Cyprus-Forum.com

[DT.]

Bananiot...Why don't you just say "Milk is white" and see if there is one GC here who would agree with you...???

I applaud your endless attempts to introduce some sanity and objective balance into the whole situation...But I am afraid people are hell bent now on throwing the baby out with the bath water...Just to be spiteful,revengeful,self-rightious...
A pity,dear friend...A BIG bloody pity...

Bir, this is where you lose me. Bananiot has accepted Turkish guarantees, ethnically clean Turkish and Greek statelets in Cyprus, a virgin birth of a new state leaving the door wide open for another partition by one of the new co-founders, separate economies, bases to remain in Cyprus, the encouragement of people to travel out of Tymbou despite that cementing the partition and recognition of the "trnc"...and many many others, and STILL he says he wants a united independent Cyprus?

Which one of all those that he is willing to accept will ever lead to one nation?

All I have ever wanted is a BBF, with freedom of movement and settlement, with fair distribution of power based on democratic proportional representation but with safeguards for Turkish Cypriots in the upper house on sensitive issues, one national anthem, one flag, one country. One President and Vice President elected by all the population on the same ticket (one tc one gc). A transition period with temporary deviations from EU law to allow a smoother process however no permanent deviations. Whats good for the entire EU is also good for us.

Its easy to say yes to everything Bir and be called a "true Cypriot". Its when you use your brain and figure out the points that will never make a solution work. A solution which is not balanced to both sides will leave the other side with a bad taste and thats when bad things will manifest themselves into agression, violence or even parition again. Personally any individual who calls himself a global citizen and has little regard to whats good for the country (for ALL their country) but is willing to accept anything just because "THAT's how the world should be, trusting and peaceful" is not trustworthy in my book Bir. His judgement is wrong and will lead to problems.


Now having said that I would love it if someone (especially you Bir who I respect very much) can provide me with something that Bananiot has ever quoted as saying in this forum that shows he holds his country's interests at heart. I would love to find some common ground with this man because I know that this can't be it. This man is far too interesting an individual and somewhere in there is a multi-faceted personality that has room for everyone to share some common ground with. I'd like to find something but so far there has been nothing.

I hate putting him down and I hate every single time I find myself at such complete odds with him. I am not an extremist by any means, but if someone who considers himself a moderate (others may disagree with this) is so far away from Bananiot then what does that make him?

[Bananiot]

You say you are a moderate person DT but, alas, others will judge you on this and of course this applies to all of us. You reckon that that Klerides had a different Annan Plan in front of him but this is only a small portion of the truth and the disturbing thing is that you know it but you pretend it never happened. Klerides spoke on the last version of the Annan Plan, the dreaded one, according to you. I was at the rally and I was standing a couple of meters from him, back in April 2004. He said:

If we vote no, we would be jumping into a ravine whose depth is endless.

This is the wise man's legacy and it will take more than DT's hapless effort to distort historical fact.

He tries the same angle on me too: This is what he wrote:

Bananiot has accepted Turkish guarantees, ethnically clean Turkish and Greek statelets in Cyprus, a virgin birth of a new state leaving the door wide open for another partition by one of the new co-founders, separate economies, bases to remain in Cyprus, the encouragement of people to travel out of Tymbou despite that cementing the partition and recognition of the "trnc"...and many many others, and STILL he says he wants a united independent Cyprus?

And this the reality:

1. Turkish guarantees: I said there are ways around the thorny issue of guarantees. We must not allow this issue to lead the negotiations to failure. We simply cannot afford this. One way around this, I wrote, would be to accept the Turkish guarantees (because the Turkish Cypriots have lost their trust on us) for an agreed period of time and if it came to another intervention, this would only be possible with the blessing of the EU.
2. The component states: I agree that each component state would have guaranteed majorities. I cannot see any other way around this. What Kifeas proposed is not feasible and it just gives a fatal blow to chances of a peaceful solution.
3. Virgin birth: This virgin birth business is just a ridiculous issue. The Annan Plan dealt admirably well with this non issue.
4. Ercan: It is an utter lie to suggest that I encourage people to travel through Ercan. I travel a lot and went to Istanbul, via Athens. I was just responding to a question by a third party and simply gave the existing situation to the best of my ability.

Birkibrisly, I do not like it when I need to defend my self. We are here to give our opinions on various issues and the “democratic” members of the forum simply cannot stomach anything that does not fit into their stereotype view of the world. From day one I was branded a traitor for fostering my views that everyone by now knows, in no uncertain fashion and in full transparency since I do not hide behind nicks or multiple accounts. DT and other so called moderates have never raised their voice at the forumers who make it their business to assassinate characters. Instead he kept quite all this time and because of this he lost the legitimacy to complain or criticise me, I feel.

Having said the above, I must say I have a soft spot for DT, who I think is more than just an OK person. I am more than prepared to meet him (again) to clear the air and Birkibrisly, it would have been fantastic if you could join us too.

[Nikitas]

Sure Britain looks after its own interests first, all self respecting nations do, which is why Cyprus is not included in that club.

The FIRST and BIGGEST priority is to delimit the bases. They have a MILITARY function and that is, or should be ALL. So we must NOW insist that the bases will be redefined in an agreement and that redefinition must clearly and unambiguously state that the territory of the bases burdens the GC statelet, component (call it what you will) and in the event of any partial or total withdrawal of the British the territory reverts to the GC side. In addition there can be no ceding of any part of the bases to any party by Britain in any manner, ie lease, assignment, etc.

All other parties, including Greece, must be made to countesign this condition.

Any deviation from the above sets the scene for a future conflict. We must not let that happen.

The rest is bullshit.

[BirKibrisli]

Dear, DT....It is possible to respect someone's overall stand but not agree with him in every detail...let me tell you why I think Bananiot is a true Cypriot and a real patriot (though he would hate me for calling him that)...

Bananiot has respect ,understanding and empathy for the TCs,he understands the very difficult position they are in,and he knows why they are where they are...He has not taken the easy road(blame everything on the other side),wiped out everything that happened before 1974,and present the whole problem as simply "a problem of Turkish occupation"...He knows that time is working against Cypriots and against unification...He knows that soon,withing 25 years say,in about half the time this conflict has been playing out,there will be no one left who will remember what it was like to live together,let alone want to...He knows that when that time comes nobody would talk about a BBF, never mind about unification...Partition will just be a fete accompli,end of story...Bananiot can see both sides of the equation,and believes that both sides must compromise to get a solution...To prevent Cyprus and Cypriots from being torn apart,to preserve some sort of self-determination for all Cypriots...So what if Turkey has "rights of guarantee" on paper....????Let them have their guarantee and take their soldiers out of Cyprus... Then make sure we don't give them another opportunity or excuse to invade again.... And with their soldiers let them take most of their settlers with them,to make room for the refugees who might still want to return...Bananiot is a True Cypriot because he is not after revenge or punishment for some percieved wrongs some Cypriots might have committed in the past... JHe knows as I know that Turkey was dragged into this conflict by the big international powers to serve their interests...He is a realist who is trying to keep the baby and throw away some of the bath water...He loves the Republic in all its diversity and never blames the victims for the wrongs done to some other victims...He can see the big picture,refusing the lure of petty nationalism and vengeful partisanship...He sees what none of you can see,that no one,not the EU or the UN or America or Russia will lift a finger to help Cypriots get their country back,because it is not in their interest,and everything has always revolved about the national interests of the Bully boys...Bananiot knows that the national interest of Cyprus lies in giving whatever concessions necessary to get Turkey out of Cyprus,and return it to her people irrespective of their ethnic origin...And make sure the mistakes of the past are never repeated...I respect him because he is not deluded,like some are in this Forum,believing that force of arms will ever,can ever, solve this problem...He knows that Peace can only be achieved by working for peace and not by preparing for War...

Bananiot's mere presence on this Forum gives me some hope that sanity might one day rule...That we are not all bitter and twisted egomaniacs,slaves of our base animal insticts...I am happy to say that your presence too,DT,is a very hopeful sign that some of us are thoughtful,inquisitive,decent human beings capable of independent thought,empathy and compassion for our compatriots...All is not lost as long as Bananiots of this world keep their spirits up...

[halil]

Birkibrisli ,

what a suprise similar wards i used to Bananiot at our saturday meeting .

Then make sure we don't give them another opportunity or excuse to invade again....

who destroy the ROC ..... we did .....TC's and GC's ...... blaming eachother does not make any gain for both of us ......

We must prepair our children for it .... İf we achive it .... time will come there will be no boarders at all .... everything is under the our hands ...Birkibrisli

[paliometoxo]

obama is gonna win and remove turkish troops anyway.... i mean why would he say that for votes no one in america cares about cyprus!!!!!!!!!! i was in mirc joined a politics channel and everyone told me they couldent care a less about cy problem... so obama has no reason to lie about removeing the troops from the island bush took america to hell and obama is going to fix them..

GO OBAMA

Dont count your chickens before they hatch, promises are never kept in politics, look at the EU promises none have been kept towards the TCs.

only because the turkish side is insisiting on things to make the trnc recognised and no way will eu ever let trnc be recognised...

america always keeps their promise obama has no reason to lie it will barely get him many extra votes there is more turkish in america then greek so he would of been better off saying well recognise trnc if he was doing it for votes...

[BirKibrisli]

Birkibrisly, I do not like it when I need to defend my self. We are here to give our opinions on various issues and the “democratic” members of the forum simply cannot stomach anything that does not fit into their stereotype view of the world. From day one I was branded a traitor for fostering my views that everyone by now knows, in no uncertain fashion and in full transparency since I do not hide behind nicks or multiple accounts. DT and other so called moderates have never raised their voice at the forumers who make it their business to assassinate characters. Instead he kept quite all this time and because of this he lost the legitimacy to complain or criticise me, I feel.

Having said the above, I must say I have a soft spot for DT, who I think is more than just an OK person. I am more than prepared to meet him (again) to clear the air and Birkibrisly, it would have been fantastic if you could join us too.

I was composing my post above,dear Bananiot,when you posted this...
I know you are more than capable of defending yourself,and usually I do not jump in like this and defend someone who can look after themselves,but I made an exception on this ocassion as I am really sick of all the unfair attacks you keep getting day in day out...I hope you did not mind my intrusion.I too have a soft spot for our DT,and it would give me great pleasure to sit around a table one day,hopefully soon,and talk about our "little Problem"....Cheers and goodnight,it is geting pretty late here in the arse end of the world...

[BirKibrisli]

Birkibrisli ,

what a suprise similar wards i used to Bananiot at our saturday meeting .

Then make sure we don't give them another opportunity or excuse to invade again....

who destroy the ROC ..... we did .....TC's and GC's ...... blaming eachother does not make any gain for both of us ......

We must prepair our children for it .... İf we achive it .... time will come there will be no boarders at all .... everything is under the our hands ...Birkibrisli

I am glad we think alike on this,Halil....
We will solve this problem only when we realise that the only guarantee we really need is mutual understanding,empathy and compassion...The foolproof way of making peace with your "enemy" is to make him your friend...This simple logic seems to be too difficult for some to understand...Guarantees are not worth the paper they are written on unless we stuff up ourselves again...

[Bananiot]

Thank you Birkibrisly, looking forward to the day we meet. Hope it wont take to long, to materialise.

[DT.]

You guys are making me nervous with all these soft spots