Cyprus-Forum.com

[Get Real!]

It was inappropriate for Samarkeolog to try to capitalize on this takeover the way he did, and for some of you to foolishly go along with it… bad show the lot of you!

Samarkeolog, you have attracted unkie GR’s attention so I’ll be keeping an eye out for you. Now let’s see how you fair...

[denizaksulu]

It was inappropriate for Samarkeolog to try to capitalize on this takeover the way he did, and for some of you to foolishly go along with it… bad show the lot of you!

Samarkeolog, you have attracted unkie GR’s attention so I’ll be keeping an eye out for you. Now let’s see how you fair...

GR, since you breakdown, you are mis-spelling.

Did you mean to say 'fare'?


I feel Oracle is neglecting you.

[Tim Drayton]

Wasn't Bellapais Abbey also given to the GCs by the Ottomans?

Theres Greek iconography in there, plus Greek writing on the walls also....

What do you mean by "given"? That's a 13th century Lusignan Abbey! It was there way before any Ottoman arrived...

Presumably he means that it was Lusignan, but became Greek Cypriot, so it was a Catholic church converted into an Orthodox church, so Greek Cypriots/Orthodox converted others' religious sites the same way Turks/Muslims did.

Unlike my friend Deniz, I'm not so easily impressed by half-researched and half-assumed opportunistic attempts to soften the blow of infamous Ottoman FORCEFUL religious conversions as opposed to the Orthodox Church’s takeover of an ABANDONED Abbey in accordance with your link…

King Hugh IV lived in the abbey between 1354 and 1358 and added apartments for himself, but in 1373, Bellapais' glittering treasure attracted the attention of the Genoese, who robbed the abbey of everything light enough to carry. After this, the abbey spun into physical and moral decline. By the mid-16th century, the strict Norbertine rule had been virtually abandoned at Bellapais, with many of the canons taking a wife (or two) and accepting only their own children as novices.

The Venetians shortened the long-standing name, Abbaye de la Paix (Abbey of Peace), to De la Paix, which eventually became Bellapais.

After the Turkish conquest in 1570, the abbey was given to the Orthodox Church. The buildings were neglected and fell into disrepair, but the abbey church was used as the parish church for the village that grew up around the monastery (presumably populated by descendents of the monks).

Better luck next time.

Aherm ... you have omitted to acknowledge the source of your quote, something you (rightly) take others to task for.

[zan]

Wasn't Bellapais Abbey also given to the GCs by the Ottomans?

Theres Greek iconography in there, plus Greek writing on the walls also....

What do you mean by "given"? That's a 13th century Lusignan Abbey! It was there way before any Ottoman arrived...

Presumably he means that it was Lusignan, but became Greek Cypriot, so it was a Catholic church converted into an Orthodox church, so Greek Cypriots/Orthodox converted others' religious sites the same way Turks/Muslims did.

Unlike my friend Deniz, I'm not so easily impressed by half-researched and half-assumed opportunistic attempts to soften the blow of infamous Ottoman FORCEFUL religious conversions as opposed to the Orthodox Church’s takeover of an ABANDONED Abbey in accordance with your link…

King Hugh IV lived in the abbey between 1354 and 1358 and added apartments for himself, but in 1373, Bellapais' glittering treasure attracted the attention of the Genoese, who robbed the abbey of everything light enough to carry. After this, the abbey spun into physical and moral decline. By the mid-16th century, the strict Norbertine rule had been virtually abandoned at Bellapais, with many of the canons taking a wife (or two) and accepting only their own children as novices.

The Venetians shortened the long-standing name, Abbaye de la Paix (Abbey of Peace), to De la Paix, which eventually became Bellapais.

After the Turkish conquest in 1570, the abbey was given to the Orthodox Church. The buildings were neglected and fell into disrepair, but the abbey church was used as the parish church for the village that grew up around the monastery (presumably populated by descendents of the monks).

Better luck next time.

Really interested to hear what you think that line says GR???

Interesting... let me check that because it could have two meanings.

I'll be waiting!!!

Ok, “Norbertine” appears to refer to a religious order but in any case, it’s clearly NOT a FORCEFUL CONVERSION by the Orthodox Church but a TAKEOVER as a result of ABANDONMENT over time.

I got this quote...Link withheld because of the fear of repercussions for the person involved!!

" Hey! It was hard for us `Norbertine cannons to say no to the Greeks....After all...We had sinned by letting our faith slide but have you seen the girls that were presenting themselves to us. They were like angels...god forgive me...Once we had one we could not stop...The devil had gotten into all of us...We were crazy....Thank heavens that the Greeks came along and saved us".....

[Get Real!]

It was inappropriate for Samarkeolog to try to capitalize on this takeover the way he did, and for some of you to foolishly go along with it… bad show the lot of you!

Samarkeolog, you have attracted unkie GR’s attention so I’ll be keeping an eye out for you. Now let’s see how you fair...

GR, since you breakdown, you are mis-spelling.

Did you mean to say 'fare'?

I feel Oracle is neglecting you.

oops!

[Get Real!]

Wasn't Bellapais Abbey also given to the GCs by the Ottomans?

Theres Greek iconography in there, plus Greek writing on the walls also....

What do you mean by "given"? That's a 13th century Lusignan Abbey! It was there way before any Ottoman arrived...

Presumably he means that it was Lusignan, but became Greek Cypriot, so it was a Catholic church converted into an Orthodox church, so Greek Cypriots/Orthodox converted others' religious sites the same way Turks/Muslims did.

Unlike my friend Deniz, I'm not so easily impressed by half-researched and half-assumed opportunistic attempts to soften the blow of infamous Ottoman FORCEFUL religious conversions as opposed to the Orthodox Church’s takeover of an ABANDONED Abbey in accordance with your link…

King Hugh IV lived in the abbey between 1354 and 1358 and added apartments for himself, but in 1373, Bellapais' glittering treasure attracted the attention of the Genoese, who robbed the abbey of everything light enough to carry. After this, the abbey spun into physical and moral decline. By the mid-16th century, the strict Norbertine rule had been virtually abandoned at Bellapais, with many of the canons taking a wife (or two) and accepting only their own children as novices.

The Venetians shortened the long-standing name, Abbaye de la Paix (Abbey of Peace), to De la Paix, which eventually became Bellapais.

After the Turkish conquest in 1570, the abbey was given to the Orthodox Church. The buildings were neglected and fell into disrepair, but the abbey church was used as the parish church for the village that grew up around the monastery (presumably populated by descendents of the monks).

Better luck next time.

Aherm ... you have omitted to acknowledge the source of your quote, something you (rightly) take others to task for.

I said... "in accordance with your link… "

[Piratis]

My point was that if Islam is "intrusive", so is Christianity. Neither is.

The Turks were intrusive, not Islam.

How can you have intruded if you were invited? And they were not "Turks", but Ottomans, a multicultural empire that was administered by "Greeks" (Orthodox Christians), (Apostolic, Catholic, etc.) Armenians, and all of the others.

Changing Christian Churches into Muslim Mosques is rather intrusive don't you think?

Under Ottoman rule, the converted churches were the Latin churches of the previous colonial power. Architectural historian Camille Enlart (1987 [1899]: 77) said that 'the Greeks, left alone with the Turks after 1571, eagerly joined with them in obliterating all traces of the Latin domination'.

Obviously, I'm not defending any destruction, but if/when people condemn the Ottoman conversion/destruction of Latin places, they must condemn Greek Cypriots for it as well.

Enlart, C. 1987 [1899]: Gothic art and the Renaissance in Cyprus. London: Trigraph Limited.

The Turks were never invited to Cyprus, they invaded us like they did in 1974. In 1974 the "ruler" (Samson) was not somebody we elected or we liked, but this didn't mean we wanted Turks to invade and kill us by the 1000s!

The same goes for 1571. Of course we didn't like the Venetians or any foreign ruler, but of course this didn't mean we wanted Ottoman troops invading Cyprus and killing people by the 10s of thousands.

Regarding the Greek Cypriots taking over places abandoned by the Venetians: Firstly it was the Turks who killed the Venetians, not us. Secondly we just took back what was ours to begin with.

Cyprus does not belong to any foreign ruler. It never belonged to Venetians, it never belonged to Ottomans, and it does not belong to the Turkish invaders today. All these are just foreign rulers of land that belongs to us.

[Get Real!]

Ok, “Norbertine” appears to refer to a religious order but in any case, it’s clearly NOT a FORCEFUL CONVERSION by the Orthodox Church but a TAKEOVER as a result of ABANDONMENT over time.

I got this quote...Link withheld because of the fear of repercussions for the person involved!!

" Hey! It was hard for us `Norbertine cannons to say no to the Greeks....After all...We had sinned by letting our faith slide but have you seen the girls that were presenting themselves to us. They were like angels...god forgive me...Once we had one we could not stop...The devil had gotten into all of us...We were crazy....Thank heavens that the Greeks came along and saved us".....

The "killer" quote!

[denizaksulu]

Wasn't Bellapais Abbey also given to the GCs by the Ottomans?

Theres Greek iconography in there, plus Greek writing on the walls also....

What do you mean by "given"? That's a 13th century Lusignan Abbey! It was there way before any Ottoman arrived...

Presumably he means that it was Lusignan, but became Greek Cypriot, so it was a Catholic church converted into an Orthodox church, so Greek Cypriots/Orthodox converted others' religious sites the same way Turks/Muslims did.

Unlike my friend Deniz, I'm not so easily impressed by half-researched and half-assumed opportunistic attempts to soften the blow of infamous Ottoman FORCEFUL religious conversions as opposed to the Orthodox Church’s takeover of an ABANDONED Abbey in accordance with your link…

King Hugh IV lived in the abbey between 1354 and 1358 and added apartments for himself, but in 1373, Bellapais' glittering treasure attracted the attention of the Genoese, who robbed the abbey of everything light enough to carry. After this, the abbey spun into physical and moral decline. By the mid-16th century, the strict Norbertine rule had been virtually abandoned at Bellapais, with many of the canons taking a wife (or two) and accepting only their own children as novices.

The Venetians shortened the long-standing name, Abbaye de la Paix (Abbey of Peace), to De la Paix, which eventually became Bellapais.

After the Turkish conquest in 1570, the abbey was given to the Orthodox Church. The buildings were neglected and fell into disrepair, but the abbey church was used as the parish church for the village that grew up around the monastery (presumably populated by descendents of the monks).

Better luck next time.

GR, 'my fiend', Please tell me how come that little Latin built church, until 1974 used as a Greek Orthodox church become Greek. Links and credible evidence needed.

[Get Real!]

GR, 'my fiend', Please tell me how come that little Latin built church, until 1974 used as a Greek Orthodox church become Greek. Links and credible evidence needed.

Did I not query the “gave” part when it was first mentioned?

How the hell do you “give” a religious building to the Orthodox Church unless you EXPEL its previous occupiers?