Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kifeas]

I wonder why some people waste their time with an opinionated arrogant crypto-Turk, that has swallowed wholesale the Turkish propaganda from the internet, has never even been to Cyprus, and thinks he can talk about it from as far as New Zealand.

[Get Real!]

1. The intercommunal violence sparked when President Marakios attempted to ammend the 1960 constitution, resulting in the political and economic marginalization of the Turkish Cypriot minority.

Wrong. Makarios simply made a 13 point democratic proposal and the TCs spat the dummy…

2. The Greek-backed coup d'etat of 1974, which had the goal of enosis with Greece, and the removal of the Turkish Cypriot presence on the island.

So what if some lunatics started a coup? The RoC did its duty by fighting it off whereas the “guarantor” Turkey along with the TCs took advantage of the situation and violated the treaty of Guarantee! Sweet..

3. The inalienable right of self-determination - demonstrated with the precedents of countries such as Bangladesh - which resulted in the TRNC's UDI of 1983.

Whoever said that self-determination is inalienable? Self-determination varies from constitution to constitution… in some cases it is expressly forbidden while in others a democratic majority vote is required to approve it.

Good luck finding support for “self-determination” in the RoC constitution where something as simple as 13 democratic PROPOSALS were enough reason for some to totally abandon the government and take up arms!

It’s the TCs themselves that insisted on an INFLEXIBLE constitution so it looks like they’ve shot themselves in the foot!

[DT.]

Expat,

You show me how the TCs can exercise their self determination without stealing my land and extinguising my patrimony and they can do what the hell they please.

.

bravo

[lovernomore]

Expat,

You show me how the TCs can exercise their self determination without stealing my land and extinguising my patrimony and they can do what the hell they please.

.

bravo

What bravo? in 63 you try exterminate, you dont success. In 74 you try exterminate you dont succes and Tukey kick ass. Now Tcs dont feel safe to be in diferent villages in north, south, west and east of island. They want to be togerther in one place, so you tell me how can acahive if they dont take land from you. Why you look from one side, look at big picture. You cant blame all on Tcs, you must take resposibiblity to.

[growuptcs]

lovernomore:

What bravo? in 63 you try exterminate, you dont success. In 74 you try exterminate you dont succes and Tukey kick ass. Now Tcs dont feel safe to be in diferent villages in north, south, west and east of island. They want to be togerther in one place, so you tell me how can acahive if they dont take land from you. Why you look from one side, look at big picture. You cant blame all on Tcs, you must take resposibiblity to.

nomorebrain to achieve unification, you have to be able to comprehend democracy, not idiocracy. At this point you don't, because you ask the GC's to take responsibility and sacrifice their heritage just because YOU said so and you feel that you outnumber GC's from another country. You should be honored that a few of GC's on this site give you responses to your corrupt world of politics.

[lovernomore]

lovernomore:

What bravo? in 63 you try exterminate, you dont success. In 74 you try exterminate you dont succes and Tukey kick ass. Now Tcs dont feel safe to be in diferent villages in north, south, west and east of island. They want to be togerther in one place, so you tell me how can acahive if they dont take land from you. Why you look from one side, look at big picture. You cant blame all on Tcs, you must take resposibiblity to.

nomorebrain to achieve unification, you have to be able to comprehend democracy, not idiocracy. At this point you don't, because you ask the GC's to take responsibility and sacrifice their heritage just because YOU said so and you feel that you outnumber GC's from another country. You should be honored that a few of GC's on this site give you responses to your corrupt world of politics.

So i shoud be honored for your answer. Well growupdickbrain, now it is clear why you in shit and will be always

God give stregt Turkey and Turkish military.

[growuptcs]

lovernomore:

God give stregt Turkey and Turkish military.

Your just a Nazi who thinks he deserves a place in todays world. On top of being a dictator with other peoples property.

[Expatkiwi]

GR,

I've read what you have stated. Here are my couter-arguments.

When the 13 point changes were rejected by Vice President Kucik, Greek Cypriot militants then prevented the Turkish Cypriot MP's from attending the government, and the Vice President was kept out of his offices at gunpoint. The Cyprus Broadcasting corportaion was purged of its Turkish Cypriot employees and similar removals of Turkish Cypriots from government offices swiftly took place. In summation, the refusal to agree resulted in Greek Cypriots forcing the Turkish Cypriots out of government and government employ, thus creating a Greek-only administration...

The coup of 1974 did occur, and only through the direct intervention of Turkey - after Great Britain refused to fulfil their obligatinos under the treaty of guarantee - did the coup fail. As documentary footage did show, Makarios was welcomed back as a hero in Nicosia after the coup plotters were apprehended, but by then the damage had been done, and the Turkish Cypriots would certainly not have wanted to go back to their enclaves and marginalized status now that the Turkish Forces were on the island.

The right of self-determination is built into the United Nations Charter. Also in a document closer to my heart called the (United States) Declaration of Independence. That the UN Security council declared the UDI of 1983 - and Turkey's recognition of it - illegal is purely as a result of realpolitik, otherwise Bangladesh would not have been recognized as independent.

[Piratis]

Expatwiki, do you know what self-determination even means?

It means the right to determine your own self and what belongs to you.

Now tell me how north Cyprus, which is the homeland of 5 times more Greek Cypriots than Turkish Cypriots and where Greek Cypriots have lived for 3500 years (Turks did not even exist back then), falls under the "TC self-determination" and not under the "GC self-determination"??

How about giving to the Greek minority in Turkey their "self-determination" and 1/3rd of Turkey? They, at least, have existed in Asia Minor for far far longer than the Turks did, and surely should have more claims to that land than Turks can have over our land in Cyprus.

[Get Real!]

When the 13 point changes were rejected by Vice President Kucik, Greek Cypriot militants then prevented the Turkish Cypriot MP's from attending the government, and the Vice President was kept out of his offices at gunpoint. The Cyprus Broadcasting corportaion was purged of its Turkish Cypriot employees and similar removals of Turkish Cypriots from government offices swiftly took place. In summation, the refusal to agree resulted in Greek Cypriots forcing the Turkish Cypriots out of government and government employ, thus creating a Greek-only administration...

That's the "TRNC" version. Once Turkey read and rejected the proposal she ordered the TC ministers to abandon their seats in retaliation, and the TMT to "encourage" TC civilians to abandon government jobs, GC employers, and to move to special designated areas where they could pretend to be independent while arms were arriving by the boat-full at the Kokkina port from Turkey, in preparation for armed resistance. It was in fact the first coup initiated by Turkey as early as 1963!

The coup of 1974 did occur, and only through the direct intervention of Turkey - after Great Britain refused to fulfil their obligatinos under the treaty of guarantee - did the coup fail. As documentary footage did show, Makarios was welcomed back as a hero in Nicosia after the coup plotters were apprehended, but by then the damage had been done, and the Turkish Cypriots would certainly not have wanted to go back to their enclaves and marginalized status now that the Turkish Forces were on the island.

Use the CORRECT technical terminology thank you: They VIOLATED the Treaty of Guarantee by not assisting Makarios to restore the RoC and opted to carve up the island without anyone's permission as they saw fit for their benefit.

The right of self-determination is built into the United Nations Charter. Also in a document closer to my heart called the (United States) Declaration of Independence. That the UN Security council declared the UDI of 1983 - and Turkey's recognition of it - illegal is purely as a result of realpolitik, otherwise Bangladesh would not have been recognized as independent.

The phrase “self-determination” is mentioned just twice in the entire UN Charter and in exactly the same way…

“…friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples…”

…and by “peoples” it refers to independent recognized nations, not illegal breakaway groups.

http://www.un.org/aboutun/charter/


There is no international law on “self-determination” and I’ll let the “United States Institute of Peace” explain to you why…

“The right to self-determination has become one of the most complex issues for U.S. foreign policymakers and the international community at large. Confusion over the issue stems not so much from whether there exists a right to self-determination, which is included in many international human rights documents, but from the failure of those documents to define exactly who is entitled to claim this right—a group, a people, or a nation—and what exactly the right confers. At the same time, the international system, particularly in the post–World War II era, has steadfastly defended the inviolability of existing nation-states' borders, regardless of how and when they were determined.”

http://www.usip.org/pubs/peaceworks/pwks7.html