Cyprus-Forum.com

[Bananiot]

Piratis, you are being grossly childish again. In 1960 we signed an agreement in Cyprus to set up a Republic where Greek and Turkish Cypriots would be equal partners. In each country the conditions that existed when the state was set up are different. Each one is a unigue case in itself. Do us all a favour and stop the meaningless generalisations because you are defaming greekness, albeit, without realising it, perhaps.

[DT.]

Piratis, you are being grossly childish again. In 1960 we signed an agreement in Cyprus to set up a Republic where Greek and Turkish Cypriots would be equal partners. In each country the conditions that existed when the state was set up are different. Each one is a unigue case in itself. Do us all a favour and stop the meaningless generalisations because you are defaming greekness, albeit, without realising it, perhaps.

do you get all your quotes from christofias?

[Piratis]

It was our national poet who repeated "only the truth serves the national interests" but you wouldn't know about it. You think picking f(cyber) fights with Turkish extremists will save the day for us. Couldn't be more wrong.

I don't think anybody believes that picking fights with Turkish extremists will save anything. We only reply to those extremists to restore the truth, nothing more that that.

On the other hand you think that kissing Turkish ass will save the day, and you couldn't be more wrong.

[Piratis]

Piratis, you are being grossly childish again. In 1960 we signed an agreement in Cyprus to set up a Republic where Greek and Turkish Cypriots would be equal partners. In each country the conditions that existed when the state was set up are different. Each one is a unigue case in itself. Do us all a favour and stop the meaningless generalisations because you are defaming greekness, albeit, without realising it, perhaps.

You didn't say this for the Muslim minority of Greece though, did you? When Greece was established wasn't it agreed that those people are just a Muslim minority and that there is no other minority? So why don't you apply what you preach in the case of Greece? Why don't you say that those Muslims should just lump it and shut up about being Turkish, because there is some agreement that says that they are not Turkish but just Muslim?

[Get Real!]

In 1960 we signed an agreement in Cyprus to set up a Republic where Greek and Turkish Cypriots would be equal partners.

So what? Neither Turkey nor the "TRNC" recognize the RoC for longer than I can remember. Any "equal partnership" that may have been entered into in 1960 has long been abandoned and officialy declared null and void by them in every way possible.

[Piratis]

I am consistent and I support the same thing for all minorities and all people even if some past agreement have unfairly removed some of their rights.

I support that all minorities should have the right to identify as they wish, that they should have full human and democratic rights, that they should have minority rights protecting their culture, language, religion or any other unique characteristics, and that if they are under represented in any important area (e.g. government, universities etc) that there should be affirmative actions in order to correct this.

Beyond that the citizens should all be equal with each other, one person one vote, and the democratic decisions should be respected by all.

What I say is based on principles and you can apply this in Greece, Turkey and Cyprus and it will better for all.

Now if you don't give a damn about principles, but you think that everybody should accept whatever can be enforced because this is the "real world", then do the same for all cases. You sound pathetic when you don't support the just cause of your own people, and at the same time you come here to support the cause of the Muslims of Greece.

[Kifeas]

Piratis, you are being grossly childish again. In 1960 we signed an agreement in Cyprus to set up a Republic where Greek and Turkish Cypriots would be equal partners. In each country the conditions that existed when the state was set up are different. Each one is a unigue case in itself. Do us all a favour and stop the meaningless generalisations because you are defaming greekness, albeit, without realising it, perhaps.

For the record, and in order to restore Bananiot's lies, we neither as Cypriots (GCs and TCs) negotiated, nor reached an agreement in 1960, set aside one in which it was (is) mentioned that we (TCs and GCs) are partners -set aside equal ones; and I challenge bananiot to quote where in the 1960 constitution there is any such reference.

The 1960 constitution not only was not the product of an agreement -but instead one of imposition, but was also a racist and discriminatory one, against both communities! For example, it denied and prohibited the right to 18% of the people (citizens) of this country to ever run and become presidents of their own country, no matter how much popular support they would have enjoyed, only because of their ethnic origin and religion! As it is well known, the president should always have to be a GC, and no TC is allowed to become elected in this highest post of his country. Such a provision is even illegal under the Council of Europe's human rights conventions! Where is the equality between GCs and TCs that Bananiot talks about? This is one of the numerous examples of illegal inequalities and racist discriminations that exist in this 1960 constitution, which was not (and could never have possibly been) the product of an agreement between the two communities and among the people of Cyprus!

[Nikitas]

"Why is it a crime to refer to these groups of people as minorities? "

Bananiot, you got me there! Living in Greece for 35 years I have never heard of a criminial offence involving the manner in which minorities are labeled. Perhaps you are referring to the official terminology regarding minorities, in the sense that once you name them then you must grant them a special status as is the case with the Moslems, and when that happens eventually some foreign country will appear as their "motherland" and by adoption of the minority claim rights within Greece. Bearing this in mind it is no surprise that officially Greece refuses to refer to any minorities, but that is a far cry from criminalising any reference to them.

I find this attitude prefectly understandable following the disaster of 1923. Greece retreated to its absolute minimum territory in which she has managed to house all its nationals. If anyone has a problem with this they can go to hell.

Despite the criticism leveled against the Greeks they have extended a humane welcome to foreign workers from neighboring countries, some of which actively campaign against Greece on minorities issues. I am often surprised and sometimes shocked by the tolerance and patience shown by Greece to some of its cheeky neighbors and the absence of any demand for an exchange in return of its hospitality to their nationals.

Since you like Nikos Demou, then you should read what he says about the Greek right wing. He says that it has disqualified itself ideolgically and has voluntarily taken a second role in the cultural life of Greece. He adds that it has by default yileded the cultural leadership to the Left.

In some ways this is perceptible when you pick up most Greek papers and follow the media. It seems like all left wing causes and attitudes, from animal rights to drug decriminalisatin, to flag burning, are OK. Any sign of traditional patriotism is subject to ridicule and satire. If you can watch Lazopoulos on TV you will see what Nikos Demou means, Lazopoulos show is the most popular according to viewership surveys and always anti patriotic.

[Nikitas]

Kifeas said:

"For example, it denied and prohibited the right to 18% of the people (citizens) of this country to ever run and become presidents of their own country, "

Well said Kifeas!

The implicit racism of the 1960 constitution always bothered me. The suprise is that TCs seem to accept this racist limitation without question. Whichever way you look at it, it is offensive to ask people to be part of a nation in which they cannot aspire to the highest office.

At university in London I tried to raise the point with some TC fellow students and I got blank stares and the stock reply "how can a TC ever be voted president of Cyprus when the majority are GCs". It was shocking to see racists rationale so deeply entrenched in the thinking of a generation.

[purdey]

Welcome to the EU, the days of self ownership are fast dwindling Cyprus like many European countries is now the domain of all Europeans, you just lag behind a little in adapting.