Cyprus-Forum.com

[Get Real!]

As for the land, it is officially recognised by all that the TCs always owned (by deeds) at least 30% of the land and even more before the exodus back to Turkey started between 1914 and 1050s, when they sold their land to TCs and GCs alike.

So how do you propose that the TCs should have only 18% of the land?

Not even...

Land Ownership by Ethnic Group:

60.9% - Greek/Armenian/Maronite Cypriots
12.3% - Turkish Cypriots
0.5% - Others
26.3% - State/Church Land

http://www.greece.org/cyprus/Maps.htm

[kurupetos]

As for the land, it is officially recognised by all that the TCs always owned (by deeds) at least 30% of the land and even more before the exodus back to Turkey started between 1914 and 1050s, when they sold their land to TCs and GCs alike.

So how do you propose that the TCs should have only 18% of the land?

OK it's a typo assumed 1950 How much did TCs own prior to 1571?

[Kifeas]

Piratis

.....Following the above scenario (which is exactly what Turkey will activate - and they would be stupid not to), IF we are lucky, the EU etc will recognise 2 separate states in Cyprus and the 18% TCs will end up with 30% of land and 50% of coastline. If we are not lucky, we will continue as an unrecognised pariah state (much as the current TRNC) begging for a guardian to protect us.

I believe that for both GCs and TCs to accept any such arranagement (i.e. "equal partnership of 2 component states"), the land sharing should be 82:18 and there should be clear provisions stating that if for any reason the "partnership" breaks down, then both component states will automatically become full UN and EU members. There should also be EU/ Nato guarantees and the solution and abolishment of RoC should only take place at the same time as Turkey hands over the land to GCs and not a minute before.

Youa are conveniently confusing the issue of population and the land owned by the TCs. Please read more to find the true figures!

The TCs were 18% now they are more than 25% od the island's population! And do not give me all that crap about mainland Turks settling here - so did mainland Greeks for the duration of 1963-1964 in their thousands! You want proof I'll give you proof but I am a little busy today - ask and I will oblige later.

As for the land, it is officially recognised by all that the TCs always owned (by deeds) at least 30% of the land and even more before the exodus back to Turkey started between 1914 and 1050s, when they sold their land to TCs and GCs alike.

So how do you propose that the TCs should have only 18 % of the land?

BigOz, that is a very interesting piece of information you are giving us today, and I am sure that coming out of a well researched and knowledgeable person of your high caliber, it must definitely hold a hell a lot of validity. It is very interesting indeed, because a few years back the RoC land registry published all the title deeds of properties all over Cyprus, and it came out that all TC ownership (including the evkaf owned land) was only 12.3% of the total territory of Cyprus, or some 17% of the entire private land in Cyprus. Please do provide all the evidence I am personally sure you do possess, and do this as soon as possible despite your other high obligations, so that we together rub the truth in these brainwashed GC’s faces. Do so very soon, because these GC fanatics tend to claim you are just a waffler that beats around the bush, before disappearing in the hope that his cobblestones will be forgotten. Please do prove us right and come back with all the evidence I am sure you do have!

As for the information that GCs imported thousands of people from mainland Greece, between 1963-64, that is also another very interesting piece of new information that I must admit we GCs were not aware of, but I am again sure you have every evidence to rub in these GC fanatics faces. Please do look for all these very interesting evidence, but in the meantime –until you find them, please tells if you also happen to remember in which parts of Cyprus they have settled in, so that I help you trace them too and consolidate the proving of the fact.

I also have one final question for you. Since you have now proved, with your very articulate arguments, that the naturalization of mainland Turkish settlers in Cyprus was a perfectly legitimate thing; would you agree that should more come in the future and thus the TCs become the 80% of the total population, that the GCs should rightfully return the excessive territory they anyway now illegally occupy –since with your help we have concluded that they were once illegal foreign invaders in the otherwise TC ancestral territory of Cyprus, and contain themselves in only the 20% of the island?

[Viewpoint]

perhaps your reflecting on the 18% racist notion and ideology.

Answer the question please, how on earth would we have a chance with the electorate being GC 80% racist, who would rather die than vote for a TC president.

Who would have ever thought that minority blacks (10%) in the USA could ever become a President despite having been slaves for few hundred years, denied their civil rights for another hundred years where segregation was the order of the day, in which the whites were the rulers. I believe you thought the same way too VP, even up to November 4th elections. Well VP, time does not stand still and people move forward with the times.

To answer your concerns in another way, I would eliminate all political parties and just create 3 main ones and let all people choose which party they want to belong to, so that we can all vote on ideology and not because the candidate is a GC or a TC. I would also go as far as saying, let each Presidential candidate only choose a running mate for the vice presidential post from the opposing ethnic group, so that there are always a TC and a GC in power simultaneously who would be elected by those from both major communities. This would go a long way to creating a political equality and a one man one vote system in a True Democracy.

We are talking GCs and TCs here, they are politically immature and would under no circumstancies come together as parties let alone vote for the other side.

Then I would suggest to those who do not wish to be just Cypriots and act like civilized citizens of Cyprus can choose to go and live in Turkey or Greece respectively and see how far they will get being accepted in the political systems of those countries. At some point we need to respect our Cypriotness over just being a TC or a GC. This is how things are done in civilized nations or they have wars. It is a simple choice to make. Peace or war.

The newly found we are all "Cypriots" mentality the GCs peddle is equal to assimilation for TCs, where was this ideology in 1963? It will take more than a few people to say well don't look at it like we are 2 communities we should be thinking as one, this will take lots of goodwill and time to achieve because for now neither side trusts the other and until safeguards are put in place to ensure people know where they stand and what their limits are no solution will be agreed.

You will never get a 80% GC population to vote in a TC president if it has taken the Black in the USA hundreds of years we need thousands, the GCs are the ones who have the upper hand in this issue so of course they will support this viewpoint which means no more than surrender your future into the hands of the GCs, which we will never do.

[Viewpoint]

VP is right to think that we would never vote for a racist TC like himself. But most GCs would not have a problem at all to vote for a TC with the mentality of Kikapu.

In fact I would personally not have a problem if there would be required that at least 1 every 5 presidents is a TC, as long as the president is always elected by the Cypriot people as a whole. It is unacceptable for a leader of a country to be elected by just the 9% of the votes.

Kikapu supports you views 100% thats why you would not have a problem with him, would you vote for Bananiot is the real question?

[Viewpoint]

VP asks:

"Can you answer the question? how can 80% racist GC population ever vote in a TC president, the vice president post was to counter with a veto right any shinangins the GC president would try to impose which proved vital otherwise we never get a look in as GCs would always vote in their own man."

I would have NO PROBLEM at all voting for Sener Levent president, or professor Kizilyurek, or Sevgul Uludag, or the late Ozkur Ozgur. Frankly I think anyone of them would be a better president for Cyprus than any of the GCs voted in since 1960.

But you are missing the point VP. In the begininng obviously the chances of a TC becoming president will be pretty slim. In time it will be more and more likely, as Kikapu points out above regarding Obama. I believe that all citizens in a democracy should have the right to aspire to the highest office. The guarantees issue is separate from this. There are ways to safeguard the rights of communities without taking away this vital right to elect and be elected to the highest office.

It surprises me to hear this talk of equality of the two communities but always in conjunction with permanent political separation woven in the system.

Just think of it from the point of view of a child who says when I grow up I want to become president, only to be told that because of his or her ethnic origin he cannot, because he belongs to the side that elects the second in rank.

What do we do in the meantime while GCs continuously vote for a GC president who kicks the shit out of us at every opportunity? isnt it better to tell your child that you have a chance of becoming vice president with an effective input than no chance of ever being elected president because of a racist GC electorate?

[Kikapu]

perhaps your reflecting on the 18% racist notion and ideology.

Answer the question please, how on earth would we have a chance with the electorate being GC 80% racist, who would rather die than vote for a TC president.

Who would have ever thought that minority blacks (10%) in the USA could ever become a President despite having been slaves for few hundred years, denied their civil rights for another hundred years where segregation was the order of the day, in which the whites were the rulers. I believe you thought the same way too VP, even up to November 4th elections. Well VP, time does not stand still and people move forward with the times.

To answer your concerns in another way, I would eliminate all political parties and just create 3 main ones and let all people choose which party they want to belong to, so that we can all vote on ideology and not because the candidate is a GC or a TC. I would also go as far as saying, let each Presidential candidate only choose a running mate for the vice presidential post from the opposing ethnic group, so that there are always a TC and a GC in power simultaneously who would be elected by those from both major communities. This would go a long way to creating a political equality and a one man one vote system in a True Democracy.

We are talking GCs and TCs here, they are politically immature and would under no circumstancies come together as parties let alone vote for the other side.

This is what VP was saying about Americans and Obama:

You obviously haven't been to the USA, these people are still very racist just like the GCs and believe they are the chosen race again just like the GCs, whites may have voted for Obama but in the general election there will not be enough of them to get him in, Clinton would have been a better match for McCain, who is now guaranteed presidency.

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?p=312234

What if he is not elected? will that prove how wrong you are? that your Jack and Norry story that you have us all believe is not reality, just as you do not see the reality in the TRNC how could you, you have not even been here, but I have been to the states many times and travelled from east to west. Will you weave another one of your stories when he loses the race, maybe you'll tell us about the one about that he was not voted in because of his policies or due to the make of his suit. You vomit words that look good on paper but hold no truth or substance.

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?p=312362

Piratis,

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?p=312234
http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?p=312362

Thanks for posting the links above on VP's and my positions on Obama's then upcoming Presidential elections. I just had another good read and I hope VP and other non belivers of TC's and GC's forming a life together can think their positions again.

I am yet to receive any congratulations from VP on my predictions on Obama's victory.

Perhaps he is suffering from the same effects as John McCain, who said recently since his defeat, that

"he sleeps like a baby now, in which he sleeps for 2 hours and then wakes up crying and sleeps another 2 hours and wakes up crying again".

[BlackBolt]

The newly found we are all "Cypriots" mentality the GCs peddle is equal to assimilation for TCs, where was this ideology in 1963? It will take more than a few people to say well don't look at it like we are 2 communities we should be thinking as one, this will take lots of goodwill and time to achieve because for now neither side trusts the other and until safeguards are put in place to ensure people know where they stand and what their limits are no solution will be agreed.

You will never get a 80% GC population to vote in a TC president if it has taken the Black in the USA hundreds of years we need thousands, the GCs are the ones who have the upper hand in this issue so of course they will support this viewpoint which means no more than surrender your future into the hands of the GCs, which we will never do.

I like you VP, you're a good guy.

[Piratis]

VP is right to think that we would never vote for a racist TC like himself. But most GCs would not have a problem at all to vote for a TC with the mentality of Kikapu.

In fact I would personally not have a problem if there would be required that at least 1 every 5 presidents is a TC, as long as the president is always elected by the Cypriot people as a whole. It is unacceptable for a leader of a country to be elected by just the 9% of the votes.

Kikapu supports you views 100% thats why you would not have a problem with him, would you vote for Bananiot is the real question?

Exactly VP. I would vote for somebody who shares my views regardless of his language, religion or ethnic background, while I would not vote for somebody who shares my language, ethnic background and religion (me and Bananiot are both atheists) if we do not share the same views.

[Kikapu]

perhaps your reflecting on the 18% racist notion and ideology.

Answer the question please, how on earth would we have a chance with the electorate being GC 80% racist, who would rather die than vote for a TC president.

Who would have ever thought that minority blacks (10%) in the USA could ever become a President despite having been slaves for few hundred years, denied their civil rights for another hundred years where segregation was the order of the day, in which the whites were the rulers. I believe you thought the same way too VP, even up to November 4th elections. Well VP, time does not stand still and people move forward with the times.

To answer your concerns in another way, I would eliminate all political parties and just create 3 main ones and let all people choose which party they want to belong to, so that we can all vote on ideology and not because the candidate is a GC or a TC. I would also go as far as saying, let each Presidential candidate only choose a running mate for the vice presidential post from the opposing ethnic group, so that there are always a TC and a GC in power simultaneously who would be elected by those from both major communities. This would go a long way to creating a political equality and a one man one vote system in a True Democracy.

We are talking GCs and TCs here, they are politically immature and would under no circumstancies come together as parties let alone vote for the other side.

Then I would suggest to those who do not wish to be just Cypriots and act like civilized citizens of Cyprus can choose to go and live in Turkey or Greece respectively and see how far they will get being accepted in the political systems of those countries. At some point we need to respect our Cypriotness over just being a TC or a GC. This is how things are done in civilized nations or they have wars. It is a simple choice to make. Peace or war.

The newly found we are all "Cypriots" mentality the GCs peddle is equal to assimilation for TCs, where was this ideology in 1963? It will take more than a few people to say well don't look at it like we are 2 communities we should be thinking as one, this will take lots of goodwill and time to achieve because for now neither side trusts the other and until safeguards are put in place to ensure people know where they stand and what their limits are no solution will be agreed.

You will never get a 80% GC population to vote in a TC president if it has taken the Black in the USA hundreds of years we need thousands, the GCs are the ones who have the upper hand in this issue so of course they will support this viewpoint which means no more than surrender your future into the hands of the GCs, which we will never do.

If one is from Cyprus, then that person is a Cypriot VP and no one can take that away from you, so Cypriotism is not a new concept because it comes with the territory whether you like it or not. It is no different than any other nationality. It is those who seek partition that find the word "Cypriotism" very annoying. You like to go back to 1963 as if one's Cypriotism ended for some or became more for others. Internal conflicts within one nation and it's citizens is hardly a new event, because if that was the case, we would not need a police force what so ever, because there would be no crime between our own people. If you told me there are no crimes in the north and there are no TC's or Turks as prisoners for committing crimes, then your words will have more meaning to them. The fact that the opposite is the truth, as the case is in any country, there are always going to be conflicts between all citizens and between themselves, and no matter what kinds of safeguards you ask for, it will never be enough, because countries where death penalty is the ultimate so called justice to prevent murders, the jails are full of murderers, so get with the reality of the Human Race and stop living in the Fantasy-land of the Never Never Land.

I have already told you last night. I would recommend that a GC or a TC running for President must have a running mate as a vice president from the other community. This way the TC's and GC's are voting together for the same ticket. If the President dies or is impeached while in office, then the vice president takes over as a President, then he or she will then appoint a vice president different from his or her ethnicity. This method will solve all your problems regarding the numerical imbalances between the TC's and the GC's. Let the best GC/TC team win the Presidency and the vice Presidency with the support of all Cypriots who vote for them.

This should help you get a little closer to embracing your Cypriotness just that little bit easier, if you had any desires in calling yourself a Cypriot that is.