Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nikitas]

Thrace, OK now I know.

You are reading propaganda again. I have been to Thrace, more than once. In Komotini, Didymotiho, Xanthi, there are shops with Turkish signs, streets that have Turkish names, there are functioning mosques, women go ab out wearing scarves. Schools have Turkish curriculum and books sent over from Turkey. Your information on Thrace is heavily tainted with nonsense. Now show us how equal rights are enjoyed by the remnants of the Greek communities in Istanbul, Imvros, Tenedos and Smyrni. And the most telling evidence of all, the Turkish community in Greece is increasing, while the Greek community in Turkey has disappeared.

You should take a trip to Imvros and Tenedos sometime, to see the fate of northern Cyprus in another 10 to 15 years. You will not like it, believe me!

[bigOz]

Thrace, OK now I know.

You are reading propaganda again. I have been to Thrace, more than once. In Komotini, Didymotiho, Xanthi, there are shops with Turkish signs, streets that have Turkish names, there are functioning mosques, women go ab out wearing scarves. Schools have Turkish curriculum and books sent over from Turkey. Your information on Thrace is heavily tainted with nonsense. Now show us how equal rights are enjoyed by the remnants of the Greek communities in Istanbul, Imvros, Tenedos and Smyrni. And the most telling evidence of all, the Turkish community in Greece is increasing, while the Greek community in Turkey has disappeared.

You should take a trip to Imvros and Tenedos sometime, to see the fate of northern Cyprus in another 10 to 15 years. You will not like it, believe me!

I do not make propaganda! You are talking about Greece now, I am talking about Greece some 15 years ago or more...

As for what had happened to Greeks in Turkey, I never claimed nothing happened. The argument was something else and the point made referred to that!

[Michalism]

If the objective in these debates is to be right then all these long discussion threads about the Cyprus Problem will ever be is just empty debates. Do not get me wrong healthy debates are good and more often than not lead to a conclusion even if the conclusion is the cliche "we will agree that we disagree" (not an acceptable result for me but better than attacking each other forever). The problem with THESE debates is that they are not healthy because they almost without exception end up becoming personal attacks. It would be great if everyone made an effort to debate the issues without getting personal. I know this can be difficult sometimes especially if the person feels personally wronged by the other side. I do not think anyone can argue that a war is a good thing, but it happened to us...all of us. Now we have to find ways to undo what the war has created.

Allow me to speak from a selfish point of view to make a point. I prefer to be peaceful and happy than right and miserable. The current situation in Cyprus does not make me happy, quite the opposite it makes me very unhappy. I can argue the GC side to death but if my objective is to win the debate as a GC I am setting up myself for a huge disappointment. The parallels with the previous conquerors that have been ruling Cyprus for hundreds of years do not apply here in my opinion. This is not about safeguarding the Greek civilization on an occupied island. The Greek culture and civilization are safe. Nobody is threatening its existence whatever the plan is called...Annan or otherwise. The diffrence now is the European Union. We have to accept however that the TCs are Cypriots too and they have a right to live on this island not as guests but as citizens with the same rights as the GCs. Democracy could have never worked in our situation since the TCs are a large minority. When the result of voting is always aniticipated to be the same in favor of the same majority i.e. the GCs then this is not a true democracy. If a TC had the same chance to be elected President of the Republic as a GC this would be a true democracy. Unfortuntely our situation is comparable to the racism in the US. The whites agains the blacks. It took the US hundreds of years to somewhat overcome the racist divide and elect a black President. This is true democracy. In our case the only way to guarantee true Democracy at this juncture is to allow the TCs to be an entity in a Federation with certain rights guranteed to them until we reach a stage when it will not matter if a Cypriot Citizen is a GC or a TC in the Republic of Cyprus.

If only we could expend all this energy in truly trying to find ways that connect us, ways that CAN lead to the re-unification of our island. We are already a miniature state. Creating two smaller states out of a miniature one borders the ridiculous. A succesful marriage is based on a premise of compromise. If a husband and a wife try to be proven right all the time then one will have to be wrong and this is exactly what should be avoided at all cost if divorce should not be an option. Let's not be right let's be peaceful and happy and let's forgive in both directions for the sake of our children!

Some fine words indeed.

We need to realise that we all need to current round of negotiations between the 2 sets of leaders to succeed otherwise negotiated partition may be the only option remaining.

The only option remaining is the liberation of our country. If you want that kind of democracy then why don't you apply it to Turkey with the Kurds? Double faced criminal hypocrites!

Nobody said that what the Turks do with the Kurds is right. I agree with you that the same kind of Democracy that I propose here should be applied for the Kurds in Turkey if this is what the Kurds want. Of course before all that happens they should be allowed to learn their own language and enjoy their culture. One of the main reasons why Turkey is not considered for entry in the EU is their terrible record on HUman Rights when it comes to the Kurds

[Nikitas]

I have been living in Greece for 35 years, ever since the invasion. The restrictions you are claiming were part of this pro western anti communist crap that Greece faithfully applied to please her western allies. Whole areas next to the border with Bulgaria, where most Turkish people live, were under a special system.

As soon as the cause was lifted in 1989-90 things returned to normal for everyone living in the border areas. The fact being that now life there is normal. When is Turkey going to restore normality for her minorities?

Again to all who want to see repression in action, I say go to Imvros and Tenedos. You will see the future of the north of Cyprus as Turkey plans it.

[Michalism]

If the objective in these debates is to be right then all these long discussion threads about the Cyprus Problem will ever be is just empty debates. Do not get me wrong healthy debates are good and more often than not lead to a conclusion even if the conclusion is the cliche "we will agree that we disagree" (not an acceptable result for me but better than attacking each other forever). The problem with THESE debates is that they are not healthy because they almost without exception end up becoming personal attacks. It would be great if everyone made an effort to debate the issues without getting personal. I know this can be difficult sometimes especially if the person feels personally wronged by the other side. I do not think anyone can argue that a war is a good thing, but it happened to us...all of us. Now we have to find ways to undo what the war has created.

Allow me to speak from a selfish point of view to make a point. I prefer to be peaceful and happy than right and miserable. The current situation in Cyprus does not make me happy, quite the opposite it makes me very unhappy. I can argue the GC side to death but if my objective is to win the debate as a GC I am setting up myself for a huge disappointment. The parallels with the previous conquerors that have been ruling Cyprus for hundreds of years do not apply here in my opinion. This is not about safeguarding the Greek civilization on an occupied island. The Greek culture and civilization are safe. Nobody is threatening its existence whatever the plan is called...Annan or otherwise. The diffrence now is the European Union. We have to accept however that the TCs are Cypriots too and they have a right to live on this island not as guests but as citizens with the same rights as the GCs. Democracy could have never worked in our situation since the TCs are a large minority. When the result of voting is always aniticipated to be the same in favor of the same majority i.e. the GCs then this is not a true democracy. If a TC had the same chance to be elected President of the Republic as a GC this would be a true democracy. Unfortuntely our situation is comparable to the racism in the US. The whites agains the blacks. It took the US hundreds of years to somewhat overcome the racist divide and elect a black President. This is true democracy. In our case the only way to guarantee true Democracy at this juncture is to allow the TCs to be an entity in a Federation with certain rights guranteed to them until we reach a stage when it will not matter if a Cypriot Citizen is a GC or a TC in the Republic of Cyprus.

If only we could expend all this energy in truly trying to find ways that connect us, ways that CAN lead to the re-unification of our island. We are already a miniature state. Creating two smaller states out of a miniature one borders the ridiculous. A succesful marriage is based on a premise of compromise. If a husband and a wife try to be proven right all the time then one will have to be wrong and this is exactly what should be avoided at all cost if divorce should not be an option. Let's not be right let's be peaceful and happy and let's forgive in both directions for the sake of our children!

Some fine words indeed.

We need to realise that we all need to current round of negotiations between the 2 sets of leaders to succeed otherwise negotiated partition may be the only option remaining.

I do not know of any GC who would argue against the right of TCs to reside in a whole and undivided Cyprus, as they once surely did, despite their gripes, shared by us also.

However, from where I am standing, it is the GCs that do not have the right to reside in Cyprus either as guests or citizens ... except for residing in a fragment of what used to be just Cyprus!

There is another way to look at this: The GCs are the only ones living in the ONLY Republic of Cyprus whereas the TCs live in an illegal state only recognized by Turkey. We the GCs enjoy all the benefits of living in a legitimate state which also happens to be a member of the EU. What I said was that in the future when the reunification will happen we should be careful not to repeat the mistakes of the past that could lead us to a dysfunctional democracy

[Get Real!]

That's the problem! The ball(s) are in his hands and there is none between the legs! Talk is cheap and we ave already seen it during 74 when the shit hit the fan; these fanatic wankers disappeared from the stage, leaving the poor civilian GCs face the music and suffer the consequences.

I agree with you completely, why Sotos has not liberated the island over the past 35 years? Now it is a little too late to expect forigners to do it for him, like they did it in Crete, Trakya, and many other aegean islands...

There’s nothing funnier than seeing “brave” Ottoman remnants acting tough while hiding behind Turkey when in actual fact EOKA had beaten the TMT to a pulp.

These days it’s even more ridiculous to brag while still hiding behind Turkey, because today’s National Guard has the capability of not only roasting your useless KTEK but also the 37,000 odd Turkish troops illegally stationed on the island if no Turkish reinforcements arrive.

Your “bravery” is entirely dependant on non-stop arrivals of endless Turkish reinforcements from the mainland so you might want to reconsider the actual size of that Ottoman scrotum being peddled.

You and your musdering EOKA pigs were so fucking brave, TCs managed to keep them off their enclaves for 11 years - outnumbered by 4 to 1... and armed with far inferior weaponary! Only 500 mainland soldiers in Gonyeli held off 2000 well armed mainland Greek and GC soldiers backed by artillery and tanks for more than 24 hours at the beginning of the 74 invasion - WHERE WAS YOUR EOKA THEN RE GUMBARE???

Oh right! So you were THAT successful eh?

So what’s all the talk about a TC GENOCIDE then???

It looks like you’ve got your G-string in a twist there haven’t you “brave” one?

[Viewpoint]

Why on earth do you GCs always divert from Cyprus to every other world problem, you are the problem once you have yourselves sorted out and accept us as equal partners all will be resolved.

[free_cyprus]

To find a solution for Cyprus we must abandon the idea of mother land there is only one mother land and that’s Cyprus we must also abandon all ideas that we are Greeks and Turks in Cyprus we speak Greek and Turkish but we are not Greeks and Turks we must also acknowledge the fact that our fathers and grandfathers have committed crimes against Cypriot people in the name of so called mother lands and even today in their thinking and thoughts they disgrace us all as Cypriots. We must be free from turkey Greece and Britain we must come to the green line and have a protest called burning of the Zurich agreement and to find new solutions for our beloved Cyprus and our people Cyprus people through out history have been repressed and enslaved by those so called mother lands , Cyprus people of today have no identity they have no education and they have no moral obligations towards our brothers and sisters from all parts of Cyprus if we want to have a united one Cyprus we must pull down the Turkish Greek and English flags from our land and have our own flag we must not have Turkish or Greek army on Cyprus soil Cyprus has never declared war in the entire history of the human race against anyone so there for its just and right we do not have an army on the island at all as the flag symbolizes a dove with a olive tree try and be proud in your thinking your outlook and in your pride that we are Cypriots not Turks or Greeks I have no doubt some people in this forum will criticize what I have written but then again most of you who know me in the forum will know my views from previous posts

[Oracle]

If the objective in these debates is to be right then all these long discussion threads about the Cyprus Problem will ever be is just empty debates. Do not get me wrong healthy debates are good and more often than not lead to a conclusion even if the conclusion is the cliche "we will agree that we disagree" (not an acceptable result for me but better than attacking each other forever). The problem with THESE debates is that they are not healthy because they almost without exception end up becoming personal attacks. It would be great if everyone made an effort to debate the issues without getting personal. I know this can be difficult sometimes especially if the person feels personally wronged by the other side. I do not think anyone can argue that a war is a good thing, but it happened to us...all of us. Now we have to find ways to undo what the war has created.

Allow me to speak from a selfish point of view to make a point. I prefer to be peaceful and happy than right and miserable. The current situation in Cyprus does not make me happy, quite the opposite it makes me very unhappy. I can argue the GC side to death but if my objective is to win the debate as a GC I am setting up myself for a huge disappointment. The parallels with the previous conquerors that have been ruling Cyprus for hundreds of years do not apply here in my opinion. This is not about safeguarding the Greek civilization on an occupied island. The Greek culture and civilization are safe. Nobody is threatening its existence whatever the plan is called...Annan or otherwise. The diffrence now is the European Union. We have to accept however that the TCs are Cypriots too and they have a right to live on this island not as guests but as citizens with the same rights as the GCs. Democracy could have never worked in our situation since the TCs are a large minority. When the result of voting is always aniticipated to be the same in favor of the same majority i.e. the GCs then this is not a true democracy. If a TC had the same chance to be elected President of the Republic as a GC this would be a true democracy. Unfortuntely our situation is comparable to the racism in the US. The whites agains the blacks. It took the US hundreds of years to somewhat overcome the racist divide and elect a black President. This is true democracy. In our case the only way to guarantee true Democracy at this juncture is to allow the TCs to be an entity in a Federation with certain rights guranteed to them until we reach a stage when it will not matter if a Cypriot Citizen is a GC or a TC in the Republic of Cyprus.

If only we could expend all this energy in truly trying to find ways that connect us, ways that CAN lead to the re-unification of our island. We are already a miniature state. Creating two smaller states out of a miniature one borders the ridiculous. A succesful marriage is based on a premise of compromise. If a husband and a wife try to be proven right all the time then one will have to be wrong and this is exactly what should be avoided at all cost if divorce should not be an option. Let's not be right let's be peaceful and happy and let's forgive in both directions for the sake of our children!

Some fine words indeed.

We need to realise that we all need to current round of negotiations between the 2 sets of leaders to succeed otherwise negotiated partition may be the only option remaining.

I do not know of any GC who would argue against the right of TCs to reside in a whole and undivided Cyprus, as they once surely did, despite their gripes, shared by us also.

However, from where I am standing, it is the GCs that do not have the right to reside in Cyprus either as guests or citizens ... except for residing in a fragment of what used to be just Cyprus!

There is another way to look at this: The GCs are the only ones living in the ONLY Republic of Cyprus whereas the TCs live in an illegal state only recognized by Turkey. We the GCs enjoy all the benefits of living in a legitimate state which also happens to be a member of the EU. What I said was that in the future when the reunification will happen we should be careful not to repeat the mistakes of the past that could lead us to a dysfunctional democracy

Look at the behaviour of the British in Northern Island in the 60's, 70's and 80's and tell me if that sort of behaviour is acceptable within Western nations these days. Yet it was applauded by most in the UK at that time. People have changed drastically over the last few decades and if some TCs fought with some GCs in the 60's because they still wanted more Turkish influence on the Island; come the re-unification, I am sure those TCs will not behave in the same way. Certainly the GCs of today are extremely sophisticated, savvy and democratic to an extent never dreamed of in the Courts of Athens

[Bananiot]

You sounded like a ... kuroupettos, kuroupettos, that is all.