Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

I think we have seen who the racists are on this forum VP.

You want Turkey to rule you that si fine we don't and we are no about to let them have our country. Like you said wait 1000 to get what Turkey wants. in the meantime there wont be a TC left.

If the sample of GCs on this forum are anything to go by its the other 80% im worried about, given this power who knows what they will do.

Its our country to and we have rights that why no one has rushed to your aide to kick the bad Turks out. Who we build a future with is our business, the results have been far better over the past 34 years than the previous 11 with GCs.

[Nikitas]

VP said:

"When the electorate will be made up of 80% biased and racist voters who would rather vote in a GC monkey than see a TC president you ask for measures that will act as a life line."

VP you are confusing two separate things I think. One is the guarantees to the TC community that their rights will not be violated by the majority GCs.

The ethnic origin of the president is a separate issue.

What Repulsewarrior and I have said, now and in the past, is that in a true democracy the highest elected office should be open to ALL citizens. This assumes that all citizens vote for the president.

Now as to the practical approach, whether the GCs would vote for a TC, that is something that will develop over years as confidence builds up. Right now there are several TCs who I would vote for over a GC. Sener Levent is one of them.

There are alternatives to the proposal, like obliging president and vice president to run on a joint ticket, as happens in the USA. Or guarantee that the if the president is of one community then he must choose a vice president of the other community. Or the whole population votes for the president, and TCs only vote for the vice president, which gives the 20 per cent the status of power maker in the election without jeopardising their vice president privilege. The variations are many but they differ from what has been proposed so far in the way they integrate the two communities politiclly.

Again, you did not discuss the principle or the details but launched headlong into a presumption that GCs regard TCs as inferior. In a way so do you, since you regard a TC as unlikely to ever have the talent, personality and determination to convince the majority of GCs (despite their resistance) and TCs to vote for him or her.

[humanist]

no one on this forum is saying this is not your country infact many learnered GC's are saying all of it is yours and you can play a part in it, if you wish. However, your are choosing the illegal ilegitimate violating way to go about things. Claiming part of the Island that belongs to all Cypriots as yours and excluding the legitimate owners from it..

your argument is therefore null void and pathetic.

Furthemore, you are creating your own extinction and your big headed attitude does not allow you to see it.

I have said it before ..... it really saddens me that the contributions TC's have plaayed in developing the Cyprus that i grew up as a child are getting lost among the Turkish cuture that has taken off like a rocket in the occupied territory of our country.

[Viewpoint]

Nikitas

VP you are confusing two separate things I think. One is the guarantees to the TC community that their rights will not be violated by the majority GCs.

What safeguards do you suggest so as not to leave things to chance?

The ethnic origin of the president is a separate issue.

What Repulsewarrior and I have said, now and in the past, is that in a true democracy the highest elected office should be open to ALL citizens. This assumes that all citizens vote for the president.

When the majority are GCs and represent a biased towards only GCs then you have a problem as the smaller community will never have any opportunity to be elected in. Knowing this fact safeguards are a must to ensure that TCs are not pushed to one side becuase they happen to be less in numbers.

Now as to the practical approach, whether the GCs would vote for a TC, that is something that will develop over years as confidence builds up. Right now there are several TCs who I would vote for over a GC. Sener Levent is one of them.

Do you want us to leave it to chance and hope that it develops over time, if it develops at all there are no guarantees. You would vote for Sener becuase he says what you want to hear, we have yet to discover anyone in the GC community of the same calibre.

There are alternatives to the proposal, like obliging president and vice president to run on a joint ticket, as happens in the USA. Or guarantee that the if the president is of one community then he must choose a vice president of the other community. Or the whole population votes for the president, and TCs only vote for the vice president, which gives the 20 per cent the status of power maker in the election without jeopardising their vice president privilege. The variations are many but they differ from what has been proposed so far in the way they integrate the two communities politiclly.

Thats why we are looking for the best solution that will address both sides concerns.

Again, you did not discuss the principle or the details but launched headlong into a presumption that GCs regard TCs as inferior. In a way so do you, since you regard a TC as unlikely to ever have the talent, personality and determination to convince the majority of GCs (despite their resistance) and TCs to vote for him or her.

Wrong its not that I do not trust TCs will have the ability to lead, its the mistrust that GCs will have the political maturity to vote in the best man for the job as they would rather see a GC monkey than vote in a TC to lead them.

[EPSILON]

Wrong its not that I do not trust TCs will have the ability to lead, its the mistrust that GCs will have the political maturity to vote in the best man for the job as they would rather see a GC monkey than vote in a TC to lead them.




You are absolutely right. History proved that a G/c monkey can be more independent from mother lands instructions than a T/c politician

[EPSILON]

humi, "they" are a group of members on this forum who debate with you, ...and "they" are not all i may add...

write for the silent majority, write for Cyprus, never mind what are the replies, focus.

We are just 82 per cent of G/cs- you/he can insist on minorities rights

[Viewpoint]

humanist

no one on this forum is saying this is not your country infact many learnered GC's are saying all of it is yours and you can play a part in it, if you wish. However, your are choosing the illegal ilegitimate violating way to go about things. Claiming part of the Island that belongs to all Cypriots as yours and excluding the legitimate owners from it..

We were forced into this position by your own actions and we are still to this day uncertain of your ability to share this island equally. Thats why this problem has not been solved as the chasm is to wide to bridge, a plus for GCs is seen a negative for TCs and vice versa so the likelihood of compromising and meeting half way is very unlikely taking into the Cypriot mentality.

your argument is therefore null void and pathetic.

According to you, there are plenty of TCs who would agree with me.

Furthemore, you are creating your own extinction and your big headed attitude does not allow you to see it.

Thanks for your insincere concern but thats my issue, have you ever considered that your pig headed appraoch pushes us further and further into the arms of Turkey?

I have said it before ..... it really saddens me that the contributions TC's have plaayed in developing the Cyprus that i grew up as a child are getting lost among the Turkish cuture that has taken off like a rocket in the occupied territory of our country.

It will continue to sky rocket as long as you maintain a stance that does not allow a solution, never forget that TCs are Turkish in origin and in time they will abandon their frail Cypriotness for a more formal Turkish identity.

[EPSILON]

humanist

no one on this forum is saying this is not your country infact many learnered GC's are saying all of it is yours and you can play a part in it, if you wish. However, your are choosing the illegal ilegitimate violating way to go about things. Claiming part of the Island that belongs to all Cypriots as yours and excluding the legitimate owners from it..

We were forced into this position by your own actions and we are still to this day uncertain of your ability to share this island equally. Thats why this problem has not been solved as the chasm is to wide to bridge, a plus for GCs is seen a negative for TCs and vice versa so the likelihood of compromising and meeting half way is very unlikely taking into the Cypriot mentality.

your argument is therefore null void and pathetic.

According to you, there are plenty of TCs who would agree with me.

Furthemore, you are creating your own extinction and your big headed attitude does not allow you to see it.

Thanks for your insincere concern but thats my issue, have you ever considered that your pig headed appraoch pushes us further and further into the arms of Turkey?

I have said it before ..... it really saddens me that the contributions TC's have plaayed in developing the Cyprus that i grew up as a child are getting lost among the Turkish cuture that has taken off like a rocket in the occupied territory of our country.

It will continue to sky rocket as long as you maintain a stance that does not allow a solution, never forget that TCs are Turkish in origin and in time they will abandon their frail Cypriotness for a more formal Turkish identity.

Refering to your signature- partition is a situation which you got it by help of invated Turkish forces.Stack on it/. You are clever people as you were so long time before 1974. Thousand of years we (G/cs ) were under occupation of British (so you) but we were always , even under both of us u8nder occupation , 100 years onward than you.Same is today. Some (minority of majority) affected by a virous and speaking about -brothers-sisters and Cyprus nation!!!!

Do not forget Minorities are always minorities- they hv theor rights to speak - to live but they can not control a Democracy.

Here we are" the EPSILON" to establish the rights of MAJORITY.To both T/cs and "Neo Cypriots"

[Nikitas]

"What safeguards do you suggest so as not to leave things to chance? "

VP, all legal constructs, whether commercial companies, asociations or nations, if they are properly set up have ways to prevent abuse of a minority. Abuse in this case means depriving them of equal rights. That is how the 1960 arrangement went wrong, the rights granted to the minority were more than equal. Now we have an agreement on the political equality of the communities and equality of individual citizens, in principle and on which the talks are supposedly based.

I still think that excluding all others except GCs from aspring to the presidency is a mistake. The rotating presidency is no substitute by itself. Perhaps the best solution would be a joint ticket like in the USA, so people
are forced to cooperate politically from the start if they want to have a chance of succeeding in elections. If such a thing ever becomes a reality we will all be surprised at the alliances that will be formed.

[Viewpoint]

"What safeguards do you suggest so as not to leave things to chance? "

VP, all legal constructs, whether commercial companies, asociations or nations, if they are properly set up have ways to prevent abuse of a minority. Abuse in this case means depriving them of equal rights. That is how the 1960 arrangement went wrong, the rights granted to the minority were more than equal. Now we have an agreement on the political equality of the communities and equality of individual citizens, in principle and on which the talks are supposedly based.

I still think that excluding all others except GCs from aspring to the presidency is a mistake. The rotating presidency is no substitute by itself. Perhaps the best solution would be a joint ticket like in the USA, so people
are forced to cooperate politically from the start if they want to have a chance of succeeding in elections. If such a thing ever becomes a reality we will all be surprised at the alliances that will be formed.

So all you can put forward is that we have to trust the GCs as they are the majority and leave things to chance? Expose ourselves to our worst nightmare, dont think this approach will work as TCs will automatically vote this down.