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Travelling to Cyprus

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Re: Travelling to Cyprus

Postby Niki » Wed Oct 22, 2008 3:28 pm

Oracle wrote:
Niki wrote: Should I encourage him to do this?


It sounds like he was concerned about doing this, so why would you encourage him to do something illegal and immoral?

Read this again, he is not even aware there is an issue, the point I was making is that generally people in the rest of the world are not aware of the problems associated with travelling to the North.

Of course the horrific events of the past in Cyprus can't be denied and I do sympathise but things have to move forward.


Why should things "move forward" just to make things easier for you? Should we abandon our fight to regain our country because we have had sympathy now; but let's not be a nuisance any longer!

Without wishing to belittle your feelings and experiences, whether you like it or not time will change things, progress is inevitable, it's certainly not to make it easier for me, why would it be easier for me? I can move freely anyway.


Opening up the island can only be good for the economy surely?


It is about doing the right thing (even if expensive) and the rest will follow...

P.S. I hope you appreciate my restrain on telling you what I really think about your dilemma!

.... and I hope all now see what we have to face from the second wave of "colonisation". Cricket test anyone :roll:

So my saying that I choose not to visit the North until a settlement has been reached means nothing or that I do care about my RoC friends feelings and experiences? I'm just as bad as all the Brits who exploit the situation by getting nice cheap homes in the North or look down on Cypriots anyway? Seems I can't win!


Oracle not all of us Brits are as bad as you make out (frequently) so don't create an even worse situation by being so bigoted you twist what people say to suit your own agenda.
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Postby Oracle » Wed Oct 22, 2008 3:28 pm

observer wrote:As I’ve often said before, it’s not illegal just because you don’t like it.


It's illegal because the RoC says so ...

Travellers entering the Republic of Cyprus via the illegal / closed airports and ports (i.e. all the airports and ports in the occupied areas), may still face the consequences of the Laws of the Republic. Therefore, you are urged to travel via the recognised ports of entry, so as to avoid any possible problems (provided that a visa has been granted to you). The legal ports of entry into the Republic of Cyprus are the airports of Larnaca and Paphos and the ports of Larnaca, Limassol, Latsi and Paphos, which are situated in the area under the effective control of the Government of the Republic of Cyprus. Any entry into the territory of the Republic of Cyprus via any other port or airport in the area of Cyprus in which the Government of the Republic does not exercise effective control (Turkish occupied area) is illegal”.

http://www.mfa.gov.cy/mfa/mfa2006.nsf/A ... enDocument

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Postby Oracle » Wed Oct 22, 2008 3:33 pm

On 20 September 2006 the German airline Lufthansa signed an agreement on the education of pilots with the illegal so-called "Turkish Cypriot Airlines".

It has come to my attention that on 20 September 2006 Lufthansa signed an agreement on the education of pilots with the illegal so-called "Turkish Cypriot Airlines" which operates illegally in the occupied territories of the Republic of Cyprus. The agreement you have singed is morally reprehensible and violates the laws of the Republic of Cyprus and the European Union of which Cyprus is a member as well as the Chicago Convention on aviation and the resolutions of the United Nations Security Council, therefore I demand that you revoke it immediately otherwise you will face legal action and a customer and investor backlash.

In 1974 Turkey invaded Cyprus illegally in violation of over 30 exiting UN resolutions condemning its systematic aggression and numerous acts of terror, which it had perpetrated over the previous decade against both Greek and Turkish Cypriots. Over 200,000 Greek Cypriots who made up 90% of the population were brutally raped, tortured, murdered and ethnically cleansed from 40% of Cyprus territory by the invading Turkish forces and have never been allowed to return to their land and homes since.

The puppet state which Turkey has set up in occupied Cyprus referred to as the so-called "Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus" has been declared "legally invalid" by the United Nations Security Council in resolutions 541(1983) and 550(1984) which also call upon all states not to assist this illegal entity in any way, therefore your agreement with the so-called "Turkish Cypriot Airlines" on the issue of the education of pilots is legally invalid and contrary to these resolutions and international law.

The so-called "Turkish Cypriot Airlines" operates illegally from buildings and lands which were stolen from Greek Cypriot owners who were brutally ethnically cleansed by Turkish forces in 1974 and have not been allowed to return in violation of numerous judgments of the European Court of Human Rights and over 100 resolutions of the UN Security Council and General Assembly passed since the illegal Turkish invasion. This land and property includes the illegal "Erkan" airport in the occupied Greek Cypriot village of Tymbou from which its 2000 inhabitants were ethnically cleansed. The resolutions of the UN and the judgments of the ECHR including Loizidou v. Turkey Application no. 15318/89, Cyprus v. Turkey, Application no. 25781/94 and Xenides-Arestis v. Turkey, Application no. 46347 which demand that this property is returned to its original Greek Cypriot owners.

Under Cyprus and EU law the use or exploitation of land or property belonging to Greek Cypriots, without their permission is a criminal offence and carries a two-year prison sentence and a heavy fine. The judgments of the Cyprus courts are enforceable in all EU member states and international arrest warrants can be issued for the arrest of anyone illegally using or exploiting Greek Cypriot property including Lufthansa employees.

The only legal political entity on the island of Cyprus is the Republic of Cyprus, which is the legal government and represents all of the people on the island including both Greek and Turkish Cypriots and whose authority and jurisdiction extends to all parts of the island including the occupied areas. Under the laws of the Republic of Cyprus and the EU it is illegal to enter the island through any ports or airports in the areas illegally occupied by over 40,000 Turkish troops since 1974. All points of entry in the occupied areas have been declared closed by the government of Cyprus and anyone entering through them is responsible for committing a criminal offence, which is punishable by the Cyprus and EU courts. Since the illegal "Erkan" airport in occupied Cyprus is built illegally on land belonging to ethnically cleansed Greek Cypriots from the village of Tymbou anyone entering Cyprus through this airport is liable to arrest in any EU member state and can be sentenced to 2 years imprisonment.

Airlines operating in the occupied part of Cyprus are not under effective control of the government of Cyprus and do not comply with European Union or international regulations including the Chicago Convention. They have not been registered or accredited by the Cyprus Ministry of Trade and their self-declared aviation accreditations are not recognised anywhere in the world except Turkey.

By continuing its relationship with the so-called "Turkish Cypriot Airlines," Lufthansa abets and perpetuates a blatant violation of international law as well as a transgression of basic human rights. I therefore urge you to cancel your so-called education agreement with the illegal "Turkish Cypriot Airlines" if you wish your integrity and reputation to be restored.

THE FACTS

Lufthansa's agreement constitutes;

1.- Violation of Cyprus laws which declare the use of all ports and airports
in the occupied areas illegal.

2.- Violation of Cyprus laws which prohibit the illegal exploitation of
refugees property which now carry a sentence of two years in prison.

3.- Violation of Cyprus laws of trespass

4.- Violation of the European Convention of Human Rights (Right to
property).

6.- Violation of EU customs regulations which prohibit the use of the
illegal ports and airports.

7.- Illegal entry into the Republic of Cyprus.

8.- Illegal entry into the European Union.

9.- Illegal trade across EU borders.

10.- Encouraging the violation of Cyprus and EU laws through the promotion and use of illegal flights, and refugees property.

11.- Violation of the UN Resolutions 541(1983) and 550(1984)

12.- Violation of the Cyprus Flight Information Region.

13.- Illegal entry into Cyprus Air Space.

14.- Ignoring the Air Traffic Control Regulations.

15.- Flying without insurance.

16.- Illegal designation of an air flight.

http://www.greece.org/cyprus/Lufthansa.htm
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Postby Piratis » Wed Oct 22, 2008 3:37 pm

Free movement of EU citizens is not relevant with this issue.

Because I am an EU citizen and I can move freely in all other EU states this doesn't mean I can take a plane and land it wherever I feel like in some other EU country.

There are certain aviation rules that should be followed and these include the airports that a plane can land. The legal airports of each country are declared by the country itself and not by anybody else.

Did you really think that "free movement" of EU citizens also includes free movement of planes without any rules? Sorry to disappoint you, but just like when you are driving a car in a country you have to follow the laws regarding driving, in the same way (but way more strict) when you fly a plane into the airspace of another country you have to follow the rules of that country. You can't just fly and land wherever you feel like.
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Postby Get Real! » Wed Oct 22, 2008 3:37 pm

Oracle wrote:
observer wrote:As I’ve often said before, it’s not illegal just because you don’t like it.


It's illegal because the RoC says so ...

Travellers entering the Republic of Cyprus via the illegal / closed airports and ports (i.e. all the airports and ports in the occupied areas), may still face the consequences of the Laws of the Republic. Therefore, you are urged to travel via the recognised ports of entry, so as to avoid any possible problems (provided that a visa has been granted to you). The legal ports of entry into the Republic of Cyprus are the airports of Larnaca and Paphos and the ports of Larnaca, Limassol, Latsi and Paphos, which are situated in the area under the effective control of the Government of the Republic of Cyprus. Any entry into the territory of the Republic of Cyprus via any other port or airport in the area of Cyprus in which the Government of the Republic does not exercise effective control (Turkish occupied area) is illegal”.

http://www.mfa.gov.cy/mfa/mfa2006.nsf/A ... enDocument


Well done! Another good point. :)
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Postby DT. » Wed Oct 22, 2008 3:39 pm

Piratis wrote:Free movement of EU citizens is not relevant with this issue.

Because I am an EU citizen and I can move freely in all other EU states this doesn't mean I can take a plane and land it wherever I feel like in some other EU country.

There are certain aviation rules that should be followed and these include the airports that a plane can land. The legal airports of each country are declared by the country itself and not by anybody else.

Did you really think that "free movement" of EU citizens also includes free movement of planes without any rules? Sorry to disappoint you, but just like when you are driving a car in a country you have to follow the laws regarding driving, in the same way (but way more strict) when you fly a plane into the airspace of another country you have to follow the rules of that country. You can't just fly and land wherever you feel like.


EU LAW IS SUSPENDED IN THE OCCUPIED PART OF CYPRUS.
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Postby Oracle » Wed Oct 22, 2008 3:39 pm

Now Niki if you want to buckle down and be a good RoC citizen ...



Fact Sheet: Flying to the Republic of Cyprus the Legal Way


♦ All international airlines except for Turkish and Turkish Cypriot Airlines respect the sovereignty of the Republic of Cyprus and fly only into the legal ports of entry of the Republic of Cyprus
♦ Direct flights into occupied Cyprus are inconsistent with the principles of
international law and are in violation of local Cypriot laws.
♦ The sovereignty of the Republic of Cyprus is confirmed by U.N. Security Council Resolutions 514 in 1983 and 550 in 1984.
♦ International law mandates that flights cannot enter a country’s airspace without consent of the sovereign government.
♦ The United States’ domestic law supports international law and the international custom of nations per the Chicago Convention on International Civil Aviation (1944). The Chicago Convention binds all signatories, including the United States, Cyprus, and Turkey.
♦ The Republic of Cyprus has not authorized flights into occupied airports.
♦ Flights into occupied airports raise serious human and property rights issues as the airports are located on seized property resulting from the illegal Turkish invasion.
♦ The Republic of Cyprus encourages visits to the occupied area through legal ports of entry, which is consistent with international law.

http://www.ahiworld.org/pdfs/081005_factsheet.pdf

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Postby Oracle » Wed Oct 22, 2008 3:43 pm

Get Real! wrote:
Oracle wrote:
observer wrote:As I’ve often said before, it’s not illegal just because you don’t like it.


It's illegal because the RoC says so ...

Travellers entering the Republic of Cyprus via the illegal / closed airports and ports (i.e. all the airports and ports in the occupied areas), may still face the consequences of the Laws of the Republic. Therefore, you are urged to travel via the recognised ports of entry, so as to avoid any possible problems (provided that a visa has been granted to you). The legal ports of entry into the Republic of Cyprus are the airports of Larnaca and Paphos and the ports of Larnaca, Limassol, Latsi and Paphos, which are situated in the area under the effective control of the Government of the Republic of Cyprus. Any entry into the territory of the Republic of Cyprus via any other port or airport in the area of Cyprus in which the Government of the Republic does not exercise effective control (Turkish occupied area) is illegal”.

http://www.mfa.gov.cy/mfa/mfa2006.nsf/A ... enDocument


Well done! Another good point. :)


:wink: .... I have friends in high places 8)

:lol:
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Postby Oracle » Wed Oct 22, 2008 3:44 pm

Piratis wrote:Free movement of EU citizens is not relevant with this issue.

Because I am an EU citizen and I can move freely in all other EU states this doesn't mean I can take a plane and land it wherever I feel like in some other EU country.

There are certain aviation rules that should be followed and these include the airports that a plane can land. The legal airports of each country are declared by the country itself and not by anybody else.

Did you really think that "free movement" of EU citizens also includes free movement of planes without any rules? Sorry to disappoint you, but just like when you are driving a car in a country you have to follow the laws regarding driving, in the same way (but way more strict) when you fly a plane into the airspace of another country you have to follow the rules of that country. You can't just fly and land wherever you feel like.


A good practical point .... :D
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Postby DT. » Wed Oct 22, 2008 3:46 pm

Oracle wrote:
Piratis wrote:Free movement of EU citizens is not relevant with this issue.

Because I am an EU citizen and I can move freely in all other EU states this doesn't mean I can take a plane and land it wherever I feel like in some other EU country.

There are certain aviation rules that should be followed and these include the airports that a plane can land. The legal airports of each country are declared by the country itself and not by anybody else.

Did you really think that "free movement" of EU citizens also includes free movement of planes without any rules? Sorry to disappoint you, but just like when you are driving a car in a country you have to follow the laws regarding driving, in the same way (but way more strict) when you fly a plane into the airspace of another country you have to follow the rules of that country. You can't just fly and land wherever you feel like.


A good practical point .... :D


No its not! The occupied part of Cyprus is not under EU law and is therefore not deemed to be an EU country until the government regains its rightful control over it! :twisted:
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