Cyprus-Forum.com

[CopperLine]

I'd previously given you more credit than you've just warranted, Get Real. Your response to the PanAm Lockerbie case is to post some truly absurd conspiracy links. Moreover you shift the ground from the original contention that an airliner was happily shot down for breaching airspace to a contention that an airliner was bombed allegedly because of an incident committed by a third party in a third country three years earlier.

Your response is just plain silly.

[Viewpoint]

Each to their own and survival of the fitest thats how the world works...

Good point! And that explains why you were squashed by the Greek Cypriots so you should accept your fate and quit getting Turkey to prolong your survival because you are NOT the fittest on Cyprus are you now?

You are totally right the GCs were beating the shit out of us 1963-1974 until we sided with the Turks and we knocked you for six making us the fittest. Turkey guarantees our survival not exposing us to your beatings.

[Sotos]

And before that you were beating us for 300 years. You started it. So why don't you finally let our island free so we can have peace?

[Get Real!]

Each to their own and survival of the fitest thats how the world works...

Good point! And that explains why you were squashed by the Greek Cypriots so you should accept your fate and quit getting Turkey to prolong your survival because you are NOT the fittest on Cyprus are you now?

You are totally right the GCs were beating the shit out of us 1963-1974 until we sided with the Turks and we knocked you for six making us the fittest. Turkey guarantees our survival not exposing us to your beatings.

A bankrupt minority the fittest?

Whether you like it or not VP your people are destined for extinction.

[CopperLine]

Whether you like it or not VP your people are destined for extinction.

So Get Real, so Nazi in its wishful sentiment.

[Viewpoint]

And before that you were beating us for 300 years. You started it. So why don't you finally let our island free so we can have peace?

When you realize its our island as well and that we are not going anywhere, the peaceful exsistence you have enjoyed for the past 34 years is about as good as its gonna get for you.

[Viewpoint]

Each to their own and survival of the fitest thats how the world works...

Good point! And that explains why you were squashed by the Greek Cypriots so you should accept your fate and quit getting Turkey to prolong your survival because you are NOT the fittest on Cyprus are you now?

You are totally right the GCs were beating the shit out of us 1963-1974 until we sided with the Turks and we knocked you for six making us the fittest. Turkey guarantees our survival not exposing us to your beatings.

A bankrupt minority the fittest?

Whether you like it or not VP your people are destined for extinction.

Thank you for your concern but never forget we are just as much Turkish as we are Cypriot, so returning to your roots is noot becoming extinct.

[Paphitis]

The ICAO Chicago Convention was amended in 1984 to specifically prohibit the use of force against civil aircraft (following the KAL 007 incident, which remains rather mysterious). So Oracle's nonsense about happily shooting down airliners that enter another's airspace remains just that : nonsense.

Copperline,

I ask you to provide any evidence that suggests that it is illegal for any nation to shoot down an airliner which has violated its FIR, Restricted or Controlled airspace or has deviated from the cleared flight path.

Nations do have this right, and many nations WILL shoot down an airliner under certain circumstances.

What you say is total nonsense.

[Sotos]

I ask you to provide any evidence that suggests that it is illegal for any nation to shoot down an airliner which has violated its FIR, Restricted or Controlled airspace or has deviated from the cleared flight path.

This is even more true after 9/11. No country allows airliners to move uncontrolled in their airspace!!

[CopperLine]

Paphitis,
It is pretty straightforward really. I don't know why you're making it so unnecessarily difficult.

Prior to the 1984 Chicago Convention amendment there was not an explicit phrase in the convention outlawing the shooting down of civilian airliners. Mainly as a result of the tragedy of KAL 007 it was determined by the parties to the Convention that an explicit clause be added to the Convention. So no you are wrong to say that "nations do have this right" [to shoot down civilian aircraft]. RoC and Turkey are ICAO signatories. (Of course TRNC is not a signatory but it does have an erga omnes obligation not too shoot down innocents air travllers). If you are so keen, Paphitis, on this 'shoot down violators' assertion then if your principle is generalised this would allow any entity, recognised or not, to gratuitously shoot down civilian airliners. A daft proposition whichever way you look at it.

So put in simple language : the shooting down of civilian aircraft is outlawed. Full stop. Are civilian aircraft occasionally still shot down ? Yes, of course. But that does not make the shooting down of civilian aircraft any more lawful !! [Any more than the fact that killings still occur makes murder any more lawful]

That a civilian aircraft enters restricted/prohibited airspace does not give the jurdical authority licence to shoot it down !!! That someone cuts you up on the road does not give you licence to run them off the road. That your rights have been breached does not give you licence to breach another person's rights, nor does it mean that the other person's rights have been lost or been put in abeyance.

Tit-for-tat and anything-goes is not the basis of modern law.


There's something much more disturbing that has emerged in this thread and it is that some people are vicariously contemplating (and excusing) the shooting down of civilian airliners. Specifically if civilian airliners violate RoC airspace then, the implication is, its OK to shoot them down. Are you guys serious ??? Is this something which you'd see for all airliners, or just those flying to northern Cyprus ?