Cyprus-Forum.com

[erolz]

ok...so why did the a certain amount of Greek Cypriots become agressive to TC?...and do you think TC had nothing to do with the build up of agression???

Sorry main source but I find your charterisation of what happened as 'a certain amount of GC became aggressive to TC' almost as upsetting as the assertion that GC violence towards TC was not the major factors that led to so many TC fleeing their homes.

Certainly the violence of GC against TC in this period was executed by a small (tiny even) % of the GC population. Just as certainly (to me) much if not the majority of it was planned and organised and encouraged and permitted by some of the most senior members of the GC leadership. The intent of this planned and orgniased violence was terror. It was to cow and terrorise the TC community into not resisting GC ambitions in Cyprus. Yes TC encouraged this violence in that they induldged in violence themselves in this period and before. However my belief is that even if the TC had behaved as saints and offered no violence towards GC but had still shown a resolute determination to resist the impostition of GC desires for Cyprus then this resort to violence by GC (leadership) against TC would still have occured, with the same intent of 'cowing' the TC community into submitting to the will of GC.

[-mikkie2-]

Erol,

I think you are wrong to assume that GC's don't accept blame for the events of 63-67. We do and we rue the mistakes of the past. However, this has to be put into some kind of perspective. You seem to be on a mission to prove that the GC's were to blame for greater than 50% of everything that has happened in Cyprus. My belief is that from a political point of view the effects of enosis and taksim were feeding off eachother and consequently you cannot sit here and come up with some kind of magic formula to apportion blame. Much of what happened was a reaction to certain events. The numerical superiority of the GC's may have resulted in greater effects on the smaller TC community but really, the issue is what actually caused these events to happen. From that perspective I would say that there is pretty much equal culpability.

In any case, the fear that has been instilled in the TC community is actually detrimental to the whole of Cyprus. We are being manipulated because of this and we will perhaps see this come to the fore over the next few months. You just watch how Turkey will be making the demands whilst the TC's follow in the next round of negotiations!

[brother]

Look lets share the blame according to population, the GC are 82% to blame and the TC are 18% to blame, now piratis would say that is fair in accordance to the population in cyprus and we the TC would not want to eat into your share, God forbid.

[-mikkie2-]

Not the point I was trying to make brother! It is erol that seems to make a numerical assesment of apportioning blame.

[brother]

mikkie i was just jesting to soften the mood on this thread but i am sure you got that anyway

[suetoniuspaulinus]

Mr erolz

I find it incredulous, that in this thread. the simple facts of 63 - 67, have been contested so much.

Let me make sure that I have got some of the argument right , just in case.

DATES

1963 to 1974

FACTS

TC's forced into enclaves by TC's and GC's

They (TC,s )were awaiting Taksim

TC's killed more TC's than the GC's.

United Nations came to Island and watched people being killed

QUESTION

When was Erenköy?

I hope that if I've missed anything or misunderstood the argument that a Forum Member will let me know.

[Viewpoint]

-mikkie2-

In any case, the fear that has been instilled in the TC community is actually detrimental to the whole of Cyprus. We are being manipulated because of this and we will perhaps see this come to the fore over the next few months

couldnt agree with you more, to add to this the day to day information we receive from the south with regards to a solution and how TCs are viewed is just adding to this fear and mistrust, dont forget -mikkie2- our task is greater in the respect that we have to turn our backs on Turkey who has supported us for the last 31 years (bad or good this is not the issue) to unite with you guys, so if you were in our shoes what would you expect from the south to help rid those fears and build trust that would allow us to unite???? how can we get past this manipulation as you call it??? I feel the initiative has to stem from the south as they always state they are sole rulers of their own GC destiny.

[realcypriot]

Good point. I think this will be difficult since Papadopoulos is a very immature and insincere man. He wants a solution on his own terms and will only sacrifice something if he stands to gain from it. Whatever his past, I still think Clerides was a far more moderate politician when he left. If he was still here, then together with Talat, they could have thrashed something out.

[MicAtCyp]

Even if we accept what you said is 100% true, this could not have been successful if there was no real threat from GC community towards TC community. People would not leave their homes and environment and go and live in miserable conditions for the sake of pleasing the authorities.

Metecyp you seem to have missed my point.I said TMT people, i.e people who beleived in a "higher" cause, and who were obviously backed up by Turkey both financially and otherwise, most of which already took a military training. I am not talking for the ordinary TC people.

I know the enclaves were later filled with ordinary people for their own security concerns, but I guess we will never find out what would happen even if they were not.In my opinion the enclaves once formed had every potential to expand, and also had all sorts of other military and political potentials. In the best case (were everything would evolve peacefully) they would serve as central government of the TC people living all around Cyprus who would declare civil disobedience and no recognition of RoC.So we would have a state within a state.

[Kifeas]

Good point. I think this will be difficult since Papadopoulos is a very immature and insincere man.

Yes of course!
And the only sincere and mature ones are Talat, Denktash, Erdogan, Hilmi Ozgioc, Ecevit, etc. You are the expert! You must know better than us!