Cyprus-Forum.com

[Get Real!]

That so much of your "tribe" even convinces themselves that they are Cypriot Cypriot...

If Cyprus is Greek why are you not liberating her? No guts no glory I’m afraid…

Greece had to liberate every square mile, from Macedonia down to Crete. And this was done fighting a common enemy.

Turkey has never made any concessions in her history, and it is about time we looked over to Greece for some inspiration. But to do what Greece did in the past requires strong leadership (Statesmanship) and years of preparation. The people need to prepare themselves psychologically and mentally for this kind of sacrifice. Cyprus has done it before and so have many other countries around the world. Unfortunately, Cyprus has no leadership, and the people are being depressed into a defeatist way of thinking, which will eventually take over all of our society. The danger is the possibility that the Cypriot people may be brain washed to accept an unfair peace settlement such as the Annan Plan. Even history books are being altered and very soon Cyprus will adopt a new generation of Bananiots, unless parents are proactive in the education of their children, which does not neglect the teaching of Cypriot History such as the glorious EOKA campaign of the 1950s.

I don't see any relevance to what I asked...

[Paphitis]

That so much of your "tribe" even convinces themselves that they are Cypriot Cypriot...

If Cyprus is Greek why are you not liberating her? No guts no glory I’m afraid…

Greece had to liberate every square mile, from Macedonia down to Crete. And this was done fighting a common enemy.

Turkey has never made any concessions in her history, and it is about time we looked over to Greece for some inspiration. But to do what Greece did in the past requires strong leadership (Statesmanship) and years of preparation. The people need to prepare themselves psychologically and mentally for this kind of sacrifice. Cyprus has done it before and so have many other countries around the world. Unfortunately, Cyprus has no leadership, and the people are being depressed into a defeatist way of thinking, which will eventually take over all of our society. The danger is the possibility that the Cypriot people may be brain washed to accept an unfair peace settlement such as the Annan Plan. Even history books are being altered and very soon Cyprus will adopt a new generation of Bananiots, unless parents are proactive in the education of their children, which does not neglect the teaching of Cypriot History such as the glorious EOKA campaign of the 1950s.

I don't see any relevance to what I asked...

Well, to answer your question, Cyprus is not Greek. We are Hellenised, but also independant. Just like Australia is Anglo Saxon, but not England.

We all want a free and independent Cyprus. We cannot expect Greece to fight our battles to achieve this either. And how do you expect anyone to help us as we are not even prepared to help ourselves? No country will make this sacrifice for Cyprus unless Cyprus is prepared to make the sacrifice herself. And I go back to an earlier point you made yourself on this forum. Cyprus needs to build new alliances and strategic bonds, as well as entering into a technology race and await for geopolitical changes which would result in other powers (France or Russia) wanting to be more influential in the East Mediterranean.

Impossible with no leadership. So keep preparing yourselves for your inevitable capitulation. We will all be wanting to live in Greece then!!!!

[Get Real!]

We are Hellenised, but also independant. Just like Australia is Anglo Saxon, but not England.

So what you’re basically saying is…

Greece gets the credit for everything Cypriot but without any responsibility of protecting her!

If there’s nothing in it for Cypriots why would anyone be so stupid to do that? It doesn’t work like that my friend. As I said… no guts no glory and it's high time you all realised it.

[Paphitis]

We are Hellenised, but also independant. Just like Australia is Anglo Saxon, but not England.

So what you’re basically saying is…

Greece gets the credit for everything Cypriot but without any responsibility of protecting her!

If there’s nothing in it for Cypriots why would anyone be so stupid to do that? It doesn’t work like that my friend. As I said… no guts no glory and it's high time you all realised it.

I think you are not so daft to not realise that Cyprus is all alone on this one. Greece has washed her hands of Cyprus and pretty much just does not care. And Cypriots are responsible for this as we have become an international joke, where everyone is just laughing.

Cyprus has no direction, no leadership and you have a phucking President who is willing to surrender 100% control over 30% of the island and 50% control over the rest of Cyprus to Turkey.

We initially wanted ENOSIS with Greece, but will actually achieve ENOSIS with Turkey! So get ready to move to Greece. But on a brighter note, we could form our own soccer team in the Greek First Division, just like AEK ATHENS!!!

Greece is not the only nation not wanting to help. Cyprus does not want to help herself either!!

[-mikkie2-]

Greece aparently voted for Turkey to be a non-permanent member of the UN security council.

That is how much Greece is helping Cyprus - Zero!

Greece is a nation wich is all talk and no action, that is why Greece finds itself in a mess with the Aegean and with FYROM. The Greek political establishment is populated by a bunch of clowns that only look after their own personal interest. And that goes for Cyprus too on both sides of the divide.

So, when it comes to the Cyprus problem, it is really only up to us. We can't fight a war in Cypurs. If we did, that would be on the same level of stupidy as the Asia Minor adventure. The only thing we can do is to use political means to change things and that means building strong links with countries and organisations that matter and can affect any outcome of negotiations on the Cyprus problem.

[Paphitis]

Greece aparently voted for Turkey to be a non-permanent member of the UN security council.

That is how much Greece is helping Cyprus - Zero!

Greece is a nation wich is all talk and no action, that is why Greece finds itself in a mess with the Aegean and with FYROM. The Greek political establishment is populated by a bunch of clowns that only look after their own personal interest. And that goes for Cyprus too on both sides of the divide.

So, when it comes to the Cyprus problem, it is really only up to us. We can't fight a war in Cypurs. If we did, that would be on the same level of stupidy as the Asia Minor adventure. The only thing we can do is to use political means to change things and that means building strong links with countries and organisations that matter and can affect any outcome of negotiations on the Cyprus problem.

Don't be such a fool.

Greece just did what any country would do under the circumstances, and that is to protect her interests and nullify Turkey as a threat by building closer relations.

Our President, declared The Joint Defence Dogma as void, and now is proceeding with phase 2 of our capitulation by running our Armed Forces into the ground. I wish you all luck, because soon you will all be living under an Apartheid System. GCs will be the second class citizens, so you might as well sit at the back of the bus in order to make room for the TCs at the front.

[Piratis]

Great! So we will wait another 100 years or 1000 yeras for the balance of power to change so that we can reclaim the north of Cyprus from the Turks!

Can't anybody come up with better arguments and better ideas as to how to solve the current problem other than waiting for the balance of power to change?

Well look whats happened in asia minor! I can't see us marching towards Constantinople or Smyrna or Trabezounta to liberate these lands from the Turks anytime soon. As the generations come and go, the memories of these places will fade away.

The point I am trying to make is that we are living in the NOW, not the future which is totally unpredictable or the past which is history. And the point is, what can we do NOW to save the future of the next generation, to give them something to hope for.

The best way is to come to an agreed solution in Cyprus so that we can move on and develop our island together and to build a future for our children. The only way to change things for the better is to engage the other side, not to push them away.

mikkie, if we could solve the problem NOW, then we would have solved it.

Making an agreement of the kind of Annan plan means surrendering north Cyprus to the Turks. Like Greece did with Asia Minor. Do you want me to tell you what happened to the Greek populations of Imbros, Tenedos, Constantinople and Asia Minor in general? I think you know.

It is clear that there is only one way to regain our lands and that requires the balance of power to change and for us to make the right moves until then (maintain our legal rights over the whole island).

The balance of power will change. This is certain. Sure, it doesn't mean we will win every war, but it doesn't mean that we will lose every one either. The Greeks won many wars against the Turks. That is how most of Greece was liberated. And at some point Greece controlled the Smyrni area as well.

If you have another way that we can liberate our lands then let me know. I just don't think there is any. If we are going to gift our lands to the Turks and call this arrangement a "solution" and "unification", then we might as well start taking LSD and have more believable illusions and start singing all together "don't worry - be happy".

[Paphitis]

We are Hellenised, but also independant. Just like Australia is Anglo Saxon, but not England.

So what you’re basically saying is…

Greece gets the credit for everything Cypriot but without any responsibility of protecting her!

If there’s nothing in it for Cypriots why would anyone be so stupid to do that? It doesn’t work like that my friend. As I said… no guts no glory and it's high time you all realised it.

If Australia was invaded by a foreign power, our mother country (England) would not be in a position to help. Australia could only expect assistance from The United States, who does have the power and logistics to protect Australia from any aggressor, as well as look after her other interests worldwide. And I am not saying that Australia would be needing this assistance, as our arms and strategic capabilities are far superior to anyone else in the region.

Greece is also unable to provide the assistance you require without the risk of losing a few islands at the very least. So why would Greece be expected to make such a sacrifice for Cyprus? Don't you think you are asking for a bit too much?

Very similar to your analogy, is it not?

Australia is known for its powerful diplomacy and has built strong alliances over the last 50+ years. We have changes in Government, but our national interests, diplomacy and Foreign Affairs are static and stable. Can you say the same about Cyprus?

[Get Real!]

We are Hellenised, but also independant. Just like Australia is Anglo Saxon, but not England.

So what you’re basically saying is…

Greece gets the credit for everything Cypriot but without any responsibility of protecting her!

If there’s nothing in it for Cypriots why would anyone be so stupid to do that? It doesn’t work like that my friend. As I said… no guts no glory and it's high time you all realised it.

Greece is also unable to provide the assistance you require without the risk of losing a few islands at the very least. So why would Greece be expected to make such a sacrifice for Cyprus? Don't you think you are asking for a bit too much?

You are no less treasonous or stupid than Miltiades so bugger off before you really piss me off. Read my PM and believe it.

[Tony-4497]

Bananiot

he came to adopt fully the Denktash line on the Cyprob and he is now calling for an agreed partition as long as we get 82% of the land.

I do not support partition - in fact my first preference is a truly unified Cyprus where TCs get a reasonable degree of autonomy but only to the extent that this does not with conflict with full human rights, incl right of return for all refugees, freedom of movement, democracy i.e. proportional representation, etc.

If, however, the above (i.e. true unification) is not possible, then the percentage of land we get becomes extremely important - this is because any other solution will in practice be a disguised partition of some sort - which will most likely develop into an "official" partition. This is explained in more detail in my post copied below

Piratis

I fully agree with your analysis above. GCs have absolutely nothing to gain from the above solution, which is largely the Annan plan, other than getting back a tiny percentage of the stolen land - and even that is highly uncertain as it will be subject to Turkey keeping promises to move out the settler and TC population etc (she could find many excuses not to do this after the solution i.e. can't find alternative housing, "humanitarian" reasons etc - and noone would in practice be able to force her to - as noone forced her to open the ports to RoC as per the EU Ankara agreement she signed).

In return for this tiny bit of land, GCs would not only have to legalise the theft of the rest of their land as you mentioned, but, more importantly in my view, agree to abolish the Republic of Cyprus, which is the only reason GCs still exist and prosper today.

Allowing what Christofias called an "equal partnership of two component states" (i.e. "United Cyprus") to replace the RoC as a country (i.e. UN and EU member state) means that once the highly complex and full of grey areas power sharing arrangements (that will necessarily, by definition, exist in any such solution) come to a deadlock for any reason, GCs will no longer have a country. The "equal partnership" will clearly not be able to function without one of the "equal partners" and GCs will lose their voice in the UN, the EU, access to international justice etc.

Following the above scenario (which is exactly what Turkey will activate - and they would be stupid not to), IF we are lucky, the EU etc will recognise 2 separate states in Cyprus and the 18% TCs will end up with 30% of land and 50% of coastline. If we are not lucky, we will continue as an unrecognised pariah state (much as the current TRNC) begging for a guardian to protect us.

I believe that for both GCs and TCs to accept any such arranagement (i.e. "equal partnership of 2 component states"), the land sharing should be 82:18 and there should be clear provisions stating that if for any reason the "partnership" breaks down, then both component states will automatically become full UN and EU members. There should also be EU/ Nato guarantees and the solution and abolishment of RoC should only take place at the same time as Turkey hands over the land to GCs and not a minute before.