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[garbitsch]

GC did plan and seek and achieved the stealing of our rights.
GC did kill us.
GC did force us into enclaves.
Turkey did save us from these things.

Thank you Erol for proving my point. Everything can be attributed to the deamonic GCs of course.

But that was NOT my only point..... My other point is that you can find NO TC to admit the other half of the story.

You can find NO GC to admit the other half of the story either. Just read "Echoes from the Dead Zone". Besides you shouldn't say "NO", this is a way too generalised.

[MicAtCyp]

Yes you are right about the generalisation.
What I said initially is that I personally did not find anyone either at a forum or from my personal aquiantances. And I wonder why.

As for the GCs do you know Bananiot?

[MicAtCyp]

Erol,
May I remind you once again my point? You cannot find ANY TC to admit from HIS PERSONAL EXPERIENCE that yes his family was forced into the enclaves by their own people AGAINST their will.

You DO NOT count as a testimony, because we all know the story of your family. Find me one who can verify it either because his parents told him so, or because he experienced it himself and I will admit I was wrong.
You will not find any. You know why?
Code of Silence!

[erolz]

Erol,
May I remind you once again my point? You cannot find ANY TC to admit from HIS PERSONAL EXPERIENCE that yes his family was forced into the enclaves by their own people AGAINST their will.

You DO NOT count as a testimony, because we all know the story of your family. Find me one who can verify it either because his parents told him so, or because he experienced it himself and I will admit I was wrong.
You will not find any. You know why?
Code of Silence!

But you can find GC that will say from their personal experience that GC forced them from their homes? Is that proof of a GC code of silence?

The fact is you can find testimony of TC and independents that TC stopped TC refugees returning to thier homes - because TC did stop (some) TC from returning to their homes. You can find this testimony and GC use it as a 'weapon' against TC community. You can not find testimony from TC or independents that TC forced TC from their homes not because of some (racial based in that it applies to TC but not GC) 'code of silence - but because I believe such forcing of TC from their homes by TC did not occur (in period 63-68). You can not find this testimony and GC still use it as a 'weapon' against the TC community. See a pattern here?

[MicAtCyp]

But you can find GC that will say from their personal experience that GC forced them from their homes? Is that proof of a GC code of silence?

Is there any independent written evidence that the GCs forced GCs out of their homes????

You can not find testimony from TC or independents that TC forced TC from their homes not because of some (racial based in that it applies to TC but not GC) 'code of silence - but because I believe such forcing of TC from their homes by TC did not occur (in period 63-6.

Forget about what you beleive Erol. This is not the first time I saw independent written evidence that these events occured, and were not isolated incidents. The absense of any verification from ANY TC just proves my point. Code of Silence for "unity".

[garbitsch]

Yes you are right about the generalisation.
What I said initially is that I personally did not find anyone either at a forum or from my personal aquiantances. And I wonder why.

As for the GCs do you know Bananiot?

Yes, he is simply a tiny dot in the overall picture. Mic, you are clever enough to see that what you are trying to say is wrong... We have always admited our faulties again. But you are missing the point here. Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots were not equally attacking each other before 1974. Turks were more vulnerated than Greeks. So you shouldn't expect Turkish Cypriots to "admit" that they did too many cruel things to G.Cs. As for the Turkey coming to the island, this is another story, which is not related to your point.

[erolz]

Is there any independent written evidence that the GCs forced GCs out of their homes????

Is there any that TC forced TC out of their homes?

Forget about what you beleive Erol. This is not the first time I saw independent written evidence that these events occured, and were not isolated incidents.

Care to actually present this evidence so that I can modify my beliefs if necessary? If it can be found on a site like Cyprus Conflict then so much the better.

[MicAtCyp]

I am referring to the last post of Othellos (part with bold letters)

[erolz]

I am referring to the last post of Othellos (part with bold letters)

Well you are showing a disturbing lack of precision then imo. The quote in Othellos' post read

where Turkish leaders were concentrating large numbers of refugees, many against their will

(my emphasis)

The point is here that this quote shows that TC leaders were controlling TC refugees. It does not say that TC leaders made them refugees.

Yet you posted

You cannot find ANY TC to admit from HIS PERSONAL EXPERIENCE that yes his family was forced into the enclaves by their own people AGAINST their will.

As I have said before there is TC and independent reports that TC controlled the return of TC refugees - because that did happen. There are no such TC testimonies or independent reports (that I am aware of) that TC forced TC from their homes and into the enclaves. I believe there are nos such reports because it did not happen. You believe there are no such reports because of a 'code of silence' (a code of silence that has not worked as far as TC restricting the return of TC refugess AFTER they had fled their homes I might add)

To recap (at rsik of making too long a post)

TC did restrict the return of some TC refugees. There is TC testimony and indpendent reports that supports this.
TC did not force TC from their homes. There is no TC testimony or indpendent reports that support this.

[/quote]

[MicAtCyp]

Erol,

The bolded part in Othellos post was NOT what you bolded but the "many against their will". part. Are you trying to tell me that all this avalanche in your posts was referring to something else i.e to your false assertion as to who made ALL of them refugees?
Are you trying to tell me Othellos did not provide an independent written source of evidence?

If yes then obviously we are on different wavelengths here. And I don't think I should change mine....

Well you are showing a disturbing lack of precision then imo

He,he,he. Read above, to realise who is having a lack of precision.

You believe there are no such reports because of a 'code of silence'

Here we go again.... I said in numerous occasions that THERE ARE such reports, but TCs who lived through the events are not willing to confirm them.You understood exactly the opposite.

TC did restrict the return of some TC refugees. There is TC testimony and indpendent reports that supports this.

OK. May I add once again that you cannot find a single TC today who either lived through this or was told by his parents with enough willingness to open his mouth and confirm them? My question was, and still is, why? I assumed it is some sort of "code of silence". Garbitsch got my point a long time ago and answered me. I hope finally you will understand what I say, the way I say it, so we move on.