Cyprus-Forum.com

[detailer]

detailer,

I am not going to sit here and do YOUR research. There are plenty of resources on the internet if you want to find out. MicAtCyp pointed you to one.

How do you know that I didn't do any research? I would like to hear your number.

[magikthrill]

My view in it's simplest form is that GC had more ability to control and determine where Cyprus ended up because there were more of them. When it then ended up in a mess they carry more of the responsibility for that because they had more ability to control it.

you understand your analogy is flawed because it assumes only GCs and TCs were the onces who controlled the events of Cyprus. you forgot to mention the UK's control of the weather as well as a Greek ships attempt to seize the boat and a Turkish carriers capture of the boat, sending both communities to the same island of disharmony only on different parts.

[Viewpoint]

magikthrill it so easy to blame others, Cypriots both Turkish and Greek messed up big time, attributing blame in percentages in my opinion gets us absoulutely nowhere. We as Cypriots have never been united so we will always be vunerable to uutside manipulation be it English American Greek or Turkish. The day we unite and trust and respect each other is the day we are no longer open to the influence of nations which will use us to their own ends.

[detailer]

The politicians of the TC and GC were mainly empowered by the respective motherlands. Your politicians at the time were effectively controlled by Turkey.

Obvioulsy there was more scope for GC to pressure the TC due to their larger numbers and I do not deny that, but the people that perpertrated acts like this from both sides were following the will of their respective politicians and in my view that is where the root of the problem lies as it does till today.

You talk about political equality and yet, when it comes to taking responsibility for the past your leadership resists to take its fair share of responsibility.

To this day Erol the TC and Turkish leadership are rubbing our noses in it. At the most basic humanitarian level, they simply avoid and side track from taking responsibility as is the case with the fate of the missing for example.

How can you ignore obvious facts? It was GC leadership trying to change the basic properties of the republic.

[magikthrill]

magikthrill it so easy to blame others, Cypriots both Turkish and Greek messed up big time, attributing blame in percentages in my opinion gets us absoulutely nowhere. We as Cypriots have never been united so we will always be vunerable to uutside manipulation be it English American Greek or Turkish. The day we unite and trust and respect each other is the day we are no longer open to the influence of nations which will use us to their own ends.

i think everyone understands that both communities are at fault when the problem discussion arises. but to claim that the two communities are the only ones at fault in terms of the big picture it is ridiculous.

[-mikkie2-]

How can you ignore obvious facts? It was GC leadership trying to change the basic properties of the republic.

Whilst Turkey was busy trying to undermine it!

And as for you other question:

The period from 21 December 1963 to 10 August 1964 was the most violent phase of the Cypriot conflict. Both communities estimate that several hundred of their members were wounded. In addition, several hundred were kidnapped and temporarily held hostage until exchanges were arranged. Official records show that 191 Turk-Cypriots were known to have been killed and 173 are still missing and now presumed dead. On the Greek-Cypriot side, 133 are known to have been killed and 41 are still missing and presumed dead. It is probable, however, that the figures for Turkish-Cypriot deaths include some who were killed accidentally by their own hand or by other Turk-Cypriots. Greek-Cypriot deaths are probably understated. There are indications that some casualties, for propaganda reasons, were never publicly announced. Also, casualties among Greek Army soldiers in Cyprus are not included in the Cyprus Government's figures. It may be more prudent therefore to accept that approximately 350 Turk-Cypriots were killed in this period while about 200 Greek-Cypriots and mainland Greeks were killed.

And that is just the 63-64 period where the violence was at its worst.

[erolz]

you understand your analogy is flawed because it assumes only GCs and TCs were the onces who controlled the events of Cyprus. you forgot to mention the UK's control of the weather as well as a Greek ships attempt to seize the boat and a Turkish carriers capture of the boat, sending both communities to the same island of disharmony only on different parts.

Ahh the old 'Cypriots are not to blame - it was UK and Turkey (though not Greece according to you?) that are to blame'.

Certainly external countries played a role and carry some blame but the overwhealming blame for what happend to Cyprus lays with Cypriots. As far as comparing the blame of the two cypriot communites, that community which had a greater ability to determine the destination can fairly be said to have had more responsibilty for where we ended up.

[magikthrill]

Certainly external countries played a role and carry some blame but the overwhealming blame for what happend to Cyprus lays with Cypriots. As far as comparing the blame of the two cypriot communites, that community which had a greater ability to determine the destination can fairly be said to have had more responsibilty for where we ended up.

again...

i think everyone understands that both communities are at fault when the problem discussion arises. but to claim that the two communities are the only ones at fault in terms of the big picture it is ridiculous

i also agree that GCs are more to blame than TCs when playing the blame game but also Turkey is to blame more than both.

[Murtaza]

Certainly external countries played a role and carry some blame but the overwhealming blame for what happend to Cyprus lays with Cypriots. As far as comparing the blame of the two cypriot communites, that community which had a greater ability to determine the destination can fairly be said to have had more responsibilty for where we ended up.

again...

i think everyone understands that both communities are at fault when the problem discussion arises. but to claim that the two communities are the only ones at fault in terms of the big picture it is ridiculous

i also agree that GCs are more to blame than TCs when playing the blame game but also Turkey is to blame more than both.

well sorry, what can we do?

[magikthrill]

um if you are representing Turkey then how bout you start by ending 30 years of int'l law violation and end the occupation.