Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

erolz I have also been reading this thread with interest, you have been unbiased methodical and respectful in your posts which should be acknowledged. Its clear for all forum users to read that you have backed up your arguements with independent quotes, yet the individuals you are trying to have a civilised debate with have not and will not admit not even 0.0001% that you may be right in what you and many TCs know and believe, that GCs aggression against TCs was not the only but the main cause for TCs to abandon their homes to live in isolated enclaves under harsh conditions. The belittling and condensending comments you are receiving from GC contributors must signal something??? why do you put up with it??? They will continue to try and discredit you, whatever you post.

[erolz]

why do you put up with it??? They will continue to try and discredit you, whatever you post.

I guess I believe that there is such a thing as truth and that even if there are those that actively seek to pervert it or refuse to accept it there are others that do not. I do not claim to have an infallibility in knowing the truth but when I think something is true I will express that view and my reasons for holding that belief and evidence I believe credibly supports that view as best I can. Others may try and discredit me but that to me does not I should not attempt to do the afore mentioned. Also by disposition I am of the general beleif it is better to try and do something (in this case express what I believe to be true and why I believe it) and fail than to not try at all because I might fail or others might seek to make me fail. At the end of the day I believe there are sensible rational people reading these forums capable of objective judgments (and I am not saying that any given poster is not one of these people) on the merits or otherwise of the arguments I or others make and they will make up their own minds.

[Viewpoint]

if your thing is bashing you head against a brick wall go for it, I agree debating something you believe is right and having counter arguements raised is also normal when discussing issues with people like Alexandros but people who are not rationale and always responses are riddled with idiotic scarcastic provoking personal comments then theres a limit, dont you think?

[-mikkie2-]

All GC views are propaganda, all TC views are absolute truth. Where does truth lie then? The first victim of any conflict is the TRUTH. This conflict continues and the victim is STILL the TRUTH.

The amount of rubbish that is being peddled by some people on here beggars belief. The constant blame game that is being played simply bypases the truth.

All I have to say is wake up, because before too long it won't matter what the GC's think or the TC's think because the rug that is Cyprus is slowly being pulled from under us.

[erolz]

All GC views are propaganda, all TC views are absolute truth. Where does truth lie then? The first victim of any conflict is the TRUTH. This conflict continues and the victim is STILL the TRUTH.

The amount of rubbish that is being peddled by some people on here beggars belief. The constant blame game that is being played simply bypases the truth.

Do you think it is true that TC used force (violence) against TC to make them flee their homes?

Do you think it is untrue to say that the main (not only - but main) reason that TC fled their homes was GC violence and the threat of GC violence?

Or do you just not care?

All I have to say is wake up, because before too long it won't matter what the GC's think or the TC's think because the rug that is Cyprus is slowly being pulled from under us.

Who is pulling the rug from under us. What do you suggest we actualy do to 'wake up'?

[gabaston]

the truth huh?

Gc calls for enosis = Tc calls for partition
Gc calls for unification = Tc calls fo bi zonal
Gc doesnt like tc = Tc doesnt trust Gc

Now build the next annan plan around that, and we got peace....

[-mikkie2-]

If people sincerely believe that the events between 63-67 justify what Turkey did in Cyprus in 1974 and continues to do today then quite frankly there is no hope for us. No matter how many times the GC's apologise, now matter how much regret we show, you continue to throw it back in our faces.

WHEN HAVE I HEARD A SINGLE TURKISH CYPRIOT APOLOGISE FOR THE ATTROCITIES THAT TURKEY DID IN YOUR NAME IN 1974?

[detailer]

If people sincerely believe that the events between 63-67 justify what Turkey did in Cyprus in 1974 and continues to do today then quite frankly there is no hope for us. No matter how many times the GC's apologise, now matter how much regret we show, you continue to throw it back in our faces.

WHEN HAVE I HEARD A SINGLE TURKISH CYPRIOT APOLOGISE FOR THE ATTROCITIES THAT TURKEY DID IN YOUR NAME IN 1974?

I apoligise from you Mikkie

[gabaston]

MIKKIE

i have on many occasions expressed my sympathies and regrets for the tragic loss of innocent life and refugees in 74.

this is something i deeply regret.

[erolz]

If people sincerely believe that the events between 63-67 justify what Turkey did in Cyprus in 1974 and continues to do today then quite frankly there is no hope for us.

Why do you inist on interpreting TC that try and talk about the events of 63-67 (or 60-74) as being an attmpt ot justify what happened in 74. I have reaptedly said time and again that in discussiong and arguning about the details of the period 60-74 this not an attempt to justify what happend in 74. It is an attempt to place the events of 74 in their correct context. Can you not see the difference? Do you really believe that the events of 74 can be properly and fairly understood without any knowledge or discussion of the events of 60-74?

I have said it many many times on this forum explicitly and will say it again. Do the events in Cyprus between 60-74 justify or excuse what happend to GC in 74 and after. NO IT DOES NOT. Is understanding the events of 60-74 in Cyprus necessary to understand the events of 74 and after. Is a fair common acceptance of the reality of what happened in Cyprus bot in in the period 60-74 and in period 74 to date a vital pre requist for agreeing a future solution. yes it is.

No matter how many times the GC's apologise, now matter how much regret we show, you continue to throw it back in our faces.

I am sorry but when GC tell me that TC drove TC from their homes with force (violence) and that GC violence was not the main factor in motivating TC to flee from their homes then this does not feel much like GC showing regret or appologising. It feels like GC trying to distort reality to diminish GC responsibility in the mess that is Cyprus today.

WHEN HAVE I HEARD A SINGLE TURKISH CYPRIOT APOLOGISE FOR THE ATTROCITIES THAT TURKEY DID IN YOUR NAME IN 1974?

I personaly have made exactly such an appology on several occasions here - as far as I have any right to make it. Brother I believe started an entire thread on this theme and invited posters from both sides to appologise. Again I and brother (from memeory) did this unreservedly as did other TC (from memory). I do nto recall a similar response from GC members of the forum. Do I really have to look and post all the times TC have publicaly appologised for what happend to GC in 74? Would it make any difference to you and your belief that there has never been even a single such appology if I did tkae the time and effort to post the quotes and links?