Cyprus-Forum.com

[Bananiot]

This is not a game DT. You do not go for it and then see what happens. This is not how international affairs are run. Wrong moves are paid dearly. We have made such mistakes in the past. Look at the infamous 13 points of Makarios in the early 60's.

[Oracle]

No Bananiot .... look at how inadequate the 1960 constitution was, as anything more than a vehicle towards Democratic self-determination.

At some point or other someone, somehow, would have had to bring it up to scratch!

[Piratis]

Really DT, do you think I would reject a unitary state even if the possibility of achieving it is remote?

This is not the point. The point is that VP and the partitionists like you, not because you are a nice person or anything else, but because you accept their demands and would not ask for anything more. Start asking for a unitary state and our human rights, and then we will see how much they will like you.

Piratis makes a point that we are willing to sign away land to Turkey, gets himself to believe it and starts firing on all pistons like a man poccessed.

What you are willing to do is to accept that the north part of our country is Turkish. Today the Turks keep the north part of Cyprus illegally and what we have is a de facto partition. If we accept and sign that the north Cyprus belongs to the Turks then what we will have is a de jure partition, with two separate states, one "Greek Cyprus" and one "Turkish Cyprus" in a loose association with each another.

Even worst, this loose association will be for the benefit of the Turks. They will be able to use the TC minority and their settlers with their vetos and 50% power to control the foreign policy of Cyprus - practically silencing Cyprus to any matter that Turkey wants to silence us, while the TCs will be getting richer on the expense of the GC taxpayers.

He also has these wild theories that Turkey is likely to disintegrate or find itself on the losing side of a major or regional war

I didn't say it is "likely", I said it is possible. Things like that happened many times in history. How do you think the Greek Republic was created? Or in more recent times how do you think that tiny states like Latvia (with 30% Russian population) managed to gain independence from a nuclear superpower which is 100 times more powerful than Turkey? Of course such things to happen take time, and what we need to do is act in such a way (e.g. keep our sovereignty rights over the whole island) in order to maximize the possibility.

and in case non of his disaster for Turkey scenarios materialise, then he believes we would be protected by the EU.

While you believe what? That if we don't agree to some Annan partition plan soon, Turkey with no excuse will invade Cyprus again, especially now we are an EU member? That is what you believe?

I propose something more realistic. Work hard with the Turkish Cypriots and find a solution we can all live with. It wont be the best but given time, of trusting and depending on each other, we could learn to live together in piece and then we can reconsider many of the derogations that bother us today.

Trust is the key word. Fraternity and solidarity. That is the only way to go about it. There is no other way. Any other path will spell the end of our country.

You call that realistic? Can you give me another example in history, where an ethnic group voluntarily gave up rights and land that have been given to it?

Furthermore trust, friendship, solidarity etc, in order to exist they should be mutual, and they can be created only by following the universal principles of democracy and human rights.
One surrendering his rights and land to another in order to please him is not called "friendship", and that is not the kind of "friends" that I want. My friends are those that I respect and they also respect me, not the ones that blackmail me and take away my human rights and my land.

Work hard with the Turkish Cypriots and find a solution we can all live with.

And what does "live with" mean? Survive? Well, we survive now as well, and we also survived 300+ years of brutal Ottoman rule.

The aim is not just to "live". The aim of a solution is to actually solve our problems, without creating new ones, so we can live much better. And what are our problems? Aren't they the occupation of our lands by the Turks and the violation of our human rights? Therefore a solution should solve these problems and give us back our rights and our lands. Otherwise what kind of "solution" is it??

Abolishing democracy and legalizing the violation of human rights and the stealing of our lands is actually making our standard of living worst not better, and that is before counting the impact that such an unfair "solution" can have on the financials of Greek Cypriots.

So don't give me a "solution" that I can "live with". Give me a solution that will solve our problems and give as a better life. If you can't do that, then better be silent instead of proposing to us "solutions" disasters which will make our problems more and worst instead of solving them.

Ask your TC friends. Then you will see that not only they will only accept a solution that actually solves every single of their problems to the 100%, but they want to have further gains on our loss on top of it. Why don't they accept something that they can just "live with"? I wonder if we were proposing a a solution to them that would not include the 100% removal of the "embargoes" against them if they would accept it. You think there is even a chance in a billion that they would?

[Bananiot]

But Piratis, by what right do you call for a unitary state? Your President is in the thick of negotiations for BBF and by calling for a unitary state you are undermining the democratically elected President of Cyprus. Does this not bother you? Do you remember when you were telling me not to criticise the democratically elected President? What's wrong with you now? A touch of double standards perhaps? I sthis the way you understand democracy?

[Bananiot]

The 1960 constitution was bloody good under the circumstances. The fact that we started shooting it immediately afterwards does not make it bad. Even Papadopoulos called it a blessing in desguise, with the benefit of hindsight of course.

[Oracle]

The 1960 constitution was bloody good under the circumstances. The fact that we started shooting it immediately afterwards does not make it bad. Even Papadopoulos called it a blessing in desguise, with the benefit of hindsight of course.

There's no point quoting out of context, and I am now well acquainted with how much you distort peoples' comments.

Of course the 1960 Constitution was a blessing, and bloody good under the circumstances .... It enabled us to remove some of the enslavement we suffered under British colonialism ... and it is why Makarios signed it in the first place! ... it was better than the alternative of continued oppression from the Brits (with underlying increasing disturbances/incursions from Turkey and its TMT etc).

But that does not mean it was perfect and appropriate for long term development; and that was what long-sighted, forward-thinking, visionary Makarios tried to establish.

[Bananiot]

It is a waste of time, I am sorry to say, talking to you. You have no idea whatsoever how this world is run.

[Get Real!]

It is a waste of time, I am sorry to say, talking to you. You have no idea whatsoever how this world is run.

The western world runs under what is referred to as “democracy” which involves a one-man-one-vote electoral system but unfortunately, and despite your admiration for the west, that does not seem to be what you’re campaigning for to prevail in Cyprus.

[bill cobbett]

An, at best, 18% minority is just that, an, at best 18% minority! Whilst they have every human right to have their human rights respected, the majority 82% should not feel they have to bend over backwards to accommodate their and their motherland's every demand for an autonomy that is partition in all but name.


bill c. .....sociopath

[Piratis]

But Piratis, by what right do you call for a unitary state? Your President is in the thick of negotiations for BBF and by calling for a unitary state you are undermining the democratically elected President of Cyprus. Does this not bother you? Do you remember when you were telling me not to criticise the democratically elected President? What's wrong with you now? A touch of double standards perhaps? I sthis the way you understand democracy?

Mate, nobody ever said that we want a BBF except maybe you. Everybody admits that BBF is nothing more than a compromise we made after been blackmailed and forced by your Turkish "friends".

Furthermore I didn't reject a BBF. What I reject, like the vast majority of Cypriots, including Christofias, is the Annan plan kind of "BBF".

A BBF with the right land distribution, and the right power sharing would be acceptable by me. A BBF which gives most of the land to us (we have never agreed on any land distribution), and where Turkey has no say in our internal affairs, and where the central government has most power and it is elected directly by the majority of people, would be a compromise, but it would be acceptable.