Cyprus-Forum.com

[Andros]

In the papers today and yesterday, our Greek Cypriot media announced that Talat is under the arm of Turkey and, therefore, is Ankara's Puppet. (No Sh*t Sherlock!).

Isn't this why a "Federal" ("Secondary Taksim" as said by the Turks) plan is to the benefit of Turkey only?

Please, I ask you all, exactly what do you all believe Chris will achieve? As we all know that a unification plan under a federal system can not (and obviously Turkey will never allow the Turkish Cypriots to accept anything less) sway to far from the former Annan Plan?

Does anyone know how President Christofias is intending to achieve such an impossible task?

or, and this I believe......

Will our President accept a plan that mirrors the Annan Plan, as HE DID previously before he had suddenly changed his mind at the last minute, only for his own Gratification of being the only Cypriot president (in history) who's ever capable of Solving the Cyprus problem. Thus, to personally receive the Noble peace prize only.

Why do I ask such a question:
Because, and please correct me if I am wrong, shouldn't be the Turkish Cypriots who should be under international pressure to conform to the internationally recognised Republic of Cyprus? Why should President Christofias be the one under any pressure? Why should he have to make compromises, when it was the Turks who invaded our homes and STILL occupies our homes?

Do you all NOT feel like these talks are more for the benefit of the Turkish Cypriots and Turkey's final EU candidacy, only?

I believe that we are being tricked!

Why?
Because Turkish Cypriot policy as expressed by Talat appears to be exactly in-line with the policy of the Republic of Turkey.

Are we Greek Cypriots considered that stupid?

And, how the hell have we gone from a unification deal to one based on TWO States - in fact, now Two "Founding" States?

Did we not say "NO" to the Annan Plan?

What is President Christofias actually agreeing to with Talat behind closed doors?

And, leading to that, what will happen if we SAY NO to this new plan?

[Get Real!]

Well that'll teach you commies for not voting for Papadopoulos who couldn't be tricked...

You thought you had a problem then eh? Now get a shovel and scrape the commie loser off the tarmac…

[Andros]

Get Real!

Well, what can I say - you hit the nail on the head. I must say that I completely agree with you.

I miss President Papadopoulos because he was a realist and, unlike what others thought of his methods, I believe he would have squeezed the Turks into submission as opposed to the other way round.

Let's face it, under President Papadopoulos, did we experience the so-called recognition of the TRNC? No

Did we see the so-called removal of the isolation? No

And, would we have, NEVER!

That was all scare-mongering in getting him around a dirty table full of foul-play and tricks.

Unfortunately, it appears that President Christofias may have already gone too far with his good nature - what a shame.

The others bought that lie about the recognition of the so-called "TRNC" if we continued to refuse to speak to the Turkish Cypriots until they accept our terms, NOT ME!

I just hope we haven't been sold out.

[Oracle]

Hello Andros

How are you feeling today?

I am only posting just to wish you well .... otherwise I would take you up on where the evidence is, for TWO "Founding" states!

But don't worry, I will wait till you are better ......

[Andros]

Oracle,

That's more like it. Thank you.

I like you better this way. Although I understand why you may think I could be a TC, believe me when I say that I am not - in any way. My views may slightly differ from yours, probably due to my bad experiences with the Turks (old age), but that shouldn't prevent us from any compromise.

Cheers.

[DT.]

Oracle,

That's more like it. Thank you.

I like you better this way. Although I understand why you may think I could be a TC, believe me when I say that I am not - in any way. My views may slightly differ from yours, probably due to my bad experiences with the Turks (old age), but that shouldn't prevent us from any compromise.

Cheers.

Andros,

could you describe to me how your position differs from that of Denktash?

[Andros]

Oracle,

About your Question regarding the "Two Founding States". It's not necessarily the official statements that concern me, but more of the "Idea" and perception that "Two Founding States" is the new platform - know what I mean. For instance, the 1992 Ghalis Set of Ideas with basically based on two founding states, and also the former more recent Annan Plan. There is no smoke without fire.

Here is only a few of the many references where I read it - hope that I am wrong!

(1)
http://www.quantara.de/webcom/show_arti ... SID=133099

(2)
http://www.cbw.cz/en/will-cyprus-unific ... /8556.html

(3)
http://www.angus-reid.com/tracker/view/16630

(4)
http://babs22.wordpress.com/2008/07/25/ ... in-cyprus/


By the way, although I am feeling much better, I am still in hospital sitting on my bed with a laptop. Naturally, I can say that I am at the University College Hospital in London, but nothing more. You never know who's reading this! Thank you for your kind words.

Regards,
Andros.

[lovernomore]

Oracle,

That's more like it. Thank you.

I like you better this way. Although I understand why you may think I could be a TC, believe me when I say that I am not - in any way. My views may slightly differ from yours, probably due to my bad experiences with the Turks (old age), but that shouldn't prevent us from any compromise.

Cheers.

details please. if you are old age and you say this what chance for reunification? I thing you are bulshiting becuse every old person I speak tell me they had no problem with Tcs.

[Andros]

lovernomore,

Yoiu said:

details please. if you are old age and you say this what chance for reunification? I thing you are bulshiting becuse every old person I speak tell me they had no problem with Tcs.

Are you sure you are from Cyprus? Have you not heard of the TMT? The Turkish Soldiers who landed and perhaps, just perhaps, may have killed a few of us? Or even those Turkish mountain fighters of the 1950s and 60s? Are you serious?

We had problems alright mate, and typically these realities are simply diluted in the name of "unification" in the form of an Annan Style Federal State legalising the Turkish Invasion.

Let's be clear here, I am seeking negotiated Partition, the return of all of our land besides an area in relation to your Turkish Cypriot population (minority). Then, if you want, you can name it what you want.

The problems we had, and still have to deal with due to Turkish Cypriot weakness in NOT being able to STAND UP to Turkey is the main reason why I prefer partition. I refuse to agree to unify with the Turkish Cypriots with whom are brainwashed and call Turkey their "Motherland". Thus, I would far prefer to split. Turkey, in my opinion, is a very unstable country, and I can not accept that kind of country to act as a guarantor to the Free Republic of Cyprus. We have spend over 30 years rebuilding the Republic of Cyprus to where it is today - hard work. What have the Turkish Cypriots done in that capacity -Yes! Nothing!

So, there is only one of two resolution scenarios: Join the Republic of Cyprus under a true democracy as a full EU member citizen, or go your separate way with Turkey.

There can be no FEDERAL agreement - we are not that stupid.

To even ask me that kind of question typically proves how blind the Turkish Cypriots are. It is the mistakes made by your people that we are in this mess and not the other way around. We didn't resist a natural change in the Constitution in 1963, we didn't leave the government offices of the Republic and we didn't order Greece to invade the island when we were have minor bi-communal issues. A PROPER Guarantor power, like the UK, was only there to RESTORE ORDER and not OCCUPY.

Turkey's ambition is obvious, and I will never accept such a bogus agreement.

Get it????????

[Nikephoros]

"Among classical [Islamic] jurists (Shaybani 1966 ;Tabari 1990. 15-6 ; Ibn Rushd 1995, 656), the peace between dar al-lslam [abode of peace] and Dar al-harb [abode of war] means the temporary suspension of military conflict. Despite their disagreement on the duration of a peace treaty, Muslim jurists are in accord on the provisional status of peace with non-believers. The term used is "hudna" meaning "truce" or "armistice". This view is totally consistent with the principle of total war against polytheism that we discussed above."

From the Canadian Thesis:
Islam and War : the disparity between the technological-normative evolution of modern war and the doctrine of Jihad
http://amicus.collectionscanada.ca/s4-b ... &rp=1&vo=1

pg. 115 but on my PDF reader it is pg. 134

Turkish National Defence Policy Document displaying the Islamic hudna concept along with traditional muslim "military josh" talk:

http://endoturkika.blogspot.com/2008/09/na...cument-and.html
The “ National Defence Policy’s Document ” (Milli Guvenlik Siyaset Belgesi) is actualised regularly (every 3-5 years) by the Secretariat of National Security Council (MGK), taking into consideration the internal and external threats for the Turkish Republic in the context of the international environment.

Mr Ali Kulebi, chairman of the Centre of Strategic Studies (TUSAM) ...

Mr Ali Kulebi ... writes: “In the current world, the loyalty of international agreements that contradict national interests constitutes a practice of weak nations!”. ...

Proud eternal leader of the Turks, showing his high regard for signing "peace" agreements, only to break them later:

"There is no doubt that England, France, Italy and Greece want to disintegrate us today. But if we make peace under the aegis of a foreign power, we shall be able in our own interest to revise its stipulations as soon as the conditions are favourable."

Ataturk, Mustafa Ghazi Kemal. The Great Speech. Ataturk Research Center, Ankara; 2005. p. 87.

How long will it take Greek Cypriot leaders to understand that they are not dealing with some Western nation when they meet with Turkish leaders? There is more deception than good will at most of these meetings, from the Turkish side.

If you sign an agreement they will most often just violate it later and stonewall in the international community with lies and deception (muslim taqiyya(Turkish Takiyye) or concealment).