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Drawbacks of a “Federal” two constituent Government!

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Drawbacks of a “Federal” two constituent Government!

Postby Andros » Tue Nov 04, 2008 10:51 am

Sorry for my abscence, I've been in hospital. I guess my old age is now creeping up with me.

Firstly, I believe that a federal system under one umbrella consisting of two autonomous constituent areas defies the main principals of EU Constitutional law – and is not practical, especially for Cyprus. Here are my reasons for the above statement:

1) A Federal system consisting of a loose central government and two state areas (regardless of what it is called; constituent or component or even federated) will inevitably lead to confrontation of some kind. For Cyprus, a solution based on such a Federal approach is, in my opinion, not a logical “Inter” strategy considering how "on the trigger" we are on most Cypriot related Security issues.

2) One of the Federal components could easily “Chose” to operate as a unitary system instead of agreeing to participate under one “Federal Government”. There can be no holds on this type of decision. Very dangerous if the TCs (Turkish Cypriots - or Turkish Cypriot State - after a solution) decides to do this!

3) A sudden decision, in the name of security and guarantee, by the TC constituent to secure (What it would refer to as its) “Borderline” with the use of military police, and or Turkish (mainland) police. This can not be ignored, and could become a reality if the TCs decide to take certain security issues in their own hands as one of the “Partner” component states. This would be a disaster for the unified country.

4) TCs acting against GC interests at a central governmental level due to sensitivities imposed on them by the Republic of Turkey. This must be seriously considered, and I believe that former President Papadopoulos had a point regarding this issue.

5) Any official “Boundary” or “Restriction” of a Federal system with a loose central government will surely, and eventually, cause severe differences and possible conflicts.

6) Operational and Constitution problems if, as similar to the former Annan Plan, the TC State is allowed (given the constitutional power) to sign “External” agreements without the participation of either the Central or GC state.

7) Eventually, All Federal governments similar to the one that is being sought by our leader are always accused of “Interfering” with “Local” (being Constituent government affairs) government administration and are pushed to ONLY deal with “Unitary” government issues – such as, Sports, Bi-Communal activities and etc, instead of having an iron hand in ALL Island affairs. This, also, would be disastrous for Cyprus.

8) The overlapping, shared, different levels of a Federal system based on two inter-states is not only a Confusing situation for a large country, but even more confusing for such a small country like Cyprus. Under such a “Complex” system of affairs, as seen by many former “European” countries, the overall result is bound to be “Partition”. But, unfortunately, not one that will be based on our basis!! This is the difference between seeking an agreed partition from the onset as opposed to one that is suddenly imposed.

9) The United States adopted its “First” Constitution in 1781!!!! Can you imagine how many alterations our Constitution will be “FORCED” to make every time the “Turkish Cypriot State” REFUSES to agree on an amendment?

10) FINALLY: But not least!!!!
Let’s say that a federal formula based on two constituent states under a central government (No MATTER what type) is signed and sealed. Then, let’s say it’s the year 2018 and the Republic of Turkey has now suddenly become an EU member state with a population close to 80 odd million. Now, at that point, let’s say that the TC-State has open handily started accepting EU member Turkish settlers until their “Allowed” quota (according to the EU for migration from other EU states) is reached, but has decided to allow a significant number exceeding this quota. Let’s say the issue is brought to court! Do you think the control of these new EU migrants will stop while the COURTS and LEGAL system is fighting it?

So, what am I getting at you may be wonder?
Well, perhaps certain practical truths are interfering with your too liberal judgement of how close Turkey is to Cyprus. How, under a FEDERAL government, the Turkish Cypriot State would be able to OBJECT to any motion in court, delay any agreement until it’s too LATE! Thus, Cyprus would, depending on the nature of Turkish politics – and we know how blistering that is! And in due course, become a country majority- populated by Turks who’ll call themselves Turkish Cypriots!!!
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Postby humanist » Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:31 am

of course its not practical nor will it be for the best for Cypriots true Cypriots not the fascists from both sides who want a divided Cyprus under pretence.
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Postby Oracle » Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:37 am

So all that remains is for "Andros" to give us his (pro-Turkish) solution of gifting 40% of our Island to the Turks now, to avoid his imaginary scenarios above ...

(Why is the forum so easily infiltrated by GC imposters? :? )
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Postby humanist » Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:42 am

because they are cunning my dear friend ;)
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Postby Oracle » Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:47 am

humanist wrote:because they are cunning my dear friend ;)


... but not as cunning as us! :wink:

(I hope .... :? )
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Postby Andros » Tue Nov 04, 2008 1:01 pm

Oracle,

Can you just please be serious with my postings, at least for once! If I were a TC - only a government paid TC would go to such crazy lengths to prove to a load of time wasters that agreed partiition is the only way, unless it is a pure federal plan with no constituent states.

Why would I waste my time? Please think about it, think about how much time I spend on my postings. No Turk, or Turk lover would do such a thing.

In fact, I am starting to think that many of the people on this form who use Greek names are actually Turkish simply due to the fact that there are too many PRO-Two Constituent Federal views. Are you really serious about what you say? Do you really believe that a "Federal" plan based on Two States will work - please, Oracle, stop trying to kid yourself. I like your many Greek Cypriot Pro responses most of the time, but please do not mock another GC's genuine posting with your TC accusations.

I am asking my people to think about one very significant question:

What confidence are you giving them in supporting a Federal plan practically legalising the 1974 invasion? At least with agreed parititon, the Turkish Cypriots will be free from Turkey and so will we, but your suggestions threaten the Entire island of being smothered by Turkey one day. My arguement is a solid one. I talk from experience Oracle and not from an empty Liberal mind who trusts the Turks with the future of our Greek Cypriot children. If you feel so happy to sign a Federal deal on this basis why don't you just cross of the Cease-fire line and live with them for a year? I bet you'll realise how NON-Turkish Cypriot the so-called Turkish Cypriots are.

As I've indirectly suggested, you appear to have no experience with the Turks of Cyprus, are to young to understand hardship after an armed conflict and have never had your home taken away from you. My reasons are for the protection of our people, and not for someone like you to mock on everytime I wrtie. I would prefer it if you do not comment on my postings from now on if you don't believe I am a genuine Greek Cypriot.

I will not sit here, in hospital with my laptop and be mocked.

At least compromise with me. Unless you have something nice to say from now on Oracle, I will avoid responding to your comments. I am an old man, can not sustain such an argument - or at least my body can't anyway.

I'll present myself to you one day, but not at this moment in time.

Take care.
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Postby roseandchan » Tue Nov 04, 2008 2:51 pm

everyone is always talking about the large number of turkish settlers are here, should stay or go in the event of a solution.
does anyone know the figures for how many non cypriots are living in the south?
how does this compare with the figures in the north?
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Postby CBBB » Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:36 pm

roseandchan wrote:everyone is always talking about the large number of turkish settlers are here, should stay or go in the event of a solution.
does anyone know the figures for how many non cypriots are living in the south?
how does this compare with the figures in the north?


We do know the figures and we way outnumber them, unlike the occupied areas where it is completely the other way round.
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Postby Nikitas » Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:57 pm

Foreigners living in the south are exactly that- foreign residents. The presence of foreigners in the south has no impact on the political situation, since as foreigners they do not vote nor can they be elected. There are no non Cypriots in the government of the RoC or in any other public office.

Getting the nationality of the RoC is a tough project. My wife of 30 years cannot get it unless we reside in Cyprus for 3 years and she goes through a whole bunch of applications and approvals.

In the north settlers are imported deliberately for political purposes. At least one minister in the north is a non Cypriot settler. The north regime grants citizenship en bloc to thousands of people at a time. This is the biggest obstacle to a settlement, it is even bigger than the properties problem.
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Postby CBBB » Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:02 pm

Nikitas wrote:Foreigners living in the south are exactly that- foreign residents. The presence of foreigners in the south has no impact on the political situation, since as foreigners they do not vote nor can they be elected. There are no non Cypriots in the government of the RoC or in any other public office.

Getting the nationality of the RoC is a tough project. My wife of 30 years cannot get it unless we reside in Cyprus for 3 years and she goes through a whole bunch of applications and approvals.

In the north settlers are imported deliberately for political purposes. At least one minister in the north is a non Cypriot settler. The north regime grants citizenship en bloc to thousands of people at a time. This is the biggest obstacle to a settlement, it is even bigger than the properties problem.


There is 1 non-cypriot councillor, which is a postion that non-citizens can be elected to.
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