Cyprus-Forum.com

[halil]

Ataturk and Venizelos

Ozcan Ozcanhan

• Our present leaders think and act like emperors
• Christofias and Talat will not solve the Cyprus problem for their own personal interests and for the sake of their closest friends and circles.
Andreas Paraskos, a Greek Cypriot journalist colleague, spoke with me in earnest and openly stressed some points others would not like to touch.
When we spoke for some time at his new office as Director of Kathimerini he did not beat around the bush and said what he wanted to say, very openly in his own way expressing his pessimism over the future of the Cyprus talks.
“Christofias and Talat will not solve the Cyprus problem. Like Clerides, Denktas, Makarios, Kyprianou, Vassiliou, Papadopoulos ... because they do not want to lose the power, authority, influence, the special benefits for themselves and for their clique. They think they are emperors. Once the problem is solved peacefully, and they are no longer ‘Presidents’ they will lose every influence, power and opportunity for self gain and for providing their own circles with lush, luxury, job opportunities, wealth ... Mr. Talat and Mr Christofias, old comrades, have similar philosophies, they intend to prolong their incumbent position until they die,” said Paraskos.
He pointed more to the economy than the political problem in Cyprus.
“For me the Cyprus problem is more about economics than politics. The economy and the economic sources will solve the problem. If the economic powers of the world, economic circles of our island tell Turkey to pull out its troops, Turkey will comply. This generation will not be able to resolve the Cyprus problem. A new generation will do it in 30-40 years time. Look at the history books and look at what they teach. Books are full of hatred, enmity and mistrust for the other.”
“What about the media and its role in shaping the future generation,” I asked.
“The media and the journalists have been affected in a dramatic way and are under the influence of the education they get. They act as their bosses guide and lead them. They are not free to express their feelings, truth in many cases, and they are economically dependent. They convey and publish what they are fed, distorting facts on many occasions. Journalists must be free to move about, pursue news and events and disseminate, criticise and analyse fearlessly. They should not be banned from travelling and prevented from digging hard to bring to daylight buried evil events,” he answered.
What should the leaders and the media do for reconciliation, peace and settlement and for Cyprus?
Paraskos spoke firmly, “To start with, Christofias and Talat, leaders and Presidents should apologise. Have you heard Christofias publicly apologising and saying ‘we are sorry for what we have done to the Turkish Cypriots. Much blood was shed and lives lost, people suffered, we killed them, we forced them from their homes, we openly apologise and vow to work for a better, secure, friendly future. Has Talat or any other Turkish Cypriot leader said, yes, we suffered, they hurt us, they killed us ... but we also hit them, hurt them and killed. We forced them out of their homes and looted. We are really sorry and we apologise. Let us all work for a peaceful and harmonious Cyprus, let us work as humans for humanity and human rights of our people.’ No, They have not and they will not. It takes guts, courage and determination and needs honesty to do so. They forget what Eleftheria Venizelos and Kemal Ataturk did.
Ataturk and Venizelos were great leaders. Because they took decisions boldly, they worked for their nations, friendly and good neighbourly relations and above all they worked and struggled for humanity and human benefits of their people’s peaceful co-existence. They were magnanimous, understanding and forgiving,” emphasised Paraskos.
On the Anglo-American role, Paraskos had this to say: “Cyprus is strategically important and the Anglo-Americans have strategic plans accordingly. Look, in the case of Afghanistan and Iraq the British Sovereign bases in Cyprus were openly used for attacks and later on for undercover transfer of international terror suspects to Guantanamo Bay Prison.”
Why is there no action against the British Sovereign bases and foreign interferences; why doesn’t anybody veto? You know, Greek Cypriot leaders have many times threatened to use their veto against Turkey...”
“That is a dirty game. You know the veto games at the United Nations, the EU and elsewhere. The Lobbies. How one scratches the back of others who scratch his back. For example what is Burundi, who is Burundi, who can it veto. Big boys approach and promise them some financial and economic or other aid. They go in and raise their hands. Dirty games and votes are on display at the UN and other decision making bodies, all the time. Self interest and special benefits, you know.”
• KATHIMERINI- in English means daily-, but the newly launched newspaper will be a weekly under Chief Editor Yiannis Antoninou and Director Andreas Paraskos.
• I wish them good luck and success and I hope that they will work hard for stability, peace, co-existence of the two communities and for the eradication of the deep mistrust between the peoples.

[denizaksulu]

What I dont understand is that Venizelos was one of the proponents of the invasion of Turkey in 1919, which led to the Anatolian Tragedy, yet Mustafa Kemal saw Venizelos as a great leader. Mind boggles!!

[Get Real!]

What I dont understand is that Venizelos was one of the proponents of the invasion of Turkey in 1919, which led to the Anatolian Tragedy, yet Mustafa Kemal saw Venizelos as a great leader. Mind boggles!!

Neither one was a "great leader". Venizelos stupidly advanced the Greeks when he shouldn't have and ended up losing the lot, and Attaturk was early on initially crushed only to have Russia save his arse in the nick of time (The price was to forfeit Crimea).

[denizaksulu]

What I dont understand is that Venizelos was one of the proponents of the invasion of Turkey in 1919, which led to the Anatolian Tragedy, yet Mustafa Kemal saw Venizelos as a great leader. Mind boggles!!

Neither one was a "great leader". Venizelos stupidly advanced the Greeks when he shouldn't have and ended up losing the lot, and Attaturk was early on initially crushed only to have Russia save his arse in the nick of time (The price was to forfeit Crimea).

The battle of Sakaria, was not a 'nick in time' save. The Greek Army had overstretched themselves. The Turkish Nationalists did get there hands on surplus Russian stock, but the English provided the Greeks with Arms and Transport. That doesnt matter. The end result does. Otherwise Vryonis won your Greek War of Independence single handedly.

[Kifeas]

Ataturk and Venizelos

Ozcan Ozcanhan

• Our present leaders think and act like emperors
• Christofias and Talat will not solve the Cyprus problem for their own personal interests and for the sake of their closest friends and circles.
Andreas Paraskos, a Greek Cypriot journalist colleague, spoke with me in earnest and openly stressed some points others would not like to touch.
When we spoke for some time at his new office as Director of Kathimerini he did not beat around the bush and said what he wanted to say, very openly in his own way expressing his pessimism over the future of the Cyprus talks.
“Christofias and Talat will not solve the Cyprus problem. Like Clerides, Denktas, Makarios, Kyprianou, Vassiliou, Papadopoulos ... because they do not want to lose the power, authority, influence, the special benefits for themselves and for their clique. They think they are emperors. Once the problem is solved peacefully, and they are no longer ‘Presidents’ they will lose every influence, power and opportunity for self gain and for providing their own circles with lush, luxury, job opportunities, wealth ... Mr. Talat and Mr Christofias, old comrades, have similar philosophies, they intend to prolong their incumbent position until they die,” said Paraskos.
He pointed more to the economy than the political problem in Cyprus.
“For me the Cyprus problem is more about economics than politics. The economy and the economic sources will solve the problem. If the economic powers of the world, economic circles of our island tell Turkey to pull out its troops, Turkey will comply. This generation will not be able to resolve the Cyprus problem. A new generation will do it in 30-40 years time. Look at the history books and look at what they teach. Books are full of hatred, enmity and mistrust for the other.”
“What about the media and its role in shaping the future generation,” I asked.
“The media and the journalists have been affected in a dramatic way and are under the influence of the education they get. They act as their bosses guide and lead them. They are not free to express their feelings, truth in many cases, and they are economically dependent. They convey and publish what they are fed, distorting facts on many occasions. Journalists must be free to move about, pursue news and events and disseminate, criticise and analyse fearlessly. They should not be banned from travelling and prevented from digging hard to bring to daylight buried evil events,” he answered.
What should the leaders and the media do for reconciliation, peace and settlement and for Cyprus?
Paraskos spoke firmly, “To start with, Christofias and Talat, leaders and Presidents should apologise. Have you heard Christofias publicly apologising and saying ‘we are sorry for what we have done to the Turkish Cypriots. Much blood was shed and lives lost, people suffered, we killed them, we forced them from their homes, we openly apologise and vow to work for a better, secure, friendly future. Has Talat or any other Turkish Cypriot leader said, yes, we suffered, they hurt us, they killed us ... but we also hit them, hurt them and killed. We forced them out of their homes and looted. We are really sorry and we apologise. Let us all work for a peaceful and harmonious Cyprus, let us work as humans for humanity and human rights of our people.’ No, They have not and they will not. It takes guts, courage and determination and needs honesty to do so. They forget what Eleftheria Venizelos and Kemal Ataturk did.
Ataturk and Venizelos were great leaders. Because they took decisions boldly, they worked for their nations, friendly and good neighbourly relations and above all they worked and struggled for humanity and human benefits of their people’s peaceful co-existence. They were magnanimous, understanding and forgiving,” emphasised Paraskos.
On the Anglo-American role, Paraskos had this to say: “Cyprus is strategically important and the Anglo-Americans have strategic plans accordingly. Look, in the case of Afghanistan and Iraq the British Sovereign bases in Cyprus were openly used for attacks and later on for undercover transfer of international terror suspects to Guantanamo Bay Prison.”
Why is there no action against the British Sovereign bases and foreign interferences; why doesn’t anybody veto? You know, Greek Cypriot leaders have many times threatened to use their veto against Turkey...”
“That is a dirty game. You know the veto games at the United Nations, the EU and elsewhere. The Lobbies. How one scratches the back of others who scratch his back. For example what is Burundi, who is Burundi, who can it veto. Big boys approach and promise them some financial and economic or other aid. They go in and raise their hands. Dirty games and votes are on display at the UN and other decision making bodies, all the time. Self interest and special benefits, you know.”
• KATHIMERINI- in English means daily-, but the newly launched newspaper will be a weekly under Chief Editor Yiannis Antoninou and Director Andreas Paraskos.
• I wish them good luck and success and I hope that they will work hard for stability, peace, co-existence of the two communities and for the eradication of the deep mistrust between the peoples.

If Andreas Paraskos indeed made the above nonsensical comments, he lost even the mild respect I used to have for him as a journalist. I wonder how people with such a little track and acumen can do the job of a political journalist, set aside a chief editor.

[Nikitas]

"Otherwise Vryonis won your Greek War of Independence single handedly"

I thought it was Derigny, Tsakalof and Codrington who did that at Navarino.

[Bananiot]

The Greek army was forced to advance in order to reach the Turkish army and destroy it. As long as the Turkish army was operating intact deep in Turkey any Greek advancements were of insignificant importance. Until then, the Greek army dealt with guarillas and Turkish bands that did not belong to the proper army. Inevidably, the Turkish army crashed the Greek army and brought about the worse disaster of the modern era for Greece. How about putting a stop to war games and concentrate on peace for a change?

[halil]

Ataturk and Venizelos

Ozcan Ozcanhan

• Our present leaders think and act like emperors
• Christofias and Talat will not solve the Cyprus problem for their own personal interests and for the sake of their closest friends and circles.
Andreas Paraskos, a Greek Cypriot journalist colleague, spoke with me in earnest and openly stressed some points others would not like to touch.
When we spoke for some time at his new office as Director of Kathimerini he did not beat around the bush and said what he wanted to say, very openly in his own way expressing his pessimism over the future of the Cyprus talks.
“Christofias and Talat will not solve the Cyprus problem. Like Clerides, Denktas, Makarios, Kyprianou, Vassiliou, Papadopoulos ... because they do not want to lose the power, authority, influence, the special benefits for themselves and for their clique. They think they are emperors. Once the problem is solved peacefully, and they are no longer ‘Presidents’ they will lose every influence, power and opportunity for self gain and for providing their own circles with lush, luxury, job opportunities, wealth ... Mr. Talat and Mr Christofias, old comrades, have similar philosophies, they intend to prolong their incumbent position until they die,” said Paraskos.
He pointed more to the economy than the political problem in Cyprus.
“For me the Cyprus problem is more about economics than politics. The economy and the economic sources will solve the problem. If the economic powers of the world, economic circles of our island tell Turkey to pull out its troops, Turkey will comply. This generation will not be able to resolve the Cyprus problem. A new generation will do it in 30-40 years time. Look at the history books and look at what they teach. Books are full of hatred, enmity and mistrust for the other.”
“What about the media and its role in shaping the future generation,” I asked.
“The media and the journalists have been affected in a dramatic way and are under the influence of the education they get. They act as their bosses guide and lead them. They are not free to express their feelings, truth in many cases, and they are economically dependent. They convey and publish what they are fed, distorting facts on many occasions. Journalists must be free to move about, pursue news and events and disseminate, criticise and analyse fearlessly. They should not be banned from travelling and prevented from digging hard to bring to daylight buried evil events,” he answered.
What should the leaders and the media do for reconciliation, peace and settlement and for Cyprus?
Paraskos spoke firmly, “To start with, Christofias and Talat, leaders and Presidents should apologise. Have you heard Christofias publicly apologising and saying ‘we are sorry for what we have done to the Turkish Cypriots. Much blood was shed and lives lost, people suffered, we killed them, we forced them from their homes, we openly apologise and vow to work for a better, secure, friendly future. Has Talat or any other Turkish Cypriot leader said, yes, we suffered, they hurt us, they killed us ... but we also hit them, hurt them and killed. We forced them out of their homes and looted. We are really sorry and we apologise. Let us all work for a peaceful and harmonious Cyprus, let us work as humans for humanity and human rights of our people.’ No, They have not and they will not. It takes guts, courage and determination and needs honesty to do so. They forget what Eleftheria Venizelos and Kemal Ataturk did.
Ataturk and Venizelos were great leaders. Because they took decisions boldly, they worked for their nations, friendly and good neighbourly relations and above all they worked and struggled for humanity and human benefits of their people’s peaceful co-existence. They were magnanimous, understanding and forgiving,” emphasised Paraskos.
On the Anglo-American role, Paraskos had this to say: “Cyprus is strategically important and the Anglo-Americans have strategic plans accordingly. Look, in the case of Afghanistan and Iraq the British Sovereign bases in Cyprus were openly used for attacks and later on for undercover transfer of international terror suspects to Guantanamo Bay Prison.”
Why is there no action against the British Sovereign bases and foreign interferences; why doesn’t anybody veto? You know, Greek Cypriot leaders have many times threatened to use their veto against Turkey...”
“That is a dirty game. You know the veto games at the United Nations, the EU and elsewhere. The Lobbies. How one scratches the back of others who scratch his back. For example what is Burundi, who is Burundi, who can it veto. Big boys approach and promise them some financial and economic or other aid. They go in and raise their hands. Dirty games and votes are on display at the UN and other decision making bodies, all the time. Self interest and special benefits, you know.”
• KATHIMERINI- in English means daily-, but the newly launched newspaper will be a weekly under Chief Editor Yiannis Antoninou and Director Andreas Paraskos.
• I wish them good luck and success and I hope that they will work hard for stability, peace, co-existence of the two communities and for the eradication of the deep mistrust between the peoples.

On 26th November Christofias is flying to Athens ...... to get the orders from Mama too .......
No one is focusing on the talks ..... fly ....fly ....somewhere to get orders....or to find back up from others ..... None of them has got power to decide alone .

[denizaksulu]

"Otherwise Vryonis won your Greek War of Independence single handedly"

I thought it was Derigny, Tsakalof and Codrington who did that at Navarino.

We are talking about the Greek War of Independence.

Navarino is a different kettle of fish. Then Navarino was still 'Ottoman'. Not nice being trapped is it?

[Nikitas]

Deniz, you are confusing me.

Omer Vryonis was a Turkish general during the 1821 revolt. The battle of Navarino was the destruction of the Ottoman and Egyptian fleets in south Peloponnesus which eventually put an end to the war.

Are you referring to another Vryonis?

And I was wrong in my post above, the Russian admiral was not Tsakalof, his name was Heyden, hence the three parallel streets in Athens named after these three admirals.