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Documentary about Cyprus on mainland Turkish state TV

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby BirKibrisli » Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:34 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:I am coming to the conclusion that Erdogan and his cronies have only one ambition left : to stay in power for as long they can, simply for personal gain...When I say personal that includes all their relatives and party bosses and their cronies who are slowly gaining the lion's share of the fruits of the fast growing Turkish economy...they will of course keep up with the rhetoric and demagogy re their (Warmly ) Islamic agenda for the sake of their voters,but any principles they had regarding the islamisation of the politics have long been abandoned,I believe..

And I still believe that they have a natural anti-European bias,and they are not sincere about joining the EU...They are using the process as an insurance policy,probably the only one they have against the Military..



I am not sure about some of these statements.

Sure, Erdoğan and his cronies have grown fond of power and the trappings that this brings and will do all they can to cling on to it. However, I am convinced that at heart their party embodies political Islam; if Bin Laden represents the extreme wing of this movement, the AKP is its moderate, acceptable face. Therein lies a contradiction. Since article 4 of the constitution of the Republic of Turkey states that the first three articles are unalterable, there is no parliamentary road to an Islamic state. They are pretty much stuck politically and can only hope to apply "neighbourhood pressure" (mahalle baskısı) in the hope of making Turkey more Islamic in social terms.

I believe that political Islam is ultimately doomed to failure worldwide; most people have simple, mundane aspirations such as improving their standard of living and this movement can't really deliver. It is only a matter of time before it ends in the dustbin of history, depositing Erdoğan and co there as well.

As to the AKP's European aspirations, I used to think this was a form of "takiyye" until I read an article by one of the most respected columnists (I can't remember which one) in the Radikal newspaper which attempted to explain the apparent contradiction of Islamic fundamentalism in Turkey actively promoting EU accession - a policy that would have been anathema to the old-school Islamist Erbakan. He argued that it was the increasing influence of the so-called Anatolian tigers - the families that had prospered as a result of industrialisation in some parts of the conservative Anatolian heartland - that fomred the base of the AKP's support. These people support traditional Islamic values, but at the same time want to grow their businesses and thus see EU accession as opening up potential new markets. You should also remember, a view also frequently promoted by Radikal columnists such as Haluk Şahin, that the AKP is essentially a coalition of Islamists and Liberals. The islamic vote alone could never bring a party to power in Turkey and Erdoğan's political genius lay in his ability to widen the platform of the Islamist party and bring other forces on board. The Liberals are strong supporters of EU accession, so the party has to remain pro-European to keep these people on board.

That's my current take on things, anyway.


Your comments about economic gains make sense of course...But they can get most of the economic benefits without becoming a full member of the EU...A priveleged member status,or whatever they call it,would probably be enough...I am also worried about Erdogan's personality...He is more authoritarian than democratic...He is not comfortable with real democratic values...That goes for most of his party bosses...They have little respect or understanding for European style democracy...This is another reason why I think they are not sincere on this issue... :(
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Postby lovernomore » Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:23 pm

Kifeas wrote:
halil wrote:Tim ,
Tümay Tuğyan works at Bayrak TV ....

I hope you can translate below one as well for forum members . most of the GC's forum members knows about this report but TC's at abroad or other forum members does not read greek or turkish ...

tell them what Prist is thinking as well ......



Halil, let me try to again re-explain to you a few things, and hopefully this time you will somehow be able to understand them, if such a thing is ever possible. History, Halil, is like a cycle. If you someone is not able to properly read and interpret history, he is bound to repeat the same mistakes that him or others did in the past.

From 1968 – 1974 (before the events) we (the two communities) were also negotiating for a solution. We (GCs) thought we had the upper hand, simply because the TCs have abandoned the RoC and had locked themselves in the enclaves in order to realize their partition dream, but somehow they became hostages to their own delusions and ended up suffering in isolation and near financial devastation. This fact the GC side thought it had given us an advantage, which (we thought) allowed us to negotiate from a strong position and dictate all or most of our terms. Clerides, at the time, managed to extract from Denktash quite a lot of concessions, Makarios however, acting under the fear of some extremist nationalists among the GC side who wanted “all or nothing,” but also under his own prejudices, was refusing to close the deal and wanted more and more concessions from the TCs. To this end, a deal was not closed, and in 1974, the tables were turned upside down.

We (GCs) were now in a disadvantage situation, and the TCs and Turkey in an obvious advantage position, occupying almost 37% of Cyprus and us (GCs) having 200,000 refugees from the north. Under these circumstances, the Turkish /TC side managed after 1974 to extract from the GC side too many concessions, with the most important been our acceptance to transform Cyprus and the RoC from unitary state into a bi-zonal federative one, with one area (zone) to remain under TC majority habitation and local internal majority administration. Such concessions were unthinkable and entirely non-negotiable by the GCs, before 1974, unthinkable by your side to have ever achieved under the pre-1974 and the pre-1960 realities, and unthinkable by any other people in a similar situation, across the globe.

However, instead of your side making an example and learning from our (GC) pre-1974 mistakes, you have come up in exactly the same and even worst way, insisting for 35 long years in the same “all or nothing” policy. So far, you have gotten northing, and it seems you will continue getting nothing, until something like 1974 happens and the tables are turned once more upside down. Like us before 1974, you thought -and still keep thinking- that you have an advantage over us, and that we are the ones negotiating with our back against the wall, exactly like we used to think before 1974. This diluted and mistaken policy has backfired against your side already once, in 2004, when we have managed to enter the EU without a solution, and with the whole of Cyprus under the de jure sovereignty of the RoC. This event alone has leveled the playing field, and whatever advantage you thought you had has now become extinct. Yet, you continue the same illegitimate “all or nothing” ideology and policy, without being able to learn anything from history.

The likelihood is that you will continue along the same diluted ideas, because your leadership, your educational system and your “motherland” do not allow you to see further than your nose. Unless by then you come to your senses, stop making illegitimate claims and asking for the impossible, the time will come that the tables will again be turned upside-down, like they did in 1974. When this will come, do not come here crying, for you have (a) been warned and (b) have also been given plenty of chances already. Life on earth and history have their cycles, and the ones that learn from them are the ones that win and prosper.


You make to many mistake and dont lern from them. 34 years and you still talk table turn upside down. why you dont turn table in 34 years, how long more you wait? you talk rubish. Turkey and Tcs will get everthing they ask for and you will look a fool. big talk you must be very litle man. why you forget your masters always win what they want. in 400 hundered years you lern nothing from them?
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Postby DT. » Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:02 am

someone explain to this cretin what a master and servant is.
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Postby Get Real! » Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:36 am

lovernomore wrote:You make to many mistake and dont lern from them. 34 years and you still talk table turn upside down. why you dont turn table in 34 years, how long more you wait? you talk rubish. Turkey and Tcs will get everthing they ask for and you will look a fool. big talk you must be very litle man. why you forget your masters always win what they want. in 400 hundered years you lern nothing from them?

It's just as well you brought up "masters" because you'd better start practicing washing cars, mopping the floor, taking out garbage, and feeding the dog, because I'm getting itchy for some Ottoman serfs... and with your lack of education you sound dandy for the job! 8)

Now you be a good little Turk and I’ll buy you a new pair of knickers and beat you just once a month… :wink:
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Postby BirKibrisli » Wed Oct 29, 2008 3:32 am

lovernomore,

You ought to try putting yourself in other people's shoes every now and then...It is called empathy...Imagine for example what it would be like to live under someone else's rule for hundreds of years...To feel fear,insecurity,humilation,loathing for those who have enslaved you...

To feel helpless,enraged,yet unable to thow off the yoke...

Then perhaps you will understand why there is so much bitterness around...Better still try to remember,if you are old enough,what it was like to live in Cyprus during the 50s and 60s...as a Turkish Cypriot.The fear,insecurity,humilation,economic destitution...You get the drift...Forget about the reasons or who was to blame and what not...Just imagine the feelings and the trauma and what is left in our cellective consciousness....Then perhaps you will not be so eager to rub salt in people's wounds... :cry: :cry:
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Postby BirKibrisli » Wed Oct 29, 2008 3:35 am

Get Real! wrote:
lovernomore wrote:You make to many mistake and dont lern from them. 34 years and you still talk table turn upside down. why you dont turn table in 34 years, how long more you wait? you talk rubish. Turkey and Tcs will get everthing they ask for and you will look a fool. big talk you must be very litle man. why you forget your masters always win what they want. in 400 hundered years you lern nothing from them?

It's just as well you brought up "masters" because you'd better start practicing washing cars, mopping the floor, taking out garbage, and feeding the dog, because I'm getting itchy for some Ottoman serfs... and with your lack of education you sound dandy for the job! 8)

Now you be a good little Turk and I’ll buy you a new pair of knickers and beat you just once a month… :wink:


And you Mr SmartyPants...Though you make me laugh with your silly posts,it is not really funny...You try to find some empathy as well or I will take the whip to you I will... :lol:
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Postby Big Al » Wed Oct 29, 2008 3:44 am

Get Real! wrote:
lovernomore wrote:You make to many mistake and dont lern from them. 34 years and you still talk table turn upside down. why you dont turn table in 34 years, how long more you wait? you talk rubish. Turkey and Tcs will get everthing they ask for and you will look a fool. big talk you must be very litle man. why you forget your masters always win what they want. in 400 hundered years you lern nothing from them?

It's just as well you brought up "masters" because you'd better start practicing washing cars, mopping the floor, taking out garbage, and feeding the dog, because I'm getting itchy for some Ottoman serfs... and with your lack of education you sound dandy for the job! 8)

Now you be a good little Turk and I’ll buy you a new pair of knickers and beat you just once a month… :wink:


Is that what the ottomans did to your mother GR? buy her a new pair of knickers and gice her the occassional spanking???
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Postby Get Real! » Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:02 am

BirKibrisli wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
lovernomore wrote:You make to many mistake and dont lern from them. 34 years and you still talk table turn upside down. why you dont turn table in 34 years, how long more you wait? you talk rubish. Turkey and Tcs will get everthing they ask for and you will look a fool. big talk you must be very litle man. why you forget your masters always win what they want. in 400 hundered years you lern nothing from them?

It's just as well you brought up "masters" because you'd better start practicing washing cars, mopping the floor, taking out garbage, and feeding the dog, because I'm getting itchy for some Ottoman serfs... and with your lack of education you sound dandy for the job! 8)

Now you be a good little Turk and I’ll buy you a new pair of knickers and beat you just once a month… :wink:

And you Mr SmartyPants...Though you make me laugh with your silly posts,it is not really funny...You try to find some empathy as well or I will take the whip to you I will... :lol:

It’s by no accident that I’m back by popular demand… 8)
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Postby Get Real! » Wed Oct 29, 2008 12:15 pm

Big Al wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
lovernomore wrote:You make to many mistake and dont lern from them. 34 years and you still talk table turn upside down. why you dont turn table in 34 years, how long more you wait? you talk rubish. Turkey and Tcs will get everthing they ask for and you will look a fool. big talk you must be very litle man. why you forget your masters always win what they want. in 400 hundered years you lern nothing from them?

It's just as well you brought up "masters" because you'd better start practicing washing cars, mopping the floor, taking out garbage, and feeding the dog, because I'm getting itchy for some Ottoman serfs... and with your lack of education you sound dandy for the job! 8)

Now you be a good little Turk and I’ll buy you a new pair of knickers and beat you just once a month… :wink:

Is that what the ottomans did to your mother GR? buy her a new pair of knickers and gice her the occassional spanking???

Luckily my mother was born 5 years after the dreaded Ottomans were disbanded... try again.
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