Cyprus-Forum.com

[DT.]

help me out Piratis
'All conflicts between Cypriots and Turks were started by Turks'.
Are you talking about Turkish Cypriots or Mainland Turks or both?

1974- Greek backed coup to oust Markarios happened on 15th July 1974. Greeks killing Greeks before Turkish Army turned up on 20th July.

All conflicts between Cypriots and Turks

[Piratis]

help me out Piratis
'All conflicts between Cypriots and Turks were started by Turks'.
Are you talking about Turkish Cypriots or Mainland Turks or both?

1974- Greek backed coup to oust Markarios happened on 15th July 1974. Greeks killing Greeks before Turkish Army turned up on 20th July.

I am talking about conflicts between Cypriots and Turks.

Nobody disputes the fact, that the very first attack was made by the Turks in 1571 (and even earlier with some raids they made against Cyprus). That answers the "who started it" for those who believe that this is important.

Throughout the period of Venetian rule, Ottoman Turks raided and attacked at will. In 1489, the first year of Venetian control, Turks attacked the Karpas Peninsula, pillaging and taking captives to be sold into slavery. In 1539 the Turkish fleet attacked and destroyed Limassol. Fearing the ever-expanding Ottoman Empire, the Venetians had fortified Famagusta, Nicosia, and Kyrenia, but most other cities were easy prey.

In the summer of 1570, the Turks struck again, but this time with a full-scale invasion rather than a raid. About 60,000 troops, including cavalry and artillery, under the command of Lala Mustafa Pasha landed unopposed near Limassol on July 2, 1570, and laid siege to Nicosia. In an orgy of victory on the day that the city fell--September 9, 1570--20,000 Nicosians were put to death, and every church, public building, and palace was looted.

Ever since the Turks keep attacking the Cypriot people whenever the Cypriot people dare to ask for their own freedom and self determination.

The Turks slaughtered Cypriots by the 100s or 1000s whenever they revolted asking for their freedom, or even just with the suspicion that Cypriots will revolt.

During the Greek War of Independence in 1821, the Ottoman authorities feared that Greek Cypriots would rebel again. Archbishop Kyprianos, a powerful leader who worked to improve the education of Greek Cypriot children, was accused of plotting against the government. Kyprianos, his bishops, and hundreds of priests and important laymen were arrested and summarily hanged or decapitated on July 9, 1821.

When the Ottoman rule ended and the Turks could not harm us anymore, the Cypriot people forgave the Turks even though they had treated us like shit for 3+ centuries, and we lived together in Cyprus without any conflicts between us. Cyprus had a new ruler, the British, and the Cypriot people fought against the British to gain their freedom and self-determination as it was their right.

Unfortunately in 1958 the Turks attacked again starting a new round of conflicts, with the aim to stop Cypriots from gaining their freedom and self-determination, by helping the British oppress the Cypriot revolution (it was 1821 all over again)

These conflicts lasted until 1968, while meanwhile the Turks and British had managed to blackmail the Cypriot leader and force him in 1960 to grand to them unfair privileges on our land.

Then in 1974 the Turks attacked yet again taking advantage of a conflict which was between Greeks (as you correctly said) and not against them. Since then they continue to illegally occupy our lands.

So it is clear who started the conflicts, including the very first one. It is clear that it is the Turks who invaded Cyprus, multiple times, with the aim to enslave us and our island, occupy our lands, and prevent us from ruling our own island in a democratic way.

Yes, in the conflicts which Turks started they also had some casualties. So what? The Germans had casualties, many of them civilians, during WWII. Are we now going to declare the Nazis as the victims, like Murataga is trying to declare the invading Turks as the innocents in Cyprus?

What I am saying here are the historical facts. Should what happen in the past, and what some other people did then, affect all the people of today and of the future? Certainly not. What we need for today and for the future is human rights for all, democracy, and equality among all citizens of Cyprus, regardless of their ethnicity, race or anything else.

However some Turks are trying to falsify history by selectivity using some small bits of history that suits them (ignoring the 99% of the rest of the facts) with the same aim as the Turks always had in Cyprus: to again deny from the Cypriot people their freedom, their human rights and democracy. This is why I am forced to remind the true history to those Turks, and remind them they have no right to occupy or rule by themselves the north part of Cyprus and doing so is criminal and illegal.

[Medman]

Piratis

Are you there? I kind of see what your saying. You talk about Cypriots and Turks. Do you acknowledge that Turkish Cypriots are a separate entity to Mainland Turks today, are they all from the same brush? There is currently two communities on Cyprus. TC's and GC's or do you believe that Cypriots are of only Greek persuasion?

I read and witnessed how the events of 1974 was initially stated as an internal Greek Cypriot affair and that Turkish Cypriots need not have worried. However with Sampson (a well known Turk hater) at the helm who could honestly safeguard their safety? The TC's were also aware of the 'Akritas Plan' to wipe them off Cyprus. You saw what happened when mainland Greek officers turned on their own soldiers because of their political views. Everyone had to keep their heads down. Turk and Greek.

[Murataga]

Now we have an influx of Iranians investing heavily in the TRNC.

What is an influx by your standards? Any data?

Sorry didn't count them on the way in at Ercan but they seem interested in buying land or settling in the TRNC due to the bad restrictions/conditions they are living under in Iran. We even have them studying at our universities, their families come to visit and ask for permission to stay, ah what a multicultural country we are becoming.

ah, I am afraid you are not a country. What there is in north Cyprus is a territory which belongs to Republic of Cyprus and it is currently illegally occupied by Turkish troops. Just the facts.

No need to be afraid; we are a country (although a small one) recognized by one of the major powers in this part of the world and that seems to be woking alright for now. We are working towards improving this.

What there is in north Cyprus is Turkish Cypriots who made it out of the enclaves that the criminal GC regime shoved them in to. Those Turkish Cypriots established an effective administration and the means for their security so as to not be put in the same circumstances ever again in the 60s. Just the facts.

If by effective administration you mean by cleansing the land from its owners and using the resources these people left behind to fund a bankrupt economy then yes...you've been very effective at setting up an occupation regime. So far its done everything an occupation regime is meant to do. It came to this country by killing innocents, it then stole the land it wanted by kicking out its rightful owners and has kept that land by stationing 40,000 troops on it.

Killing, thieving and occupying.....very effective.

LEt`s do this one at a time... GDP is higher than Bulgaria that just made the EU, so I`m fine with that. The regime is that of a TC, not occupation. The TCs were kicked out of land they owned and all they did was to carve out a piece where they can live without getting murdered by the Greek troops you invited by the thousands when there was not a single batallion of the Turkish Army on this island. All the conflicts after the establishment of the RoC have been launched by the GC wing. ANd yes we do need additional reinforcement to protect ourselves from the National Guard you etsbliched before the Turkish Army arrived, before the TRNC was established and against the constitution of the RoC. Another satisfied customer - will there be anything else?

Right let's start. The GDP of Bulgaria in 2006 was $78.68 Billion https://www.cia.gov/library/publication ... nt/bu.html

and the GDP per capita is $11,800 (2007)

your gdp (which roughly means you've sold this amount of GC land this year and received this amount of Turkish handouts this year) was $1.86 billion.

The Turkish Cypriots are heavily dependent on transfers from the Turkish Government. Ankara directly finances around one-third of the "TRNC's" budget. Aid from Turkey has exceeded $400 million annually in recent years.

From CIA Factbook

And you've managed to reduce your GDP by 2% in 2007.

As for carving out a little land of their own 40,000 troops murdering, pillaging and raping their way through 37% of this island and etnically cleansing 1/3 of this islands population is a much better description. Face it...you live in our stolen homes. You can't live with it, its eating you up cause right now this minute you're stealing my home and 100,000's of other people's homes.

Killing, thieving, occupying. Your motto

NEXT!

I was referring to the GDP per capita (which I am sure you knew by heart but chose to ignore anyway). Amazing how you tip-toed around the information giving the GDP per capita of TCs at 11800$ on the same website…

You ejected me from the government for not accepting unconstitutional changes that you wanted; you kicked me out of my home first; you enclaved and embargoed me (the embargo is ongoing); you invited the Greek Army by the thousands here first; you illegally formed the National Guard and used it to launch offensives on innocent TC civilians. And all this against a community you outnumber 1-4; all this before a single turkish batallion was on the island; all this before the TRNC. You were quite alright with everything when we were in the enclaves. Now you are trying to make an argument on how I resisted and that I should feel bad about not being in an enclave? You wish.

What is eating you up is the fact that you were not able to rid the island of us; that you were not able to get us to submit to any form of GC oppression; that you never will; and despite all the odds we are doing relatively well – live with it.

[Oracle]

If we had invited the Ottoman-Turks to invade our country, then to subsequently carve it up for their consumption, perhaps we would be rude hosts if we now decided we wanted them to leave.

But they were uninvited to start with, so the "rudeness" lies with them for staying .....

[Get Real!]

I was referring to the GDP per capita (which I am sure you knew by heart but chose to ignore anyway). Amazing how you tip-toed around the information giving the GDP per capita of TCs at 11800$ on the same website…

The figures shown there for the “TRNC” are rubbish because TCs get huge annual financial handouts from Turkey so they don’t reflect the truth and are submitted by the "TRNC" themselves.

A few weeks ago when Turkey turned off the tap for the first time the entire “TRNC” came to a standstill and demonstrations were widespread… here read it yourself:

http://www.observercyprus.com/observer/ ... px?id=3118

http://www.observercyprus.com/observer/ ... px?id=3134

http://www.brtk.cc/index.php/lang/en/cat/2/news/39138

[Piratis]

Are you there? I kind of see what your saying. You talk about Cypriots and Turks. Do you acknowledge that Turkish Cypriots are a separate entity to Mainland Turks today, are they all from the same brush? There is currently two communities on Cyprus. TC's and GC's or do you believe that Cypriots are of only Greek persuasion?

I refer to Cypriots and Turks because the conflicts have all been between the Cypriots (GCs, Armenians, Latins etc) and the Turks.

Today the conflict is again between Cypriots and Turks, who maintain 40.000 troops on our island. Turkish Cypriots choose to be in the Turkish camp, so I guess they are more Turks than Cypriots. They also prefer to live among other Turks (Settlers) instead of living among Cypriots.

I read and witnessed how the events of 1974 was initially stated as an internal Greek Cypriot affair and that Turkish Cypriots need not have worried. However with Sampson (a well known Turk hater) at the helm who could honestly safeguard their safety? The TC's were also aware of the 'Akritas Plan' to wipe them off Cyprus. You saw what happened when mainland Greek officers turned on their own soldiers because of their political views. Everyone had to keep their heads down. Turk and Greek.

The "Akritas Plan", which is nothing but an anonymous document, only talks about how the Cypriot people would gain back the self-determination that was denied to them, and not about wiping out anybody. Did you read the plan?

On the other hand the taksim plan, which existed since the 50s and was executed to the letter in 74, had as a clear aim the extermination of all Greek Cypriots from the north part of their country in order to artificially create some fake Turkish state on the land stolen from us.

We didn't like Samson or the Greek Junta either, and this is why we fought against them. Why didn't TCs join those fighting against Samson, and instead they supported the Turkish invasion who indiscriminately killed and ethnically cleansed every Cypriot?

[Piratis]

You ejected me from the government for not accepting unconstitutional changes that you wanted; you kicked me out of my home first; you enclaved and embargoed me (the embargo is ongoing); you invited the Greek Army by the thousands here first; you illegally formed the National Guard and used it to launch offensives on innocent TC civilians. And all this against a community you outnumber 1-4; all this before a single turkish batallion was on the island; all this before the TRNC. You were quite alright with everything when we were in the enclaves. Now you are trying to make an argument on how I resisted and that I should feel bad about not being in an enclave? You wish.

Murataga, do you want to continue playing the "who started it" game?

When you play this game my friend, it is essential to start from the begging, not at whatever time you want.

So either stop playing this game, or accept the fact that who started are non else but the Turks. If the Turks had not started it, there would be no Turks in Cyprus and there would be no problems to begging with.

[Medman]

Piratis

I'm glad you answered back. Why didn't TC's join in the fight? Come on you're having a laugh. The TC's were outnumbered and outgunned up to the coup. There was great mistrust and EOKA 'B' were still active. The Greek Cypriots were fighting amongst themselves and having about 20,000 mainland Greek soldiers didn't help either side. I know of GC's who were slaughtered by their so called brethren. How many GC's would've welcomed TC's fighting side by side with them, considering Markarios stated that this was an eternal Greek Cypriot affair and there was a long running dispute between both communities.

[Piratis]

When did Makarios state that? Just 4 days after the coup he was giving a speech at the UN contemning the actions of the junta and asking from the international community to help him to restore order in Cyprus.

The fact is that Turkey decided that this time that Greeks were fighting each other in Cyprus it was a good time to put into action their extermination plan called "taksim" and TCs helped them to do so.