Cyprus-Forum.com

[Bananiot]

Really kouroupettos, you sound just like one. Most of the countries on this planet are federal.

[kurupetos]

Really kouroupettos, you sound just like one. Most of the countries on this planet are federal.

One what?
They are federal in terms of better governance not because of discrimination.

[74LB]

If the objective in these debates is to be right then all these long discussion threads about the Cyprus Problem will ever be is just empty debates. Do not get me wrong healthy debates are good and more often than not lead to a conclusion even if the conclusion is the cliche "we will agree that we disagree" (not an acceptable result for me but better than attacking each other forever). The problem with THESE debates is that they are not healthy because they almost without exception end up becoming personal attacks. It would be great if everyone made an effort to debate the issues without getting personal. I know this can be difficult sometimes especially if the person feels personally wronged by the other side. I do not think anyone can argue that a war is a good thing, but it happened to us...all of us. Now we have to find ways to undo what the war has created.

Allow me to speak from a selfish point of view to make a point. I prefer to be peaceful and happy than right and miserable. The current situation in Cyprus does not make me happy, quite the opposite it makes me very unhappy. I can argue the GC side to death but if my objective is to win the debate as a GC I am setting up myself for a huge disappointment. The parallels with the previous conquerors that have been ruling Cyprus for hundreds of years do not apply here in my opinion. This is not about safeguarding the Greek civilization on an occupied island. The Greek culture and civilization are safe. Nobody is threatening its existence whatever the plan is called...Annan or otherwise. The diffrence now is the European Union. We have to accept however that the TCs are Cypriots too and they have a right to live on this island not as guests but as citizens with the same rights as the GCs. Democracy could have never worked in our situation since the TCs are a large minority. When the result of voting is always aniticipated to be the same in favor of the same majority i.e. the GCs then this is not a true democracy. If a TC had the same chance to be elected President of the Republic as a GC this would be a true democracy. Unfortuntely our situation is comparable to the racism in the US. The whites agains the blacks. It took the US hundreds of years to somewhat overcome the racist divide and elect a black President. This is true democracy. In our case the only way to guarantee true Democracy at this juncture is to allow the TCs to be an entity in a Federation with certain rights guranteed to them until we reach a stage when it will not matter if a Cypriot Citizen is a GC or a TC in the Republic of Cyprus.

If only we could expend all this energy in truly trying to find ways that connect us, ways that CAN lead to the re-unification of our island. We are already a miniature state. Creating two smaller states out of a miniature one borders the ridiculous. A succesful marriage is based on a premise of compromise. If a husband and a wife try to be proven right all the time then one will have to be wrong and this is exactly what should be avoided at all cost if divorce should not be an option. Let's not be right let's be peaceful and happy and let's forgive in both directions for the sake of our children!

Some fine words indeed.

We need to realise that we all need to current round of negotiations between the 2 sets of leaders to succeed otherwise negotiated partition may be the only option remaining.

The only option remaining is the liberation of our country. If you want that kind of democracy then why don't you apply it to Turkey with the Kurds? Double faced criminal hypocrites!

If that is your only option, then so be it. The ball is in your hands. Go ahead and liberate.

[74LB]

If the objective in these debates is to be right then all these long discussion threads about the Cyprus Problem will ever be is just empty debates. Do not get me wrong healthy debates are good and more often than not lead to a conclusion even if the conclusion is the cliche "we will agree that we disagree" (not an acceptable result for me but better than attacking each other forever). The problem with THESE debates is that they are not healthy because they almost without exception end up becoming personal attacks. It would be great if everyone made an effort to debate the issues without getting personal. I know this can be difficult sometimes especially if the person feels personally wronged by the other side. I do not think anyone can argue that a war is a good thing, but it happened to us...all of us. Now we have to find ways to undo what the war has created.

Allow me to speak from a selfish point of view to make a point. I prefer to be peaceful and happy than right and miserable. The current situation in Cyprus does not make me happy, quite the opposite it makes me very unhappy. I can argue the GC side to death but if my objective is to win the debate as a GC I am setting up myself for a huge disappointment. The parallels with the previous conquerors that have been ruling Cyprus for hundreds of years do not apply here in my opinion. This is not about safeguarding the Greek civilization on an occupied island. The Greek culture and civilization are safe. Nobody is threatening its existence whatever the plan is called...Annan or otherwise. The diffrence now is the European Union. We have to accept however that the TCs are Cypriots too and they have a right to live on this island not as guests but as citizens with the same rights as the GCs. Democracy could have never worked in our situation since the TCs are a large minority. When the result of voting is always aniticipated to be the same in favor of the same majority i.e. the GCs then this is not a true democracy. If a TC had the same chance to be elected President of the Republic as a GC this would be a true democracy. Unfortuntely our situation is comparable to the racism in the US. The whites agains the blacks. It took the US hundreds of years to somewhat overcome the racist divide and elect a black President. This is true democracy. In our case the only way to guarantee true Democracy at this juncture is to allow the TCs to be an entity in a Federation with certain rights guranteed to them until we reach a stage when it will not matter if a Cypriot Citizen is a GC or a TC in the Republic of Cyprus.

If only we could expend all this energy in truly trying to find ways that connect us, ways that CAN lead to the re-unification of our island. We are already a miniature state. Creating two smaller states out of a miniature one borders the ridiculous. A succesful marriage is based on a premise of compromise. If a husband and a wife try to be proven right all the time then one will have to be wrong and this is exactly what should be avoided at all cost if divorce should not be an option. Let's not be right let's be peaceful and happy and let's forgive in both directions for the sake of our children!

Some fine words indeed.

We need to realise that we all need to current round of negotiations between the 2 sets of leaders to succeed otherwise negotiated partition may be the only option remaining.

I do not know of any GC who would argue against the right of TCs to reside in a whole and undivided Cyprus, as they once surely did, despite their gripes, shared by us also.

However, from where I am standing, it is the GCs that do not have the right to reside in Cyprus either as guests or citizens ... except for residing in a fragment of what used to be just Cyprus!

I have been reading through some (not so) older threads recently (plus some on that LetsMoanAboutCyprus 'may it RIP' forum as well ) and the general consensus from quite a few posters is for us to 'paddle back to Turkey' . Not really a welcoming viewpoint, nor an invitation for us to live together.

[bigOz]

If the objective in these debates is to be right then all these long discussion threads about the Cyprus Problem will ever be is just empty debates. Do not get me wrong healthy debates are good and more often than not lead to a conclusion even if the conclusion is the cliche "we will agree that we disagree" (not an acceptable result for me but better than attacking each other forever). The problem with THESE debates is that they are not healthy because they almost without exception end up becoming personal attacks. It would be great if everyone made an effort to debate the issues without getting personal. I know this can be difficult sometimes especially if the person feels personally wronged by the other side. I do not think anyone can argue that a war is a good thing, but it happened to us...all of us. Now we have to find ways to undo what the war has created.

Allow me to speak from a selfish point of view to make a point. I prefer to be peaceful and happy than right and miserable. The current situation in Cyprus does not make me happy, quite the opposite it makes me very unhappy. I can argue the GC side to death but if my objective is to win the debate as a GC I am setting up myself for a huge disappointment. The parallels with the previous conquerors that have been ruling Cyprus for hundreds of years do not apply here in my opinion. This is not about safeguarding the Greek civilization on an occupied island. The Greek culture and civilization are safe. Nobody is threatening its existence whatever the plan is called...Annan or otherwise. The diffrence now is the European Union. We have to accept however that the TCs are Cypriots too and they have a right to live on this island not as guests but as citizens with the same rights as the GCs. Democracy could have never worked in our situation since the TCs are a large minority. When the result of voting is always aniticipated to be the same in favor of the same majority i.e. the GCs then this is not a true democracy. If a TC had the same chance to be elected President of the Republic as a GC this would be a true democracy. Unfortuntely our situation is comparable to the racism in the US. The whites agains the blacks. It took the US hundreds of years to somewhat overcome the racist divide and elect a black President. This is true democracy. In our case the only way to guarantee true Democracy at this juncture is to allow the TCs to be an entity in a Federation with certain rights guranteed to them until we reach a stage when it will not matter if a Cypriot Citizen is a GC or a TC in the Republic of Cyprus.

If only we could expend all this energy in truly trying to find ways that connect us, ways that CAN lead to the re-unification of our island. We are already a miniature state. Creating two smaller states out of a miniature one borders the ridiculous. A succesful marriage is based on a premise of compromise. If a husband and a wife try to be proven right all the time then one will have to be wrong and this is exactly what should be avoided at all cost if divorce should not be an option. Let's not be right let's be peaceful and happy and let's forgive in both directions for the sake of our children!

Some fine words indeed.

We need to realise that we all need to current round of negotiations between the 2 sets of leaders to succeed otherwise negotiated partition may be the only option remaining.

The only option remaining is the liberation of our country. If you want that kind of democracy then why don't you apply it to Turkey with the Kurds? Double faced criminal hypocrites!

If that is your only option, then so be it. The ball is in your hands. Go ahead and liberate.

That's the problem! The ball(s) are in his hands and there is none between the legs! Talk is cheap and we ave already seen it during 74 when the shit hit the fan; these fanatic wankers disappeared from the stage, leaving the poor civilian GCs face the music and suffer the consequences.

I agree with you completely, why Sotos has not liberated the island over the past 35 years? Now it is a little too late to expect forigners to do it for him, like they did it in Crete, Trakya, and many other aegean islands...

[Nikitas]

Where on earth is Trakya?

[Oracle]

If the objective in these debates is to be right then all these long discussion threads about the Cyprus Problem will ever be is just empty debates. Do not get me wrong healthy debates are good and more often than not lead to a conclusion even if the conclusion is the cliche "we will agree that we disagree" (not an acceptable result for me but better than attacking each other forever). The problem with THESE debates is that they are not healthy because they almost without exception end up becoming personal attacks. It would be great if everyone made an effort to debate the issues without getting personal. I know this can be difficult sometimes especially if the person feels personally wronged by the other side. I do not think anyone can argue that a war is a good thing, but it happened to us...all of us. Now we have to find ways to undo what the war has created.

Allow me to speak from a selfish point of view to make a point. I prefer to be peaceful and happy than right and miserable. The current situation in Cyprus does not make me happy, quite the opposite it makes me very unhappy. I can argue the GC side to death but if my objective is to win the debate as a GC I am setting up myself for a huge disappointment. The parallels with the previous conquerors that have been ruling Cyprus for hundreds of years do not apply here in my opinion. This is not about safeguarding the Greek civilization on an occupied island. The Greek culture and civilization are safe. Nobody is threatening its existence whatever the plan is called...Annan or otherwise. The diffrence now is the European Union. We have to accept however that the TCs are Cypriots too and they have a right to live on this island not as guests but as citizens with the same rights as the GCs. Democracy could have never worked in our situation since the TCs are a large minority. When the result of voting is always aniticipated to be the same in favor of the same majority i.e. the GCs then this is not a true democracy. If a TC had the same chance to be elected President of the Republic as a GC this would be a true democracy. Unfortuntely our situation is comparable to the racism in the US. The whites agains the blacks. It took the US hundreds of years to somewhat overcome the racist divide and elect a black President. This is true democracy. In our case the only way to guarantee true Democracy at this juncture is to allow the TCs to be an entity in a Federation with certain rights guranteed to them until we reach a stage when it will not matter if a Cypriot Citizen is a GC or a TC in the Republic of Cyprus.

If only we could expend all this energy in truly trying to find ways that connect us, ways that CAN lead to the re-unification of our island. We are already a miniature state. Creating two smaller states out of a miniature one borders the ridiculous. A succesful marriage is based on a premise of compromise. If a husband and a wife try to be proven right all the time then one will have to be wrong and this is exactly what should be avoided at all cost if divorce should not be an option. Let's not be right let's be peaceful and happy and let's forgive in both directions for the sake of our children!

Some fine words indeed.

We need to realise that we all need to current round of negotiations between the 2 sets of leaders to succeed otherwise negotiated partition may be the only option remaining.

I do not know of any GC who would argue against the right of TCs to reside in a whole and undivided Cyprus, as they once surely did, despite their gripes, shared by us also.

However, from where I am standing, it is the GCs that do not have the right to reside in Cyprus either as guests or citizens ... except for residing in a fragment of what used to be just Cyprus!

I have been reading through some (not so) older threads recently (plus some on that LetsMoanAboutCyprus 'may it RIP' forum as well ) and the general consensus from quite a few posters is for us to 'paddle back to Turkey' . Not really a welcoming viewpoint, nor an invitation for us to live together.

I haven't used that expression, but I saw the references and they were directed at Turks and those "TC"s who have an open invitation to Turkey to keep us under illegal occupation.

So as always it is hard to distinguish between those Cypriot-minded TCs and those Turkish-orientated ones.
... who in my humble opinion should paddle back to Turkey too!

[Get Real!]

That's the problem! The ball(s) are in his hands and there is none between the legs! Talk is cheap and we ave already seen it during 74 when the shit hit the fan; these fanatic wankers disappeared from the stage, leaving the poor civilian GCs face the music and suffer the consequences.

I agree with you completely, why Sotos has not liberated the island over the past 35 years? Now it is a little too late to expect forigners to do it for him, like they did it in Crete, Trakya, and many other aegean islands...

There’s nothing funnier than seeing “brave” Ottoman remnants acting tough while hiding behind Turkey when in actual fact EOKA had beaten the TMT to a pulp.

These days it’s even more ridiculous to brag while still hiding behind Turkey, because today’s National Guard has the capability of not only roasting your useless KTEK but also the 37,000 odd Turkish troops illegally stationed on the island if no Turkish reinforcements arrive.

Your “bravery” is entirely dependant on non-stop arrivals of endless Turkish reinforcements from the mainland so you might want to reconsider the actual size of that Ottoman scrotum being peddled.

[bigOz]

Where on earth is Trakya?

Here we go! It is that part of Greece towards North East bordering Turkey (and Bulgaria). Originally and still occupied by ethnic Turks whose human rights were violated by Greece over many years (ie: making it illegal to have Turkish names, speak Turkish, use Turkish schools, or practise muslim religion). It was handed over to Greece by the allied forces after the first world war, when the Ottoman Empire disintegrated and Turkey was shared by Greeks, English, French, and to a lesser extent by the Russians...

[bigOz]

That's the problem! The ball(s) are in his hands and there is none between the legs! Talk is cheap and we ave already seen it during 74 when the shit hit the fan; these fanatic wankers disappeared from the stage, leaving the poor civilian GCs face the music and suffer the consequences.

I agree with you completely, why Sotos has not liberated the island over the past 35 years? Now it is a little too late to expect forigners to do it for him, like they did it in Crete, Trakya, and many other aegean islands...

There’s nothing funnier than seeing “brave” Ottoman remnants acting tough while hiding behind Turkey when in actual fact EOKA had beaten the TMT to a pulp.

These days it’s even more ridiculous to brag while still hiding behind Turkey, because today’s National Guard has the capability of not only roasting your useless KTEK but also the 37,000 odd Turkish troops illegally stationed on the island if no Turkish reinforcements arrive.

Your “bravery” is entirely dependant on non-stop arrivals of endless Turkish reinforcements from the mainland so you might want to reconsider the actual size of that Ottoman scrotum being peddled.

You and your musdering EOKA pigs were so fucking brave, TCs managed to keep them off their enclaves for 11 years - outnumbered by 4 to 1... and armed with far inferior weaponary! Only 500 mainland soldiers in Gonyeli held off 2000 well armed mainland Greek and GC soldiers backed by artillery and tanks for more than 24 hours at the beginning of the 74 invasion - WHERE WAS YOUR EOKA THEN RE GUMBARE???