Cyprus-Forum.com

[DT.]

What change will happen? The only thing that can change is for Cyprus to start penalizing those who commit such offenses.

The problem is that EU law takes precedence over national law, so despite being an offence on the RoC statute book, penalisation is impossible for as long as the RoC remains an EU member. Apparently you can now enter the RoC with TRNC stamps in your passport - the authorities cannot use this to deny entry to an EU citizen.

I always believe in following all local laws and customs to the letter when living in another country. As a permanent resident of the RoC I thus refuse to travel to Turkey via Tymbou/Ercan airport or Kyrenia port, although I look forward to being able to do so if there is a settlement. Apparently a large number of RoC citizens break this rule, but that is another story. Quite frankly if I was a British traveller in the region and the cheapest way of getting from Turkey to the government-controlled part of the island was via the north, that's how I would go.

And which is this EU law you are talking about Tim? There is no such thing. Cyprus can start imposing penalties whenever it decides.

This point was established in the court ruling which was referred to earlier in this thread, and the test case even involved a third-country national rather than an EU citizen.

Tim,

that ruling was from a Cypriot court and not an EU court. In addittion the ruling did not say that it was not an offence, simply that there is immunity (for now) on those that commit this offence. The EU noises you've been hearing have been from the EU Commission (specifically one commissioner). For an EU regulation to be passed it will need to go through he European Parliament.

The EU Commission is simply the civil service of the EU. The EP is the legislative and the European Council the executive.

I am not a lawyer, so I am not competent to comment any further. Surely there already exist EU provisions which have the force of law in all member countries concerning the free movement of EU citizens, and this is what comes into play here. This is my understanding as a layman.

The acquis is not in effect in the occupied part of Cyprus and therefore any EU regulations are not applicable there.

[Tim Drayton]

What change will happen? The only thing that can change is for Cyprus to start penalizing those who commit such offenses.

The problem is that EU law takes precedence over national law, so despite being an offence on the RoC statute book, penalisation is impossible for as long as the RoC remains an EU member. Apparently you can now enter the RoC with TRNC stamps in your passport - the authorities cannot use this to deny entry to an EU citizen.

I always believe in following all local laws and customs to the letter when living in another country. As a permanent resident of the RoC I thus refuse to travel to Turkey via Tymbou/Ercan airport or Kyrenia port, although I look forward to being able to do so if there is a settlement. Apparently a large number of RoC citizens break this rule, but that is another story. Quite frankly if I was a British traveller in the region and the cheapest way of getting from Turkey to the government-controlled part of the island was via the north, that's how I would go.

And which is this EU law you are talking about Tim? There is no such thing. Cyprus can start imposing penalties whenever it decides.

This point was established in the court ruling which was referred to earlier in this thread, and the test case even involved a third-country national rather than an EU citizen.

Tim,

that ruling was from a Cypriot court and not an EU court. In addittion the ruling did not say that it was not an offence, simply that there is immunity (for now) on those that commit this offence. The EU noises you've been hearing have been from the EU Commission (specifically one commissioner). For an EU regulation to be passed it will need to go through he European Parliament.

The EU Commission is simply the civil service of the EU. The EP is the legislative and the European Council the executive.

I am not a lawyer, so I am not competent to comment any further. Surely there already exist EU provisions which have the force of law in all member countries concerning the free movement of EU citizens, and this is what comes into play here. This is my understanding as a layman.

The acquis is not in effect in the occupied part of Cyprus and therefore any EU regulations are not applicable there.

We are talking about free entry to the government-controlled areas of the RoC, and prosecution in the government-controlled areas.

[DT.]

What change will happen? The only thing that can change is for Cyprus to start penalizing those who commit such offenses.

The problem is that EU law takes precedence over national law, so despite being an offence on the RoC statute book, penalisation is impossible for as long as the RoC remains an EU member. Apparently you can now enter the RoC with TRNC stamps in your passport - the authorities cannot use this to deny entry to an EU citizen.

I always believe in following all local laws and customs to the letter when living in another country. As a permanent resident of the RoC I thus refuse to travel to Turkey via Tymbou/Ercan airport or Kyrenia port, although I look forward to being able to do so if there is a settlement. Apparently a large number of RoC citizens break this rule, but that is another story. Quite frankly if I was a British traveller in the region and the cheapest way of getting from Turkey to the government-controlled part of the island was via the north, that's how I would go.

And which is this EU law you are talking about Tim? There is no such thing. Cyprus can start imposing penalties whenever it decides.

This point was established in the court ruling which was referred to earlier in this thread, and the test case even involved a third-country national rather than an EU citizen.

Tim,

that ruling was from a Cypriot court and not an EU court. In addittion the ruling did not say that it was not an offence, simply that there is immunity (for now) on those that commit this offence. The EU noises you've been hearing have been from the EU Commission (specifically one commissioner). For an EU regulation to be passed it will need to go through he European Parliament.

The EU Commission is simply the civil service of the EU. The EP is the legislative and the European Council the executive.

I am not a lawyer, so I am not competent to comment any further. Surely there already exist EU provisions which have the force of law in all member countries concerning the free movement of EU citizens, and this is what comes into play here. This is my understanding as a layman.

The acquis is not in effect in the occupied part of Cyprus and therefore any EU regulations are not applicable there.

We are talking about free entry to the government-controlled areas of the RoC, and prosecution in the government-controlled areas.

No we're not. We're talking about the offence of entering a country through an illegal port of entry. An airport not recognised by IATA, the Chicago convention or any UN organisation and a port that is considered "closed" to the world.

The fact that these offences are not punished by the government have more to do with the administrative nightmare this would entail and not on whether or not they are indeed offences or not.

If we had a larger police force, a bigger budget and bigger jails this would be a different discussion, however unlike the occupied part, this is not a police/army state.

[observer]

EU rules effectively guarantee all EU citizens freedom of movement through all EU territories. If RoC claim that the North of the Island is their territory, it follows that RoC claims it is in the EU, and it follows that all EU citizens have freedom of movement to and from the North of the Island.

The claim that Ercan is illegal is just plain rubbish. The planes that land and take off there are clearly known. At Gatwick, Manchester, Stansted and Heathrow passenger baggage going there is openly labeled ECN for Ercan.

As I’ve often said before, it’s not illegal just because you don’t like it.

[DT.]

EU rules effectively guarantee all EU citizens freedom of movement through all EU territories. If RoC claim that the North of the Island is their territory, it follows that RoC claims it is in the EU, and it follows that all EU citizens have freedom of movement to and from the North of the Island.

Read the protocol on cyprus at the entry of Cyprus into the EU.

The Protocol on Cyprus
The Protocol on Cyprus, attached to the Treaty of Accession signed on 16 April 2003 by the Republic of Cyprus, provides for the suspension of the application of the Acquis Communautaire in those areas of the Republic of Cyprus, where the Government of the Republic does not exercise effective control.

The island of Cyprus is the territory of the govt of Cyprus. The govt however does not exercise effective control over the northern part due to the Turkish millitary invasion.

http://www.cyprus.gov.cy/moi/PIO/PIO.ns ... enDocument

[observer]

I think that is what I said:

1. The RoC claim that the North of Cyprus is their territory.
2. The RoC is in the EU.
3. EU citizens can freely travel to all parts of the EU.
4. RoC is in the EU so EU citizens can feely travel to Cyprus.
5. The North is part of Cyprus which is in the EU so all EU citizens can freely travel to the North of Cyprus.

[DT.]

I think that is what I said:

1. The RoC claim that the North of Cyprus is their territory.
2. The RoC is in the EU.
3. EU citizens can freely travel to all parts of the EU.
4. RoC is in the EU so EU citizens can feely travel to Cyprus.
5. The North is part of Cyprus which is in the EU so all EU citizens can freely travel to the North of Cyprus.

are you pretending you can't read?

The Protocol on Cyprus, attached to the Treaty of Accession signed on 16 April 2003 by the Republic of Cyprus, provides for the suspension of the application of the Acquis Communautaire in those areas of the Republic of Cyprus, where the Government of the Republic does not exercise effective control.

[observer]

I think that is what I said:

1. The RoC claim that the North of Cyprus is their territory.
2. The RoC is in the EU.
3. EU citizens can freely travel to all parts of the EU.
4. RoC is in the EU so EU citizens can feely travel to Cyprus.
5. The North is part of Cyprus which is in the EU so all EU citizens can freely travel to the North of Cyprus.

are you pretending you can't read?

The Protocol on Cyprus, attached to the Treaty of Accession signed on 16 April 2003 by the Republic of Cyprus, provides for the suspension of the application of the Acquis Communautaire in those areas of the Republic of Cyprus, where the Government of the Republic does not exercise effective control.

Yes, but we are talking about a court in Cyprus (EU territory) prosecuting someone visiting a part of Cyprus (EU territory) when an EU law (overriding Cypriot law) says that an EU citizen may freely travel throughout the EU.

In the eyes of the RoC and the RoC government, all of Cyprus is in the EU whether the application of the Acquis Communitaire is suspended or not.

[DT.]

I think that is what I said:

1. The RoC claim that the North of Cyprus is their territory.
2. The RoC is in the EU.
3. EU citizens can freely travel to all parts of the EU.
4. RoC is in the EU so EU citizens can feely travel to Cyprus.
5. The North is part of Cyprus which is in the EU so all EU citizens can freely travel to the North of Cyprus.

are you pretending you can't read?

The Protocol on Cyprus, attached to the Treaty of Accession signed on 16 April 2003 by the Republic of Cyprus, provides for the suspension of the application of the Acquis Communautaire in those areas of the Republic of Cyprus, where the Government of the Republic does not exercise effective control.

Yes, but we are talking about a court in Cyprus (EU territory) prosecuting someone visiting a part of Cyprus (EU territory) when an EU law (overriding Cypriot law) says that an EU citizen may freely travel throughout the EU.

In the eyes of the RoC and the RoC government, all of Cyprus is in the EU whether the application of the Acquis Communitaire is suspended or not.

EU law is temporarily suspended in the occupied part of Cyprus. Why can you not understand this? It is not covered by EU law, treaties or regulations. The acquis communitaire is suspended pending the effective control of the govt being reinstated in that territory.

When you enter through the illegal airport at Tymbou you are not entering the EU via a port of the EU.

[Get Real!]

As I’ve often said before, it’s not illegal just because you don’t like it.

Your prayers have been answered...

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/cyprus20434.html