Cyprus-Forum.com

[Main_Source]

Violence and intimidation by bands of irregular and regular armed forces set up by anbd supported by leading members of the GC administarions upto and including Makarios himself. Go ahead and deny this was the case if you chose. We are used to such denials

and we are used to the most fabricated claims from TC, that has no evidence whatsoever, to legalise the invasion.

Again, there is no proof or logic that Makarios set up armed forces to attack TC....but if that WAS the case, what is your theory on why EOKA B wanted to kill him?[/quote]

[brother]

Because he realised that if they continued this path they would give turkey the opportunity to invade, but EOKA b was dissillusioned and thought they could exterminate all tc before turkey arrived and also banked on foreign powers keeping turkey at bay.

[Main_Source]

but how could he think he would be giving Turkey an excuse to invade, if under the guarantor treatey, Turkey were not even allowed to step on the island.

but where did this notion come from...is there proof of this or does Turkey also have the power to mind read the president of Cyprus under the guarantor treaty?

[erolz]

So the incentive of a separate TC state did not play any part of ANY TC leaving there homes to migrate north whatsoever? Even though that this plan was implemented by Dr Kucuk and Turkey, back in the mid 50's. Every single TC who moved north was forced to do so by GC yeah?

Your insistance on absolutes (every single TC who moved etc) is just meaningless in an sensible assment of what happened in this period and why.

Do you really wish to continue to deny that the overidding reason why the vast majority TC fled their homes in this period was because of GC violence and intimidation against them? If so this is your choice, but it is not more supportable a denial than TP claim that no GC kill a TC in this period or your previous claim that Makarios abandonded the ideal and persuit of ENOSIS in 1960. None of these claims are supportable by the overwhealming weight of historical evidence. Stick to them if you wish.

[brother]

Source remember we talked about how in politics everything is pre-known by politicians and then played out for the public.

[erolz]

Again, there is no proof or logic that Makarios set up armed forces to attack TC....but if that WAS the case, what is your theory on why EOKA B wanted to kill him?

There is much proof and logic that says that Makarios knew about 'irregular' bands of GC forces (in 63,65,67 and in 74), knew what they were doing and chose to do little or nothing to stop them. EOKA B was made up of those thugs that Makarios knew about and did nothing to stop when they were directing their brutality against the TC community, who then decided that Makarios was not doing enough quickly enough to implement ENOSIS. IE EOKA B thugs were made up from EOKA thugs - an orginasation that Makrios personaly sanctioned empowerd and authorised. EOKA did not cease in 1960. It continued to persue it goals and the use of force against TC that threatend the realisation of it's goals. When some of it's members decided that Makarios himself was an obsticle to these goals (after having dealt with the TC) they turned on him as well.

[Main_Source]

ok, so once again we are back to TC believing that EOKA and EOKA B are the same thing...round and round in circles.

Well, not everything is balck and white. I give you one example, may dad was about 15 in Nicosia in the mid 50's when he was one of the many GC school kids who helped EOKA. He is proud of the EOKA movement in the 50's yet has told many times that his favourite footballer in Cyprus was a TC goalkeeper who played for Cyprus (and whom he happily met at Hackney Marshes once who moved to Englad) and also he has never had a problem with me or any of my brothers and sisters bringing TC friends home. Infact, he often tells me of there rare stories about some of the noble things the Ottoman empire did in there occupation of Greece. On the other hand, he hates buying any priduce from Turkey (unlike my mum who is slightly more liberal and would not mind visiting Constantinople...although she has told me that the only she told me that the only flag she recognised for Cyprus when she was growing up was the Greece flag)

So, by your standards i'm confused, are they racist nationalist thugs or are they totally liberel? They way I see it, your claims about people who were for EOKA are petty and you should see that things are not black and white. Most GC have the ideology that the original EOKA movement was to see Greek people in Cyprus come out of oppresion under foreign power. At the end of the day, the EOKA nationalist movement was born BECAUSE of the foreign occupation and oppression like the British Empire and Ottoman Empire...and GC are not the the only peoples who have promoted there own through the oppression of foreign rule.

One other point, you say that TC were forced into enclaves because of GC...but you dont think that TMT killing TC leftists had nothing to do with the migrassion north? You dont think that they were afraid what the TMT would do if they refused to leave there homes in the south, would do to them?

[erolz]

ok, so once again we are back to TC believing that EOKA and EOKA B are the same thing...round and round in circles.

I do not believe or say they were the same thing. I point out the reality that EOKA B was a break away subset of EOKA. Was there anyone in EOKA B who was not in EOKA? Was the leader of EOKA not the same person as the leader of EOKA B. Was the declared aim of EOKA B not the same as EOKA. This is the reality of EOKA B.

Well, not everything is balck and white.

I know this as well as anyone and probably better than most. This does not mean however that their is no right or worng or means of establishing what was right and what was wrong.

Most GC have the ideology that the original EOKA movement was to see Greek people in Cyprus come out of oppresion under foreign power.

Certainly many GC have this 'ideology'. They have this not because it was true but because it fits their need to play down GC communites responsibility for the mess Cyprus is in today. The fallacy of this claim that EOKA's objective was the end of foreign rule in Cyprus is so patently obvious. EOKA's objective was to replace foreign rule by the UK with foriegn rule by Greece. This to is just historical fact. In order to reach this goal they decided they had to force the end of British rule and force the TC community into accepting the imposed will of the GC community over the future of Cyprus and this is what they tried to do.

At the end of the day, the EOKA nationalist movement was born BECAUSE of the foreign occupation and oppression like the British Empire and Ottoman Empire...and GC are not the the only peoples who have promoted there own through the oppression of foreign rule.

If EOKA was a movment for the independance of Cyprus then you could claim it was born because of foreign colonial rule. It was not a movement for independance of Cyprus it was a movement for the union of Cyprus with Greece (a foregin country). It was born because of years and years of Greek (not cypriot) nationalist teachings by the Greek orthodox church and other's planting the mengali idea (a Greek nationalist idea not a cypriot nationialist idea) into GC.

One other point, you say that TC were forced into enclaves because of GC...but you dont think that TMT killing TC leftists had nothing to do with the migrassion north? You dont think that they were afraid what the TMT would do if they refused to leave there homes in the south, would do to them?

You just can not bring yourself to accept the reality can you? The reality that the overridding reason why TC fled their homes was GC (organised and planned) violence against the TC community. Yes TMT had it's own thugs. Yes they comitted some brutal acts against TC as well as GC (just as EOKA did against GC and TC). However none of this changes the reality of why the vast majority of TC fled their homes in this period.

[Othellos]

The reality that the overridding reason why TC fled their homes was GC (organised and planned) violence against the TC community. Yes TMT had it's own thugs. Yes they comitted some brutal acts against TC as well as GC (just as EOKA did against GC and TC). However none of this changes the reality of why the vast majority of TC fled their homes in this period.

Ah...still in "selective memory" mode.

O.

[erolz]

Ah...still in "selective memory" mode.

O.

Still challenging GC attempts to re-write history of the period of 63-74 if that is what you mean. The single largest reason why TC fled their homes in this period was GC (planned and organised) violence against the TC community and the fear this engenderd in the TC community.