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Black Power Rising in the USA! .....

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Re: Black Power Rising in the USA! .....

Postby yialousa1971 » Wed Nov 12, 2008 6:29 pm

Oracle wrote:
yialousa1971 wrote:
Oracle wrote:
kurupetos wrote:
Oracle wrote:
yialousa1971 wrote: ...

This assymetry is due to the fact that individuals of partial African ancestry were reckoned to be "Black", no matter what the exact percentage of their African ancestry.


...


This is the point I was making. Any signs of negroid ancestry and people have to face the prejudices that go with being "Black". Of course there may be a gradation of discrimination concomitant with levels of melanisation.


Oracle knock yourself out. :roll: I have some food for you. :wink: :roll:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule


Shockimg! :shock: Reminders of Ku Klux Klan and the worst of the US!

Thank goodness we have Genetic Fingerprinting now which is breaking down these pre-conceived notions and showing how similar our DNA is irrespective of skin colour / eye colour :roll:


So you don't believe in race then? :?:


Scientifically there is no basis to divide people into races. So there is only one Human Race. The DNA differences between any two individuals in any sample can be more different than any perceived differences between classically assigned racial groups. So they do not exist, genetically.

The simple way to see how that works is if you look at a brother and sister. There's your biggest difference in DNA right away ... the sex chromosomes.

That aside, it's relatively common for siblings to have different colour eyes, hair, inheritance of genes for diabetes, cancer etc. These are due to DNA differences ... but would you say they should be put into different races just because one had blue eyes, brown hair and the other, brown eyes and blond hair?

These phenotypic differences were used in the past to set up races but they do not stand up to validation with statistically significant DNA sequence analysis.


You contradict yourself, how did they find out that Afro Americans/Caribbeans have Caucasian blood. You did agree with what I posted didn't you ? :twisted: Race is not defined with eye colour or hair colour but different races do have different types of hair such kinky hair. There were three races, Caucasian, Mongolian and Negroid. Now there is a fourth type, Mixed which includes Afro American/Caribbeans and Turks. Various Genetic studies have proved this ie. like the one about the Turks which showed they are part Mongolian but have large amounts of Caucasian blood (Armenian, Greek and Slavic), funny enough they have the blood of the people they hate the most.
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Re: Black Power Rising in the USA! .....

Postby Oracle » Wed Nov 12, 2008 6:48 pm

yialousa1971 wrote:
Oracle wrote:
yialousa1971 wrote:
Oracle wrote:
kurupetos wrote:
Oracle wrote:
yialousa1971 wrote: ...

This assymetry is due to the fact that individuals of partial African ancestry were reckoned to be "Black", no matter what the exact percentage of their African ancestry.


...


This is the point I was making. Any signs of negroid ancestry and people have to face the prejudices that go with being "Black". Of course there may be a gradation of discrimination concomitant with levels of melanisation.


Oracle knock yourself out. :roll: I have some food for you. :wink: :roll:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule


Shockimg! :shock: Reminders of Ku Klux Klan and the worst of the US!

Thank goodness we have Genetic Fingerprinting now which is breaking down these pre-conceived notions and showing how similar our DNA is irrespective of skin colour / eye colour :roll:


So you don't believe in race then? :?:


Scientifically there is no basis to divide people into races. So there is only one Human Race. The DNA differences between any two individuals in any sample can be more different than any perceived differences between classically assigned racial groups. So they do not exist, genetically.

The simple way to see how that works is if you look at a brother and sister. There's your biggest difference in DNA right away ... the sex chromosomes.

That aside, it's relatively common for siblings to have different colour eyes, hair, inheritance of genes for diabetes, cancer etc. These are due to DNA differences ... but would you say they should be put into different races just because one had blue eyes, brown hair and the other, brown eyes and blond hair?

These phenotypic differences were used in the past to set up races but they do not stand up to validation with statistically significant DNA sequence analysis.


You contradict yourself, how did they find out that Afro Americans/Caribbeans have Caucasian blood. You did agree with what I posted didn't you ? :twisted: Race is not defined with eye colour or hair colour but different races do have different types of hair such kinky hair. There were three races, Caucasian, Mongolian and Negroid. Now there is a fourth type, Mixed which includes Afro American/Caribbeans and Turks. Various Genetic studies have proved this ie. like the one about the Turks which showed they are part Mongolian but have large amounts of Caucasian blood (Armenian, Greek and Slavic), funny enough they have the blood of the people they hate the most.


Those differences are usually single base changes. Not enough to assign into races. It does not mean you cannot trace back ancestry, migrations etc (via DNA fingerprinting) though. But DNA sequencing is so precise that even single molecule variations of the building-blocks can be used to distinguish between individuals ... but those small changes do not determine race.

I know it is a hard concept to grasp when people are intent on making out we are so different genetically.

We are not.

Main differences are cultural, not genetic. :wink:
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Re: Black Power Rising in the USA! .....

Postby yialousa1971 » Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:38 pm

Oracle wrote:Those differences are usually single base changes. Not enough to assign into races. It does not mean you cannot trace back ancestry, migrations etc (via DNA fingerprinting) though. But DNA sequencing is so precise that even single molecule variations of the building-blocks can be used to distinguish between individuals ... but those small changes do not determine race.

I know it is a hard concept to grasp when people are intent on making out we are so different genetically.

We are not.

Main differences are cultural, not genetic. :wink:


I'am sory to be the one to tell you this but Race does exist, this has been proved with both Anthropology and Genetics. :D
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Re: Black Power Rising in the USA! .....

Postby Oracle » Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:42 pm

yialousa1971 wrote:
Oracle wrote:Those differences are usually single base changes. Not enough to assign into races. It does not mean you cannot trace back ancestry, migrations etc (via DNA fingerprinting) though. But DNA sequencing is so precise that even single molecule variations of the building-blocks can be used to distinguish between individuals ... but those small changes do not determine race.

I know it is a hard concept to grasp when people are intent on making out we are so different genetically.

We are not.

Main differences are cultural, not genetic. :wink:


I'am sory to be the one to tell you this but Race does exist, this has been proved with both Anthropology and Genetics. :D


You are a sad case clinging to old fashioned beliefs ... provide the "evidence" so that I can break it down for you into bite-size, easily digestible chunks! :D

Believe nothing just because a so-called wise person said it. Believe nothing just because a belief is generally held. Believe nothing just because it is said in ancient books. Believe nothing just because it is said to be of divine origin. Believe nothing just because someone else believes it. Believe only what you yourself test and judge to be true. [paraphrased]
Buddha
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Re: Black Power Rising in the USA! .....

Postby yialousa1971 » Thu Nov 13, 2008 1:08 am

Oracle wrote:
yialousa1971 wrote:
Oracle wrote:Those differences are usually single base changes. Not enough to assign into races. It does not mean you cannot trace back ancestry, migrations etc (via DNA fingerprinting) though. But DNA sequencing is so precise that even single molecule variations of the building-blocks can be used to distinguish between individuals ... but those small changes do not determine race.

I know it is a hard concept to grasp when people are intent on making out we are so different genetically.

We are not.

Main differences are cultural, not genetic. :wink:


I'am sory to be the one to tell you this but Race does exist, this has been proved with both Anthropology and Genetics. :D


You are a sad case clinging to old fashioned beliefs ... provide the "evidence" so that I can break it down for you into bite-size, easily digestible chunks! :D

Believe nothing just because a so-called wise person said it. Believe nothing just because a belief is generally held. Believe nothing just because it is said in ancient books. Believe nothing just because it is said to be of divine origin. Believe nothing just because someone else believes it. Believe only what you yourself test and judge to be true. [paraphrased]
Buddha


Buddha, what the hell! Provide scientific data not some Asian bald statue quote. Forget the Judeo Commie/Liberal Atheism rubbish, are you a student of that Richard Dawkins? Heres a good Website for a start :-

http://racialreality.110mb.com/

Feel free to ask questions, I will try and ask. Btw I'am not sad at present, I've had a few Keo's. :)
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Re: Black Power Rising in the USA! .....

Postby Oracle » Thu Nov 13, 2008 1:16 am

yialousa1971 wrote:
Oracle wrote:
yialousa1971 wrote:
Oracle wrote:Those differences are usually single base changes. Not enough to assign into races. It does not mean you cannot trace back ancestry, migrations etc (via DNA fingerprinting) though. But DNA sequencing is so precise that even single molecule variations of the building-blocks can be used to distinguish between individuals ... but those small changes do not determine race.

I know it is a hard concept to grasp when people are intent on making out we are so different genetically.

We are not.

Main differences are cultural, not genetic. :wink:


I'am sory to be the one to tell you this but Race does exist, this has been proved with both Anthropology and Genetics. :D


You are a sad case clinging to old fashioned beliefs ... provide the "evidence" so that I can break it down for you into bite-size, easily digestible chunks! :D

Believe nothing just because a so-called wise person said it. Believe nothing just because a belief is generally held. Believe nothing just because it is said in ancient books. Believe nothing just because it is said to be of divine origin. Believe nothing just because someone else believes it. Believe only what you yourself test and judge to be true. [paraphrased]
Buddha


Buddha, what the hell! Provide scientific data not some Asian bald statue quote. Forget the Judeo Commie/Liberal Atheism rubbish, are you a student of that Richard Dawkins?


The Buddha quote was icing sugar :wink: .... now where's the "race" evidence so that I can rip it to shreds .... 8)

I'll have it for breakfast .... Goodnight!

Edit:

Oh I see you added a link whilst I was posting ... I'll tell you from now, you'd better find something better by tomorrow if you want to hold on to your racist beliefs :lol:
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Postby yialousa1971 » Thu Nov 13, 2008 2:08 am

Oracle you make me laugh, what have you posted that proves your point, nothing I say. Do you know who Carleton Steven Coon was? Read this tonight but be warned you will not sleep a wink once you realise you have been lied too!

On the Antiquity of Races by Carleton Stevens Coon.

At the dawn of of history, which is another way of saying "beginning with Herodotus," literate people of the ancient world were well aware that mankind was divided into a number of clearly differentiated races. Even before that, racial differentiation can be traced back to at least 3,000 B.C., as evidenced in Egyptian records, particularly the artistic representations. We also have pictures of white people on the walls of western European caves which are as much as 20,000 years older.

How many kinds of people there were in the world was not really known until after the voyages of discovery that tore the veil from the Americas, the Pacific islands, and Australia. Even then the problem of classifying the races remained, and it has not been settled to this day.

For present purposes I am using a conservative and tentative classification of the living peoples of the world into five basically geographical groups: the Caucasoid, Mongoloid, Australoid, Congoid, and Capoid. The first includes Europeans and their overseas kinsmen, the Middle Eastern Whites from Morocco to West Pakistan, and most of the peoples of India, as well as the Ainu of Japan. The second includes most of the East Asiatics, Indonesians Polynesians, Micronesians, American Indians, and Eskimo. In the third category fall the Australian aborigines, Melanesians, Papuans, some of the tribal folk of India, and the various Negritos of South Asia and Oceania. The fourth comprises the Negroes and Pygmies of Africa. I have named it after a region (not a specific nation) which contains both kinds of people. The term Negroid has been deliberately omitted to avoid confusion. It has been applied both to Africans and to spiral-haired peoples of southern Asia and Oceania who are not genetically related to each other, as far as we know.1 Negroid will be used in this book to denote a condition, not a geographical subspecies. The fifth group includes the Bushmen and Hottentots and other relict tribes, like the Sandawe of Tanganyika. It is called Capoid after the Cape of Good Hope. If this subspecies once occupied Morocco the cape can be thought of as Cape Spartel. Either way, the term is appropriate.

My aim in this book is to see how far back in prehistoric antiquity these human racial groups can be traced. Did they all branch off a common stem recently, that is, within a few tens of thousands of years, after mankind had evolved as a single unit to the evolutionary state of the most primitive living peoples? Or did their moment of separation lie lower down on the time scale, when long-extinct types like the so-called ape men of Java and China were still alive? If the second is true, much of the evolution of the different existing races may have taken place separately and in parallel fashion over a period of hundreds, rather than tens, of thousands of years. The first hypothesis is the one more commonly held, but it presents some impressive stumbling blocks!

If all races had a recent common origin, how does it happen that some peoples, like the Tasmanians and many of the Australian aborigines, were still living during the nineteenth century in a manner comparable to that of Europeans of over - oo,ooo years ago? Either the common ancestors of the Tasmanians cum Australians and of the Europeans parted company, in remote Pleistocene antiquity, or else the Australians and Tasmanians have done some rapid cultural backsliding, which archaeological evidence disproves.

If the ancestors of the living races of mankind were a single a few thousands of years ago and they all spoke a single language, how does it happen that the world contains thousands of languages, hundreds of which are unrelated to each other, and some of which even use such odd sounds as clicks? Some languages are tonal and others are not, and the difference between a tonal and a nontonal language is basic and profound. Eskimo and Aleut, which are closely related languages, have been separated for about two thousand years. It takes at least twenty thousand years for two sister languages to lose all semblance of relationship.' If, therefore, all languages are derived from a single mother tongue, the original separation must go back many times that figure. The only alternative is that more than one line of ancestral man discovered speech independently. Even so, the number of languages spoken by a single subspecies, the Mongoloid, is great enough to imply a vast antiquity.
All the evidence available from comparative ethnology, linguistics, and prehistoric archaeology indicates a long separation of the principal races of man. This is contrary to the current idea that Homo sapiens arose in Europe or western Asia about 35,000 B.C., fully formed as from the brow of Zeus, and spread over the world at that time, while the archaic species of men who had preceded him became conveniently extinct. Actually, the homines sapientes in question were morphologically the same as living Europeans. To derive an Australian aborigine or a Congo Pygmy from European ancestors of modern type would be biologically impossible.
The current idea is based on the study of comparative anatomy without reference to evolution, and a misunderstanding of paleontology. One anatomist, Morant,' found by means of a number of measurements taken on less than ten Neanderthal skulls that this ancient population differed in mean measurements from a number of modern populations more than the modern skulls differ from each other. The differences reflected mainly the fact that Neanderthal men had low, flattish cranial vaults and protruding faces; but these features could have come from a small number of genes concerned with adaptation to cold weather. Since 1927, when Morant's study was published, "progressive" and "transitional" high-headed Neanderthals have been unearthed in western Asia. These new discoveries suggest that the total extinction of that fossil race is unlikely. We now have fossil skulls from China, Africa, and Europe, found since Morant studied the Neanderthals, which closely resemble the modern races in features that seem to have evolved and been handed down locally. Such features in clude the extent to which the face is flat or beak-like, the shape of the nasal bones, and the size ratio of front teeth to molars. If we grant that races, like the species to which they belong, can evolve, our problem becomes simpler.

The misinterpretation of paleontology by nonpaleontologists came about naturally. Anyone who studies the family trees of various lines of animals over millions of years is bound to be impressed by the multitude of extinct species, and to notice that the living animal species are descended from very few ancestral ones. When this observation is applied to many forms of life over the span of geological time, it holds true; but for man it does not. Man is little more than a half million years old. Geologically speaking, we were born yesterday. The fossil men now extinct differed from each other in race, and were not members of separate species except in the sense that one species grew out of another.

As human beings are animals, they are subject to the same laws of evolutionary change that govern the rises and falls of other species and their transmutations into increasingly complex and efficient forms. Therefore we have two jobs to do: (i) to survey the rules of species formation and the differentiation of races, including the composition of populations, systems of mating, differential fertility, and geographical adaptation at different ecological levels, as they may apply to man; and (z) to go over with a fine-toothed comb all the original evidence about fossil specimens of man and his predecessors which can be found. This includes actual specimens, casts, and technical reports, some lying on the bottom shelves of library stacks, with pages still uncut, and undisturbed for decades. Because few textbook writers have bothered to consult these primary sources, few new ideas about the evolution of races have reached the public for a long time.

http://carnby.altervista.org/toor/01-01.htm

Don't call me a racist because you don't like what I post, prove what you think is true. Forget the junk science ie. Einstein, Dawkins or Hawking, embrace the true geniuses such as Archimedes or Tesla. :idea:
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Postby Oracle » Thu Nov 13, 2008 2:01 pm

Yialousa, but we are attacking this from two precisely contrasting viewpoints! Yours is outdated and does not take into account recent DNA evidence and scientific analysis of the significance of any statistical differences or absences.

Your outdated evidence is that people look different and people behave differently, and so that is reason enough to place them into genetically separate groups or races.

This is balderdash.

People ... all people ... can very quickly look different depending on environmental factors (food, sun etc). That is a capacity that ALL Humans possess equally and cannot be used to distinguish people into genetically distinguishable groups or races. That is an inherent similarity that makes us all Human ... it does not distinguish us from each other.

We all have many silent genes that are switched on or off over time, as well as an equal capacity to mutate, and it is this expression of genes we all possess (which on the whole are indistinguishable) which determine what we look like ... and probably how we behave. But they are changeable, mutable but equally so in ALL Humans. Even so, single-base changes can lead to amazing phenotype effects (what you see as outward appearance), yet that is not a significant genetic differences to place Humans into different races.

You can track migrations using individual genes. But individual genes do not separate people into different races (individuals are more significantly different to each other than groups are genetically) otherwise a black African mother having a black African son who has inherited a gene for sickle cell anaemia should place her child into a different race according to the thinking of the people you follow.

A child with a whole chromosome difference (e.g. Downs syndrome) by the logic of those people who set up those sites or who still harp on about genetic races .... should be placed in a different race because he has such a huge DNA difference .... yet that is clearly balderdash as the child is clearly genetically related to the parents yet merely has a "mutation".

Yes we all have mutations, different to our parents. Yes we are only half like our mothers and only half like our fathers ... those are "big" genetic differences ... but cannot be considered as giving rise to different races.

Yet DNA homology studies between a group of Swedes and a group of Aborigines will show you how similar the DNA is ... between groups! Yet between individuals you can detect the difference (hence forensic DNA fingerprinting ... you can distinguish between individuals). But each individual is not a "race" ... but instead, an individual singularly important human.

Then you go on to say Africans form (broadly) one race, Europeans form (broadly) another race; and when they have "half-breed" children they from a separate new race entirely ... What crap! In that case there is so much in the way of half-breeds and quarter-breeds walking around, that the whole world is full of millions of permutations and combinations of so many different races that the whole concept proves itself unbelievably preposterous for the ridiculous assumptions it is based upon.
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Postby yialousa1971 » Sat Nov 15, 2008 10:15 pm

Oracle wrote:Yialousa, but we are attacking this from two precisely contrasting viewpoints! Yours is outdated and does not take into account recent DNA evidence and scientific analysis of the significance of any statistical differences or absences.

Your outdated evidence is that people look different and people behave differently, and so that is reason enough to place them into genetically separate groups or races.

This is balderdash.



The Anthropological data is not outdated but has mainly been proven to be correct by the latest Genetic studies. The Genes for Cauccasian, Mongolians and Sub-Saharan Africans have all been sequenced and there are various companys that perform Racial Ancestry tests such as DNAPrint® Genomics.

As for eye/hair/skin colour, they are not factors in determining racial types but hair/skin types and bone structure are.
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