Dear All
I have posted many msgs in this forum.
By this one I am just asking :What you feel/thing about the member "Epsilon"?
PS:Administrator: do not involve in this case
WHAT YOU KNOW ABOUT "EPSILON"
18 posts
• Page 1 of 2 • 1, 2
WHAT YOU KNOW ABOUT "EPSILON"
by EPSILON » Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:15 pm
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EPSILON - Regular Contributor
- Posts: 2851
- Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 2:28 pm
- Location: ATHENS
by denizaksulu » Tue Oct 21, 2008 7:16 pm
Emotional and talks through the heart. Sometimes a bit naive, but on the whole a decent chap/ess.
I have been wrong often btw.
I have been wrong often btw.
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denizaksulu - Forum Addict
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by denizaksulu » Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:17 pm
EPSILON wrote:denizaksulu wrote:Emotional and talks through the heart. Sometimes a bit naive, but on the whole a decent chap/ess.
I have been wrong often btw.
Thanks for commenting
That sounded very glum.
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denizaksulu - Forum Addict
- Posts: 36077
- Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 11:04 am
Now, I hope you buy me beer if we ever meet. 
by Oracle » Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:25 pm
EPSILON .... I like you. 
I thought you may have been a student in your twenties because of the freshness of your concern for Cyprus, the mess it is in, and the quirkiness of your views.
But a recent post, put you at the same age as me, and now I feel sad that you know Cyprus as I know Cyprus ... and for me there is great sadness, so I guess same goes for you too.
I would like to know more about you ... what are you doing in Athens? What kind of job do you have? Family?
Because I think you are such a real Cypriot, love Cyprus and you are annoyed at those that have ruined everything for our children's future ...
You could get away with being a lot more anti-Turkish you know ... they are truly nasty!
I thought you may have been a student in your twenties because of the freshness of your concern for Cyprus, the mess it is in, and the quirkiness of your views.
But a recent post, put you at the same age as me, and now I feel sad that you know Cyprus as I know Cyprus ... and for me there is great sadness, so I guess same goes for you too.
I would like to know more about you ... what are you doing in Athens? What kind of job do you have? Family?
Because I think you are such a real Cypriot, love Cyprus and you are annoyed at those that have ruined everything for our children's future ...
You could get away with being a lot more anti-Turkish you know ... they are truly nasty!
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Oracle - Leading Contributor
- Posts: 23507
- Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:13 am
- Location: Anywhere but...
by Bananiot » Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:44 pm
Something for you to read EPSILON, a gift from uncle Nikos:
Words, words - words?
- Hail to you Socrates! Where on earth have you been?
- Here in Athens, friend. You know I hate travel...
- But then, something must have kept you away. Suddenly the Agora was not the same anymore. Have you been ill?
- No, my health is always excellent.
- Was it ...Xanthippe?
- I was pondering over a problem. It absorbed me so much that I spend days and nights in meditation, forgetting to eat, drink and sleep.
- Now that you mention eating -- you do look a bit slimmer. But why didn't you bring your problem to the Agora? You use to say that discussion is the only means of tackling and solving problems.
- Tackling, yes. Solving, no. No serious problem can be solved, it can only be stated, investigated and illuminated. This is a process that will be repeated unlimited times by unlimited people.
- All right -- I have listened to your inconclusive dialogues. What was so different this time?
- Well, it was not that I could not solve this problem -- since I do not believe in final solutions. It was mainly that I failed to grasp it, to state it clearly, to understand it.
- Well, then it was not a real problem...
- Real enough to have people want to fight and die for it!
- If you cannot state it -- can you describe it?
- I will try. Suppose someone comes to me and says: Now Socrates, son of Sophroniscos, I will use your name. I will call myself Socrates too. What shall I do?
- But there are many people in Athens called Socrates. I don't understand...
- O.K. this was a bad example. Suppose the Thebans decide they will call themselves Leontians -- after one of the ten Athenian tribes. What should the original Leontians do?
- Well, I don't know. Is it so bad?
- That is my question. Some people say: “our name is our soul!”. They would fight to keep the exclusive rights to it. Others maintain “what's in a name?” and claim the issue is purely academic.
- How did you ever come to this question?
- It came to me in a dream. Oneiros brought it to me. It was a dream of a strange world. Imagine: Athens and Sparta were not enemies -- not even rivals. There were no fights among Corinthians, Thebans and Aetolians. But somebody had usurped a name, and the issue was very important.
- Now, the first thing that comes to my mind is that if someone takes my name, it will confuse everybody. We use names to design people or objects. If I say Nicodemus, this is me. As there are others who bear that first name, one would have to add my father's name and maybe my occupation. If another person uses the same combination, I will have to do something to keep us apart.
- Would you kill him?
- No -- for Zeus's sake! I would try to explain to him that it was not convenient and would create problems for all of us.
- Suppose he would insist. Suppose that the reason he took your name was to profit from your reputation. You are a well-known person, you belong to an illustrious family, you are rich, you have influence... He could exploit all this!
- Oh no, he couldn't! People know me and my history. They would smile at him and say: Come on -- you're not Nicodemus!
- And if he met people who know you only from hearsay?
- You mean he would pose for me -- as an impostor! Well then I would sue him and bring him to court!
- So, you see, there is a problem.
- Not if somebody just uses a name -- but if he tries to swindle and deceive people. If he only wants to call himself Nicodemus -- he is welcome!
- Isn't the use of a foreign name by itself a deception?
- Depends on the name. First names are common to many people. Now, if we are talking about Leontians or Thebans -- that is different. These names are exclusive. On the other side, the use of such a name does not lead to confusion or fraud. I do not see any harm if one takes the name of another tribe -- or another city for that...
- You mean the Corinthians could call themselves Athenians?
- Why should they?
- To partake in the glory of Athens.
-They would make themselves the laughing-stock of the Greeks! Like transvestites!
- Do you believe a name is something holy -- that it holds a meaning of its own?
- A name is just a word -- what can be holy about it?
- Doesn't the name Zeus imply holiness?
- It is the god who is holy, not the name. If you called the supreme God Osiris, as the Egyptians do, it would not change anything.
- Ah, but I think you are looking at the matter superficially. You know my concern with definitions. I am constantly trying to find out: if two people are just, what do they have in common? A property that can be called justice? I am looking for the single and essential form common to all things of the same kind.
- I know Socrates - I was a witness to most of your discussions -- on virtue, beauty, valor, goodness. But here we have the opposite situation. We are talking about proper names -- and they are not general.
- No, we are also talking about generic names: Athenians, Thebans, Spartans. We can use the same questions and the same method. We can ask: what do Athenians have in common that other people do not?
- They all speak the Attic dialect.
- It is also spoken in other cities. And what if a foreigner learns the language perfectly -- does that make him an Athenian?
- It will never make him an Athenian citizen!
- I admit, it is difficult, but it has been done. I still try to find a property which is unique and specific. Being born in Athens is not enough -- many immigrants are -- and many Athenians come to the world in other places.
- What about feeling Athenian? A sense of belonging...
- That could also exist in an alien. I know a Milesian who feels more Athenian than I do.
- But where are you aiming at?
- I want to find out if a name is an essential part of a man's being. If it is so important that one should risk his life to defend it.
- You once said that one's country is more important than father, mother and all ancestors...
- I was speaking about Reason and Laws -- not about names... That is my problem. To fight for liberty, for justice or even merely to defend your land, your property -- that I understand. To fight for a name...
- But it is not merely a name -- it is a symbol. It stands for everything you have mentioned: freedom, justice, honor...
- A symbol... I thought of that too. But I am wary of symbols. They are usually tainted with feeling. I do not trust emotions. Reason has never killed anybody, but passion, zealotry and fanaticism are disastrous. Emotions are bad counselors. People should follow their critical judgment.
- And why do you follow your demon?
- My δαιμόνιον is rational one -- it speaks with the voice of λόγος. And I always examine logically its suggestions.
- Sometimes, Socrates, I think you are a cogitating machine.
- A machine would never be willing to die for its beliefs. But for a name...
- If you believe in it?
- What exactly do you believe in? I fear that sometimes the symbol becomes an end in itself. People forget the essence and fight for empty forms. Words, words, words. The politicians and the demagogues are filling the world with words.
- Plato, your brightest pupil, is in love with words. He has elevated concepts to archetypes -- the Ideas.
- It is getting late. I feel extremely tired. I need sleep. I think I am going home now...
Words, words - words?
- Hail to you Socrates! Where on earth have you been?
- Here in Athens, friend. You know I hate travel...
- But then, something must have kept you away. Suddenly the Agora was not the same anymore. Have you been ill?
- No, my health is always excellent.
- Was it ...Xanthippe?
- I was pondering over a problem. It absorbed me so much that I spend days and nights in meditation, forgetting to eat, drink and sleep.
- Now that you mention eating -- you do look a bit slimmer. But why didn't you bring your problem to the Agora? You use to say that discussion is the only means of tackling and solving problems.
- Tackling, yes. Solving, no. No serious problem can be solved, it can only be stated, investigated and illuminated. This is a process that will be repeated unlimited times by unlimited people.
- All right -- I have listened to your inconclusive dialogues. What was so different this time?
- Well, it was not that I could not solve this problem -- since I do not believe in final solutions. It was mainly that I failed to grasp it, to state it clearly, to understand it.
- Well, then it was not a real problem...
- Real enough to have people want to fight and die for it!
- If you cannot state it -- can you describe it?
- I will try. Suppose someone comes to me and says: Now Socrates, son of Sophroniscos, I will use your name. I will call myself Socrates too. What shall I do?
- But there are many people in Athens called Socrates. I don't understand...
- O.K. this was a bad example. Suppose the Thebans decide they will call themselves Leontians -- after one of the ten Athenian tribes. What should the original Leontians do?
- Well, I don't know. Is it so bad?
- That is my question. Some people say: “our name is our soul!”. They would fight to keep the exclusive rights to it. Others maintain “what's in a name?” and claim the issue is purely academic.
- How did you ever come to this question?
- It came to me in a dream. Oneiros brought it to me. It was a dream of a strange world. Imagine: Athens and Sparta were not enemies -- not even rivals. There were no fights among Corinthians, Thebans and Aetolians. But somebody had usurped a name, and the issue was very important.
- Now, the first thing that comes to my mind is that if someone takes my name, it will confuse everybody. We use names to design people or objects. If I say Nicodemus, this is me. As there are others who bear that first name, one would have to add my father's name and maybe my occupation. If another person uses the same combination, I will have to do something to keep us apart.
- Would you kill him?
- No -- for Zeus's sake! I would try to explain to him that it was not convenient and would create problems for all of us.
- Suppose he would insist. Suppose that the reason he took your name was to profit from your reputation. You are a well-known person, you belong to an illustrious family, you are rich, you have influence... He could exploit all this!
- Oh no, he couldn't! People know me and my history. They would smile at him and say: Come on -- you're not Nicodemus!
- And if he met people who know you only from hearsay?
- You mean he would pose for me -- as an impostor! Well then I would sue him and bring him to court!
- So, you see, there is a problem.
- Not if somebody just uses a name -- but if he tries to swindle and deceive people. If he only wants to call himself Nicodemus -- he is welcome!
- Isn't the use of a foreign name by itself a deception?
- Depends on the name. First names are common to many people. Now, if we are talking about Leontians or Thebans -- that is different. These names are exclusive. On the other side, the use of such a name does not lead to confusion or fraud. I do not see any harm if one takes the name of another tribe -- or another city for that...
- You mean the Corinthians could call themselves Athenians?
- Why should they?
- To partake in the glory of Athens.
-They would make themselves the laughing-stock of the Greeks! Like transvestites!
- Do you believe a name is something holy -- that it holds a meaning of its own?
- A name is just a word -- what can be holy about it?
- Doesn't the name Zeus imply holiness?
- It is the god who is holy, not the name. If you called the supreme God Osiris, as the Egyptians do, it would not change anything.
- Ah, but I think you are looking at the matter superficially. You know my concern with definitions. I am constantly trying to find out: if two people are just, what do they have in common? A property that can be called justice? I am looking for the single and essential form common to all things of the same kind.
- I know Socrates - I was a witness to most of your discussions -- on virtue, beauty, valor, goodness. But here we have the opposite situation. We are talking about proper names -- and they are not general.
- No, we are also talking about generic names: Athenians, Thebans, Spartans. We can use the same questions and the same method. We can ask: what do Athenians have in common that other people do not?
- They all speak the Attic dialect.
- It is also spoken in other cities. And what if a foreigner learns the language perfectly -- does that make him an Athenian?
- It will never make him an Athenian citizen!
- I admit, it is difficult, but it has been done. I still try to find a property which is unique and specific. Being born in Athens is not enough -- many immigrants are -- and many Athenians come to the world in other places.
- What about feeling Athenian? A sense of belonging...
- That could also exist in an alien. I know a Milesian who feels more Athenian than I do.
- But where are you aiming at?
- I want to find out if a name is an essential part of a man's being. If it is so important that one should risk his life to defend it.
- You once said that one's country is more important than father, mother and all ancestors...
- I was speaking about Reason and Laws -- not about names... That is my problem. To fight for liberty, for justice or even merely to defend your land, your property -- that I understand. To fight for a name...
- But it is not merely a name -- it is a symbol. It stands for everything you have mentioned: freedom, justice, honor...
- A symbol... I thought of that too. But I am wary of symbols. They are usually tainted with feeling. I do not trust emotions. Reason has never killed anybody, but passion, zealotry and fanaticism are disastrous. Emotions are bad counselors. People should follow their critical judgment.
- And why do you follow your demon?
- My δαιμόνιον is rational one -- it speaks with the voice of λόγος. And I always examine logically its suggestions.
- Sometimes, Socrates, I think you are a cogitating machine.
- A machine would never be willing to die for its beliefs. But for a name...
- If you believe in it?
- What exactly do you believe in? I fear that sometimes the symbol becomes an end in itself. People forget the essence and fight for empty forms. Words, words, words. The politicians and the demagogues are filling the world with words.
- Plato, your brightest pupil, is in love with words. He has elevated concepts to archetypes -- the Ideas.
- It is getting late. I feel extremely tired. I need sleep. I think I am going home now...
-
Bananiot - Main Contributor
- Posts: 6397
- Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2004 10:51 pm
- Location: Nicosia
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