Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kifeas]

And in turn your neighbor will want some Greek guarantees in case you knock on his door and voila! We have armies from all THREE guarantor powers on the island but no army of our own.

Why is the TC police not enough to protect you? You do not trust them? You think the mainland Turks are more capable and trustworthy than TC police in a bizonal system? Are you joking with us?

No Nikitas, I'm not joking. Our police force is as incompetent as our government. In all seriousness, Turkeys power of intervention is in the 1960 constitution and so it should be.

If the GCs have no ulterior motive and will never repeat its mistakes then why should it worry with Turkeys power to intervene. If they are never given reason to then they wont, they cant, they dare not. Its really that simple.

Misunderestimated, I would like to ask you a few questions. The first one, what is the reason you are asking for Turkey's guarantees and unilateral intervention "rights?" Is it because you are genuinely afraid the GCs will potentially and at some stage attack the TCs and cause them harm, or is it because you feel that Turkey wants to have such rights, in order to have some control and power over Cyprus?

[denizaksulu]

And in turn your neighbor will want some Greek guarantees in case you knock on his door and voila! We have armies from all THREE guarantor powers on the island but no army of our own.

Why is the TC police not enough to protect you? You do not trust them? You think the mainland Turks are more capable and trustworthy than TC police in a bizonal system? Are you joking with us?

Seeing how the Turkish police operate in Turkey.................no thanks.

so you prefer their millitary to look after us Deniz?

Now you talk utter rubbish. Too early for Zivania DT.

[Misunderestimated]

And in turn your neighbor will want some Greek guarantees in case you knock on his door and voila! We have armies from all THREE guarantor powers on the island but no army of our own.

Why is the TC police not enough to protect you? You do not trust them? You think the mainland Turks are more capable and trustworthy than TC police in a bizonal system? Are you joking with us?

No Nikitas, I'm not joking. Our police force is as incompetent as our government. In all seriousness, Turkeys power of intervention is in the 1960 constitution and so it should be.

If the GCs have no ulterior motive and will never repeat its mistakes then why should it worry with Turkeys power to intervene. If they are never given reason to then they wont, they cant, they dare not. Its really that simple.

Misunderestimated, I would like to ask you a few questions. The first one, what is the reason you are asking for Turkey's guarantees and unilateral intervention "rights?" Is it because you are genuinely afraid the GCs will potentially and at some stage attack the TCs and cause them harm, or is it because you feel that Turkey wants to have such rights, in order to have some control and power over Cyprus?

Hi Kifeas,

Its certainly not the latter. The last thing I want is Turkeys control over the whole island. In fact I'm looking forward to the day we find a fruitful solution and have Turkey pull out of the island together with most if not all the settlers.

The guarantorship of Turkey could just be a symbolic thing for heavens sake, just a precautionary measure. Why are you so bothered if there will be no repeat from either communities of the mistakes in the past? Do you think we would allow them to attack if there was no reason to? They would have to get through us before they could get to you, I would stand in their way, I would take bullet for you guys if they attacked for no apparent reason. Just like you want me to trust you I want you to trust me on this issue.

[Kifeas]

And in turn your neighbor will want some Greek guarantees in case you knock on his door and voila! We have armies from all THREE guarantor powers on the island but no army of our own.

Why is the TC police not enough to protect you? You do not trust them? You think the mainland Turks are more capable and trustworthy than TC police in a bizonal system? Are you joking with us?

No Nikitas, I'm not joking. Our police force is as incompetent as our government. In all seriousness, Turkeys power of intervention is in the 1960 constitution and so it should be.

If the GCs have no ulterior motive and will never repeat its mistakes then why should it worry with Turkeys power to intervene. If they are never given reason to then they wont, they cant, they dare not. Its really that simple.

Misunderestimated, I would like to ask you a few questions. The first one, what is the reason you are asking for Turkey's guarantees and unilateral intervention "rights?" Is it because you are genuinely afraid the GCs will potentially and at some stage attack the TCs and cause them harm, or is it because you feel that Turkey wants to have such rights, in order to have some control and power over Cyprus?

Hi Kifeas,

Its certainly not the latter. The last thing I want is Turkeys control over the whole island. In fact I'm looking forward to the day we find a fruitful solution and have Turkey pull out of the island together with most if not all the settlers.

The guarantorship of Turkey could just be a symbolic thing for heavens sake, just a precautionary measure. Why are you so bothered if there will be no repeat from either communities of the mistakes in the past? Do you think we would allow them to attack if there was no reason to? They would have to get through us before they could get to you, I would stand in their way, I would take bullet for you guys if they attacked for no apparent reason. Just like you want me to trust you I want you to trust me on this issue.

Hello Misunderestimated,

1. I still do not get an answer as to why exactly you want Turkey’s unilateral intervention rights? You said as a precaution, but to what?

2. Aren’t you concerned that Turkey, an evidently militarized country with little political and democratic culture, and little respect for the human, cultural and political rights of its own people (citizens,) is one of the last countries on this planet that should have the privilege to guarantee (even in theory) other countries’ and other people’s -more so an EU member state’s internal affairs and security?

3. You asked me “do you think we would allow them to attack if there was no reason to?” I ask you back; who will stop them, and how, if they feel they legally have such a right and they will want to make use of it, on the basis of an easily invented and no matter how loose pre-text?

4. How do you expect the GCs to put trust in a country like Turkey to deposit their own future and their own country’s political independence and integrity, when we saw how it blatantly misused its intervention “right” in 1974 to make almost 200 thousand GCs refugees, while usurping their entire homes and properties in the north; and when we also see how it treats its very own citizens (Kurds, Allevis, etc?)

[Nikitas]

Seems TCs are not getting it. This Turkey guarantee deal is just not going to fly with GCs. Not in a BBF situation. And the reason is not only that there will be involvement and suzerainty to Turkey, GCs do not want Greece or Britain as guarantors either. It these threee want to have a deal let them deal among themselves and leave us alone.

Adding a permanent military presence of Greece and Turkey for ever, is a recipe for disaster. Surprising that TCs do not see it. What do you think these armies will be doing all day to keep busy? They will make contingency plans and these plans have funny ways of becoming reality.

[Misunderestimated]

And in turn your neighbor will want some Greek guarantees in case you knock on his door and voila! We have armies from all THREE guarantor powers on the island but no army of our own.

Why is the TC police not enough to protect you? You do not trust them? You think the mainland Turks are more capable and trustworthy than TC police in a bizonal system? Are you joking with us?

No Nikitas, I'm not joking. Our police force is as incompetent as our government. In all seriousness, Turkeys power of intervention is in the 1960 constitution and so it should be.

If the GCs have no ulterior motive and will never repeat its mistakes then why should it worry with Turkeys power to intervene. If they are never given reason to then they wont, they cant, they dare not. Its really that simple.

Misunderestimated, I would like to ask you a few questions. The first one, what is the reason you are asking for Turkey's guarantees and unilateral intervention "rights?" Is it because you are genuinely afraid the GCs will potentially and at some stage attack the TCs and cause them harm, or is it because you feel that Turkey wants to have such rights, in order to have some control and power over Cyprus?

Hi Kifeas,

Its certainly not the latter. The last thing I want is Turkeys control over the whole island. In fact I'm looking forward to the day we find a fruitful solution and have Turkey pull out of the island together with most if not all the settlers.

The guarantorship of Turkey could just be a symbolic thing for heavens sake, just a precautionary measure. Why are you so bothered if there will be no repeat from either communities of the mistakes in the past? Do you think we would allow them to attack if there was no reason to? They would have to get through us before they could get to you, I would stand in their way, I would take bullet for you guys if they attacked for no apparent reason. Just like you want me to trust you I want you to trust me on this issue.

Hello Misunderestimated,

1. I still do not get an answer as to why exactly you want Turkey’s unilateral intervention rights? You said as a precaution, but to what?

2. Aren’t you concerned that Turkey, an evidently militarized country with little political and democratic culture, and little respect for the human, cultural and political rights of its own people (citizens,) is one of the last countries on this planet that should have the privilege to guarantee (even in theory) other countries’ and other people’s -more so an EU member state’s internal affairs and security?

3. You asked me “do you think we would allow them to attack if there was no reason to?” I ask you back; who will stop them, and how, if they feel they legally have such a right and they will want to make use of it, on the basis of an easily invented and no matter how loose pre-text?

4. How do you expect the GCs to put trust in a country like Turkey to deposit their own future and their own country’s political independence and integrity, when we saw how it blatantly misused its intervention “right” in 1974 to make almost 200 thousand GCs refugees, while usurping their entire homes and properties in the north; and when we also see how it treats its very own citizens (Kurds, Allevis, etc?)

Kifeas,

Turkeys intervention rights doesn't have to be unilateral. As in the 1960 constitution it can consist of the existing members or if you are not happy you can nominate any country you like as long as Turkey is one of them. Precaution against the obvious. Prevention is better than cure.

2 I'm very much aware of Turkeys evil image by the outside world but please think of it from our point of view. It has been there for us whenever we needed it. While everybody kicked us in the teeth it picked us up and hugged us a treated our wounds. We had or better still have no one else to turn to. It is up to you now to hug us and claim us as your own, you legitimate compatriot so that we can slowly distance ourselves from our Turkish cousins.

3 You don't wont GB or Greece as guarantors, please feel free to choose your own guarantors as long as Turkey is included in the group. I think its a bit of an exaggeration for you to claim it will invent a reason to attack. How come you can claim this and you want me to accept it but if I mention I fear you may attack us you dismiss it?

4 I'm as saddened and concerned as you are in Turkeys internal policies. The treatment of the Kurds and alike is something I detest and I don't know of anybody that I associate with who would disagree with me. As for the 200000 refugees, well Kifeas my heart goes out them poor souls. I would be suicidal if I lost all that I possessed because of a conflict for which I am not responsible. It is now in the hands of Mr Christofias and our clown Talat, it is a well know fact that the GCs are better politicians than the TCs and are better negotiators, it is also in my interest for your leader to come out victorious out of the negotiations because I believe the TCs will have a better future in a unified Cyprus.

I would however like to reiterate, if a unified Cyprus can only be achieved with the guarantorship of Turkey then both communities should welcome this opportunity with open arms.

[Kifeas]

Misunderestimated,
You say, “Turkey’s intervention right doesn’t have to be unilateral,” however this is precisely what Turkey insists on (i.e. to maintain unilateral intervention “rights,” just like the 1960 treaty of “guarantee,”) and this is also what Talat and the vast majority of the TC leadership are preaching and aiming at! If it was an issue of finding and agreeing on an alternative scheme of guarantees, mainly to alleviate your community’s concerns, the GCs would gladly accommodate it as long as no one single country has unilateral intervention “rights,” even on paper. We (GCs) can easily agree and accept a multinational regiment that will include troops from Turkey, Greece and other countries, but also combined Cypriot troops in equal numbers to the foreign ones, under the comradeship and mandate of the UN SC or another international body, and in which no one component part or country should alone have the right to unilaterally take action. This however is not acceptable to Turkey and your leadership, and -unlike you, it seems so by the majority of the TC community, otherwise the issue of security and guarantees would have been resolved by now.

What percentage of TCs do you believe share your ideas, as you presented them above, regarding the issue of security and “guarantees?” In my understanding, a very little proportion does, nevertheless, Talat and his part do not, nor the main opposition party.

[Oracle]

Misunderestimated sounds like he does not support the TC "administration" and does not care for the TC police ... so what does he tell us, he trusts?

The Turkish Government and Turkish Military.

Perhaps he is a recent "visitor" to Cyprus? Maybe a Settler who is not ready to let-go of the Turkish mother amoeba that budded him off!

For he is happy to continue with Turkey's "guarantor-ship" because they came and they invaded Cyprus and slaughtered thousands of GCs and usurped 200,000 GCs and these are people he has no sympathy for, indeed, would prefer to subject them to a further real possibility of similar treatment from Turkey-as-guarantor, just because he does not trust TC policemen nor EU Law.

Misunderestimated, have I misunderstood you?