[quote="Paphitis"][quote="denizaksulu"][quote="Talisker"][quote="Paphitis"][quote] Even for you Paphitis, this is the most ridiculously arrogant post, full of gross generalisations, and once again showing your high self regard. You yourself seem to want to claim the moral high ground on every possible occasion - as illustrated in your recent spats with Miltiades, and also with your previous hero, GR!.
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If your gripe is due to the fact that I have made some over generalisations, then you may be correct. I mentioned Britain throughout that post, when in actual fact I should have mentioned England. I actually have a great deal of respect for Scotland and her people. And that is straight from the heart.
If you go back and study past posts between myself and Miltiades, you will notice that it was not I who wanted to claim any "moral high ground". Miltiades was trolling my existence in an effort to have me removed from the forum. Unfortunately for him, he did not succeed and his plan backfired.
I REPEAT THAT IT WAS NEVER MY INTENTION TO HAVE HIM PERMANENTLY BANNED, and I have even made small comments as encouragement for his return.[/quote]
Phaphitis, thanks for your kind comments about Scotland. However, as a Scot and also a Brit it is important not to always divorce oneself from responsibiity for the actions of the UK government by solely blaming the English. I hate that attitude in the Scots who use it - when the UK acts in a certain way all it's citizens bear some responsibility. Scotland is fully represented in the UK parliament, so there is little point in hiding behind the excuse that the English bear sole responsibilty either due to their values and attitudes (which are subtly different to the Scots - got to be careful here - this is a major generalisation but having spent approximately the same length of time in my life in both countries I think I can make a judgement on that one), or through the fact the vast majority of MPs represent English constituencies.
[size=18][b][color=red]As far as the Miltiades issue goes I think anyone who gets themseves permanently banned from this forum bears the responsibility for that. However, it is a shame he can't post his views, particuarly on the Cypriot political situation, as he provided a different perspective on many issues to some of the other GCs. Franky, I noticed a tendency amongst some of the GCs to 'gang up' on Miltiades, and you were one of the key players there. Debate is desirable, but often the debates descend into personal attacks and abuse - to my mind an immature attitude which certainly will not assist clarifying the way forward for GCs in reaching a satisfactory political settlement for the island. Don't you realise - the TCs must love it when you GCs descend to this level - have the political debate, including input from all interested forumers, but cut out the personal abuse. In fact it is high time this thread was resurrected:[/color][/b][/size]http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=14608
as I don't feel it has yet been answered.
[quote="Paphitis"][quote] British expats have to communicate on this forum in a 'direct and charismatic' manner do they? I bow to your charisma Paphitis, I really do. And if you want direct, then us Brits can 'do' direct - I think you're full of shit - direct enough for you? For example, explain why you made such a song and dance about leaving the forum before returning in grand style to grace us with your charismatic presence and views? Is your word to be believed? I think not.........
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British expats can communicate any which way they want. I understand that their nation is one of dry and sarcastic humour or wit, but it is incredible how they come here and get on their high horses and have a spit against Cyprus and how bloody hopeless we all are. If they don't like us or Cyprus then they are more than welcome to leave. If they whinge and moan about us, then they can expect us to also have ago, because our memories of our Colonial Past and what these thugs did to us, the legacy of which can still be seen to this very day when Cypriots look northwards towards Pentadaktilos. So do not expect me to stroke your egos and tell you all how wonderful you are, because for me you are in the same basket as Turkey, and sometimes I think that England is far worse.
[quote] But still, from your lofty perch you blast us Brits. You, the perfect individual, us the indirect, uncharismatic citizens of a most cowardly nation. You more than anyone else like to 'have a go' at the Brits as many of us have witnessed through reading your threads:
What has Britain contributed to Cyprus??????
WANTED****Queen Elizabeth****For Murder
Social Experiment - Freedom of Speech and Racism! - this was one of the most pathetic threads I ever read.......
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I blast any Brits that come here and have this superiority complex over Cypriots. I have lost count how many times they make stupid remarks about Cyprus or personally attack other Cypriot forumers. So much moaning and groaning, and when they are counted with our very real opinions about how we have been treated as a nation and people, they moan some more and tell us that we are "Brit Bashing". Well, they can't have it both ways. If they come to Cyprus, [b]change the island's the character by turning it into a resort, whilst destroying our beautiful old villages and traditional homes[/b], then they can expect some form of reaction from us.[/quote]
You just can't help yourself can you? The Brits have turned Cyprus into a resort have they? Paphitis, I think the Cypriots might bear some responsibility there!!!!!!!! Reviewing the development I've noted over the near 25 years I've been visiting Cyprus, I've been appalled at what the planning authorities have allowed to happen to some towns, but don't blame the Brits! The Cypriots were happy to sell and develop (and [i]vice versa[/i]) the land - and could have controlled the rate and type of development that has occurred. They chose to take the profitable route, and have irreversibly destroyed some parts of the island. This is a harsh but, I think, a fair analogy - who should be prosecuted - the drug dealer or the drug user? Yup, the dealer is the one to stop, and in my opinion the Cypriots have only themselves to blame for the damage they have done to their own environment in chasing the big bucks (or UK pounds) available from the relatively wealthy who wish to move to Cyprus. And your claim that we, the Brits, have destroyed your 'beautiful old villages and traditional homes' is ridiculous - Brits are just as likely to renovate old, delapidated property, usually in the traditional style, as they are to desire a villa or apartment - the glut of new properties available and market forces however probably make it much cheaper and easier to buy new than to renovate. In fact, Brits have a long tradition of renovating old buildings for reuse - some of us like 'old' and 'traditional'- and have been doing this in many countries throughout Europe for decades. Come on, give me an example of a Brit moving to Cyprus, demanding an old, traditional property be razed to the ground, and replaced by a modern villa - if that is allowed to happen I suggest the Cypriots are as likely to do this...........
[quote="Paphitis"][quote] Strikes me you have a major chip on your shoulder. I myself, as a Brit, have no great pride in Britain's colonial past, in Cyprus or elsewhere, or in our current overseas 'adventures' (Iraq, Afghanistan) but to describe the UK as 'a truly heartless nation, which displays no compassion to fellow humans' is another inaccurate generalisation. Yes, our government is responsible for shameful foreign policy decisions which involve the military, and we as Brits can make our voices heard in protest at these decisions (many do, we live in a democracy). But many nations and people would also attest to the fact that the UK, for all its imperfections, is not heartless, and does show compassion to fellow humans. The UK is a multicultural society, not just a legacy of our colonial past, but also due to our generosity in accepting many individuals threatened in their own countries. We provide medical and educational aid to many countries, and have a strong culture of charitable donation. There are countless organisations throughout the country fostering international relations in many different spheres - some of this may be altruistic, but oftentimes beneficial to the partner nations. Only a fortnight ago I was at a seminar given by a medic, explaining the challenges of giving training in medical trauma treatments in disaster situations - earthquakes, tsunamis, floods, famine. She paid her own fare and used her annual leave to travel to these countries to provide this training. Hey, guess what Paphitis? She was as British as you could get. And the medical equipment she used was paid for by the British tax payer, or by charitable donation.
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I too am critical Australia's Foreign Policy. We have been drawn into a war that could not possibly be won unless we commit our troops in Iraq for at least another decade.
Why don't you compare the behaviour of US and UK troops in Iraq to Australian troops. UK and US troops have had some attention from international media about many atrocities committed against the Iraqi people, whereas Australian troops have not. Then you can come back and tell me which country has a better trained and more disciplined Army. [b]Our soldiers are better trained and disciplined and will never disgrace our nation, whereas your troops have[/b].
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/sep20 ... -s14.shtml
Britain's humanitarian efforts have been noted, but you can see that all this good work is very easily undone by a few undisciplined soldiers in Iraq.
[quote] Yes, make your points about shortcomings in UK government policy, but do not tar all British citizens with the same brush. What is your point in bringing up the Irish potato famine? Do you really expect me, as a Brit living today, to feel personal responsibility and shame for this tragedy? And frankly, not yet being fifty years old I feel no responsibility for the role of the UK in Cyprus in the 1950s, 60s or 70s - I wasn't yet on this earth, or too young to have any influence at that time. Similarly, I believe you live in Australia. Should I berate you for the shameful actions of your government, over many decades, against the indigenous aborigine people? No, I would not do so, unless I had direct evidence that you were personally involved. You obviously resent the UK and its citizens because of the role played by past UK governments, civil servants and soldiers which led to the invasion, and subsequent division, of Cyprus. I accept the UK was culpable, as was Greece, the US, Turkey (obviously), and wow, what about this for a revelation Paphitis? - Cyprus and Cypriots too!
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I am also willing to highlight shortcomings in Australian Foreign Policy if asked. I do not recall you ever making any negative remarks about Cyprus or its people. I also do not recall you ever getting on your high horse and judge the Cypriot people or display some feelings of superiority towards us. As a result, my comments do not concern you. They do not target you and they are not made to make you feel guilty.
You can berate Australia all you like. it is a country still coming to terms with its indigenous affairs. But also keep in mind, that just about all atrocities committed against Aboriginals, including genocide and the stolen generation, were committed before Australia even became a Federation. Australia was still a British colony and the crimes you elude to were mostly committed by racist British Colonialists who came to Australia and once again considered themselves as superior to the indigenous savages.[/quote]
Another huge generalisation Paphitis. A tiny number of the UK's very large military force has disgraced themselves and our nation in Iraq. Do not extrapolate this to mean our forces are undisciplined, and less so than the Australians. Perhaps the UK soldiers have been operating in a more dangerous environment in Iraq and that explains our higher casualties (as well as our proportionally higher numbers there). Certainly in Afghanistan the UK soldiers have been assigned to the most dangerous province. And yes, of course our soldiers are provided with training in local culture. In fact, the selection process is more rigorous for the forces than it was in the 1970s (the period I was describing for selection during my school days in another post). I have no wish to berate Australia in any way, read my sentence again, and indeed I accept that Britain started the issues regarding the aborigines. I was making a point that no nation is perfect......
[quote="Paphitis"][quote] In this week of remembrance for the dead of the two world wars it is an absolute insult of the highest order to describe the UK as this most cowardly nation. Insulting, and inaccurate. There are some episodes in UK history for which I have no pride, but I am really proud of the UK in those wars, the stand made against tyrrany, the sacrifices made by the nation.
Possibly we wouldn't be able to write our views on a forum such as this if the outcome from those wars had been different. Freedom of speech is a great thing. Use it wisely. Think before you write!
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Agreed.
There are many things you should be proud of. WW1 and WW11 are 2 such examples. Australia too has spilt a lot of blood, usually defending other countries.
But your country has many undignifying moments throughout her history, as do many other countries such as Australia.
Cyprus has been and victim of British atrocities, as well as divide and rule, which has led us to where we are today. So do not expect any of us to be happy about this.[/quote]
Without meaning to sound at all patronising, you are clearly an intelligent guy, Paphitis, with passionate views about Cyprus. But there is little point in linking the current British expat population in Cyprus to the decisions of the UK government in the 1950s to 1970s. Much better would be to accept that the UK was only one of several nations that made unfortunate decisions that led to the 1974 division of the island. It is interesting, indeed fascinating, to review history and try to understand why this event occurred. But I believe it is now more important for Cypriots to rationally debate, without resort to personal insults, the means to obtaining a just political settlement for the reunification of the island, and with your intellect and passion you could undoubtedly play an important role in any forum discussion on this.
And finally - I would like the UK to give back the land currently occupied by the bases - if you have an issue with the current UK government then that would be a relevant one on which to focus.[/quote]
Hi Talisker.
I have just received an e-mail from Miltiades. He states that his ban is POLITICALLY MOTIVATED and nothing to do with the 'alleged use of foul language'. We are all aware of the crassness of language used by other forumers. In his opinion His ban is due to his political views which do not fit in with the Cyprus Forums agenda. He specifically asked me to point this fact out. Had he been allowed on this forum it would be unlikely that he would be able to discuss the issues you refer to above without being censured again. This is 'FREE SPEECH' at its best. Not. The use of foul language was a red herring.
I too have been subject to foul language in the past week. What did Admin do?
Regards[/quote]
Deniz,
How the hell did he come up with this conclusion?
What are his political views which do not fit into the CF agenda?
Bananiot and Miltiades have very similar views, with some minor difference. Why is Bananiot still here if CF has a political agenda?
And why was Panthemon banned as well? Were his political views not in keeping with the CF political agenda?
This is the most ridiculous thing I have heard.
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I did say that it was his opinion, and I will tend to agree with him as I dont see that his foul language is any worse than others have used.
He may have been in contact with Admin and then got banned permantly, how this came about only Miltiades and Admin will know. Perhaps the foul language was the last straw. If we would get Miltiades back, perhaps you could debate the issue. In your opinion has he been the worse offender?
But I consider the Brits to bring all of this upon themselves. If they want to come and live in Cyprus, then they could all show a bit of respect to Cypriot insecurities. They can stop being so overly sensitive when we express our political views in a Cypriot way and stop accusing us of Brit Bashing the minute someone makes an unsavoury remark about their supremacist attitudes, foreign policies, or about The Cyprus Emergency (55-59). Perhaps then we would give them more of a break. Please also note that there are many wonderful Brits in Cyprus, and we accept them even as our own. We love them as they love and accept our country and us. As for the rest, it will all depend on their approach. It is evident that many have a chip on their shoulder going back to the 55-59 period, as do the Cypriots. 
