-star hotels. You get along by selling land plundered from Greek Cypriots and from a variety of rackets conducted in the shade of the bayonet. Even though yours is a citrus land, your very lemons come from Argentina. The imported population has long since outnumbered yours. You do not even encounter one another in the streets any more. You are drowning in a criminal swamp; you sleep with a revolver or a knife under your pillow. All of you live in fear of being burgled at any time. If you should contract a mortal illness you immediately rush to the hospitals and doctors in the south. To avoid being swindled in the north, you shop in the south. You trust neither doctors, nor lawyers, judges, policemen nor politicians in this make-believe state. You may not yet have noticed but you are on the verge of extinction. Those at the top pass on the good news that, “If there is no solution, there will be partition.” They say, “Since the Greek Cypriots greatly fear partition they will have to accept our conditions.” In fact, it is you who really needs to fear partition. If there is partition, the Greek Cypriots will at least own half of Cyprus and will govern themselves as an independent nation. And you? You will continue to eke out an existence here under Turkey’s rule with a so-called parliament and government. You will at no time be the master under your own roof. Here-today-gone-tomorrow officers and ambassadors will rule you. More of you will disappear. Those of you that remain will get up and depart. The population that has taken over the area within the walls will also conquer the area outside the walls. Flags will be planted where the hills have been hollowed out and mosques built where citrus orchards have dried out. Those of you who are too long in the tooth to leave will meet in a few coffee shops frequented only by Cypriots and recall the days of old. Their grandchildren who come from abroad to visit them, unless a customs officer from Hatay creates problems, will negotiate their way through immigration before embracing them and kissing their hands. Those who do not carry a Republic of Turkey passport in their pockets will be denied entry here.
******
If I told you, “There is still time; come and let us rid ourselves of all of these curses” you would not join me. What else can I say?

Sener Levent is guilty of that which GR! has condemned the TCs. He has made a long list of what is wrong in the "trnc" and how miserable the TCs are now with "their" lot, but at no point addresses the lack of a moral code of conduct.

All one can say is Kismet, for the wrongs they have done to the GCs, and until they do the just thing and give back what they stole, they deserve nothing more than to stew!