Cyprus-Forum.com

[DT.]

Nikitas you have repeatedly referred to what Klerides said to Panayiotarea and also to the aegean issues between Greece and Turkey. I would like to question your notion that we are totally justified in our claims and that Turkey is always the bad boy. In fact, every time I hear or see in the news tha Turkey is at it again, I always think that there is something the Greek government wants to hide from the people and tries to divert attention by employing an old trick, the fear of the eternal enemy. I must admit, it always works but this is always at the expence of transparency.

Correct me If I am wrong, but does Greece mean to have 6 miles of territorial waters (χωρικά ύδατα in Greek) and 10 miles of national air space? Is there another country in the world where the τerritorial water is not the same as the national aerospace? Is it not true that the majority of the dog fights between Greek and Turkish jets take place within this 6 to 10 miles space? Is it not also true that Greek war planes also violate the Turkish aerospace? Is it not true that these daily dogfights are taken as part of the practice routine of both air forces? At the same, has Greece given up on her notion of increasing the territorial waters to 10 miles? In this case wouldn't the Aegean Sea become a Greek lake?

Bananiot, Greece has every right just like every other country in the world to have a 12 mile coastline and a 12 mile FIR. As things stand now the Aegean is 45% Greek, 8% Turkish and the rest is high seas (international waters) If Greece proceeds with the establishment of the 12 mile rule just as Turkey has in the Black Sea then the percentages will be 75% Greek, 10% Turkish (because Turkey will also increase to 12, and the International waters will be the rest.

The fact that Greece is threatened by a cassus belli from turkey in case of the increase to 12 miles and does not act on it so far should not be seen as a right or wrong move but only as a threatened move.

Be happy that Greece has not provoked its strong neighbour so far and do not complain that the 10 mile minimum FIR it has, is continuously breached by Turkey.

[DT.]

How about Klerides DT? Do you agree with everything that is thrown at the old man by some forumers?

Kifeas is being more than naive to believe that the policies of the USA will change because a new man will occupy the white house. This is a ridiculous notion that cannot seriously stand up to criticism. It is also naive to believe that the EU will come to our aid and help us out in case Turkey pushes for recognition of the "TRNC". It is extremely absurd to believe this when since 2004 nobody in the EU talks about the Turkish occupation but basically the EU seems more concerned at lifting the (so called) economic isolation of the Turkish Cypriots. The world, as Kifeas envisages it will not be with us for quite a few eons yet and this is a fact well known to the great Greek minds in the classical period and Kifeas will do well to start studying them.

His inability to comprehend the way the world is run causes, it seems, great frustration to Kifeas, so much that recently he came to adopt fully the Denktash line on the Cyprob and he is now calling for an agreed partition as long as we get 82% of the land.

Bananiot, I may not buy all the conspiracy theories thrown at this man but I fail to see how a man who invented the Joint Defense Pact with Greece, ordered the S-300 missiles from Russia and performed the biggest single millitary spending spree on defense this island has ever seen can co-habit with you?

[Nikephoros]

Nikitas you have repeatedly referred to what Klerides said to Panayiotarea and also to the aegean issues between Greece and Turkey. I would like to question your notion that we are totally justified in our claims and that Turkey is always the bad boy. In fact, every time I hear or see in the news tha Turkey is at it again, I always think that there is something the Greek government wants to hide from the people and tries to divert attention by employing an old trick, the fear of the eternal enemy. I must admit, it always works but this is always at the expence of transparency.

Correct me If I am wrong, but does Greece mean to have 6 miles of territorial waters (χωρικά ύδατα in Greek) and 10 miles of national air space? Is there another country in the world where the τerritorial water is not the same as the national aerospace? Is it not true that the majority of the dog fights between Greek and Turkish jets take place within this 6 to 10 miles space? Is it not also true that Greek war planes also violate the Turkish aerospace? Is it not true that these daily dogfights are taken as part of the practice routine of both air forces? At the same, has Greece given up on her notion of increasing the territorial waters to 10 miles? In this case wouldn't the Aegean Sea become a Greek lake?

Bananut needs a good slap in real life. Just be glad every Greek does not capitulate to Turks for everything or else you would not be here on this forum. I know already many "Cypriot" losers in this forum have long ago capitulated to the Turks in not considering themselves as Greeks, instead directed by communistic propaganda they are "Cypriot Cypriots"

Turkish society is directed by the military at every instance. The Turkish foreign policy is a forumulation of military think-tanks, they are propagandized to think they are a "soldier nation", much of their population will support any coup their military conducts. Further when the average Turk hears how their country gets to dictate terms to Greece and the ROC, they are proud for this, when their country gets to contravene international law with imputiny and make constant provocations, most mohammedian Turks delight in such things.

But oh no, the Communist twerp and capitulator to the Turks, BANANUT has figured it all out, Greece is creating problems for Turkey not the other way around. If only the Greek fanatic state and nation capitulate enough to peaceful(LOL!) Mohammedian Turkey, everything will be a peaceful in the Turkey's conflicted borders with its Christian neighbors. The peace of Islam and Kemalism will reign throughout the land.

[Get Real!]

It is also naive to believe that the EU will come to our aid and help us out in case Turkey pushes for recognition of the "TRNC".

They are pushing for the recognition of their own pseudo state since 1983. It is time Bananiot to understand that the Turks just can't get whatever they want, despite what some defeatists like you think.

Another 100 years of division and who knows what will happen...the choice is yours who knows that swing you long for may even arrive

That's based on the assumption that TCs will be around 100 years from now... that would be the achievement of the millennium!

If Turkish army stay hundered years no problem. if they go, 2 days after no Tcs. You are right GR. Tcs know you are good murederes.

You're going to need TWO things to survive... money and a big arse. Of course the second might get you the first...

[-mikkie2-]

Great! So we will wait another 100 years or 1000 yeras for the balance of power to change so that we can reclaim the north of Cyprus from the Turks!

Can't anybody come up with better arguments and better ideas as to how to solve the current problem other than waiting for the balance of power to change?

Well look whats happened in asia minor! I can't see us marching towards Constantinople or Smyrna or Trabezounta to liberate these lands from the Turks anytime soon. As the generations come and go, the memories of these places will fade away.

The point I am trying to make is that we are living in the NOW, not the future which is totally unpredictable or the past which is history. And the point is, what can we do NOW to save the future of the next generation, to give them something to hope for.

The best way is to come to an agreed solution in Cyprus so that we can move on and develop our island together and to build a future for our children. The only way to change things for the better is to engage the other side, not to push them away.

[Nikephoros]

For -mikkie2- or any other "realist" or "reasonable idiot", even daring to consider of prospects of negotiating with MOSLEM Turkey, MOHAMMEDIAN TRNC or SUNNI MUSLIM Turks in general:

"Among classical [Islamic] jurists (Shaybani 1966 ;Tabari 1990. 15-6 ; Ibn Rushd 1995, 656), the peace between dar al-lslam [abode of peace] and Dar al-harb [abode of war] means the temporary suspension of military conflict. Despite their disagreement on the duration of a peace treaty, Muslim jurists are in accord on the provisional status of peace with non-believers. The term used is "hudna" meaning "truce" or "armistice". This view is totally consistent with the principle of total war against polytheism that we discussed above."

From the Canadian Thesis:
Islam and War : the disparity between the technological-normative evolution of modern war and the doctrine of Jihad
http://amicus.collectionscanada.ca/s4-b ... &rp=1&vo=1

pg. 115 but on my PDF reader it is pg. 134

Turkish National Defence Policy Document displaying the Islamic hudna concept along with traditional muslim "military josh" talk:

http://endoturkika.blogspot.com/2008/09/na...cument-and.html
The “ National Defence Policy’s Document ” (Milli Guvenlik Siyaset Belgesi) is actualised regularly (every 3-5 years) by the Secretariat of National Security Council (MGK), taking into consideration the internal and external threats for the Turkish Republic in the context of the international environment.

Mr Ali Kulebi, chairman of the Centre of Strategic Studies (TUSAM) ...

Mr Ali Kulebi ... writes: “In the current world, the loyalty of international agreements that contradict national interests constitutes a practice of weak nations!”. ...

Proud eternal leader of the Turks, showing his high regard for signing "peace" agreements, only to break them later:

"There is no doubt that England, France, Italy and Greece want to disintegrate us today. But if we make peace under the aegis of a foreign power, we shall be able in our own interest to revise its stipulations as soon as the conditions are favourable."

Ataturk, Mustafa Ghazi Kemal. The Great Speech. Ataturk Research Center, Ankara; 2005. p. 87.

[-mikkie2-]

Nikephoros,

What planet do you live on?

Please explain to me YOUR plan for sorting out the Cyprus problem.

Any ideas? Any thoughts?

Don't tell me. Let me guess.

Wait for the 'balance of power' to change. Wait another 10, or 15 or 20 years?

Start another war with the Turks?

[Nikephoros]

Hey mikkie2, "Mr. lets be reasonable with Turks" idiot...

News for you:

I do not debate solving the "Cyprus problem", this is a creation of the Greek Cypriot left to hide their huge cock-ups and inadequacies to defend their homes, their land, their country from Fanatic Mohammedian Turkish Cypriots(directed by TMT) and their motherland Turkey.

I have roots in Axaia and Lakonia, Greece, my family has nothing to do with Cyprus. I ask no one to visit my ancestral homes ever, unlike your tribe, the "lets be reasonable Cypriot Cypriots". Maybe you should ask yourselvs why I can visit my home without asking any Kemal, Hasan or Mustafa for permission and why so many of your tribe cannot.

Maybe you finally realize that covering your heads and pretending Turks are reasonable, peaceable and honest has lead to your downfall and the lack of ability for you to even defend your own homes.

[Get Real!]

Can't anybody come up with better arguments and better ideas as to how to solve the current problem other than waiting for the balance of power to change?

Of course there is...

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=17310

[Get Real!]

I have roots in Axaia and Lakonia, Greece, my family has nothing to do with Cyprus.

That's exactly why you don't belong here in the CyProb section of the forum so kindly allow those concerned to get on with solving their problems thank you.