"in our own country""?
You seem to have chosen another country to live in, there is nothing stopping you from coming to live here!
Warning To Travellers To The North
by zan » Sat Oct 04, 2008 10:30 am
CBBB wrote:"in our own country""?
You seem to have chosen another country to live in, there is nothing stopping you from coming to live here!
Not that old monkey........
There are several things stopping me coming home mate and I have stated them all......When the time allows then I will be back like a shot......You and your government forced me off my homeland in the 60's...You thought I was out of the equation......I am back in spirit and that spirit you will not beak....-
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by BOF » Sat Oct 04, 2008 5:17 pm
denizaksulu wrote:If the tourists were merely taking snapshots, their arrest is a joke. On google earth, The walled city of Famagusta is my most visited site. I love studying every nook and cranny of this historic town. If anyone wanted to spy, As Kafenes said, Google Earth is the place.
I also like to know the real motive of these arrests. Pure stupidity.
Lets wait and see what excuses they will come up with.
The North are number one for good PR. Not.
Well i seem to remember a couple of years back in Greece some aircraft enthusiasts being arrested and held in Jail for taking pictures of Aircraft at - an Airshow....
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repulsewarrior - Leading Contributor
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by Oracle » Sat Oct 04, 2008 7:42 pm
BOF wrote:denizaksulu wrote:If the tourists were merely taking snapshots, their arrest is a joke. On google earth, The walled city of Famagusta is my most visited site. I love studying every nook and cranny of this historic town. If anyone wanted to spy, As Kafenes said, Google Earth is the place.
I also like to know the real motive of these arrests. Pure stupidity.
Lets wait and see what excuses they will come up with.
The North are number one for good PR. Not.
Well i seem to remember a couple of years back in Greece some aircraft enthusiasts being arrested and held in Jail for taking pictures of Aircraft at - an Airshow....
They were taking photographs of military planes in a military installation and not during an airshow. The Kalamata incident was in the days before Google Earth and sensitive material was more visible, hence why they were advised beforehand not to take photographs.
The biggest difference was that they were given immediate legal representation ... but what have the Turks done with these two tourists? No one seems able to tell us.
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by Nikitas » Sat Oct 04, 2008 7:49 pm
Airsho my foot,
those were tactical interception flights scrambled at Kalamata airfield to meet Turkish planes on the usual daily incursions into Greek territory. The photos showed the armament carried by the planes, even the identities of the pilots who scrambled, reaction times, ground crew competence and all kinds of things that had nothing at all to do with plane spotting.
those were tactical interception flights scrambled at Kalamata airfield to meet Turkish planes on the usual daily incursions into Greek territory. The photos showed the armament carried by the planes, even the identities of the pilots who scrambled, reaction times, ground crew competence and all kinds of things that had nothing at all to do with plane spotting.
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by BOF » Sat Oct 04, 2008 8:59 pm
Nikitas wrote:Airsho my foot,
those were tactical interception flights scrambled at Kalamata airfield to meet Turkish planes on the usual daily incursions into Greek territory. The photos showed the armament carried by the planes, even the identities of the pilots who scrambled, reaction times, ground crew competence and all kinds of things that had nothing at all to do with plane spotting.
Wow you have access to some very sensitive info! so what were the type of fighters? and of course you are aware that the plane spotters were ENGLISH.
What intrigues me as a former professional photographer was how such information was obtainable from just a photograph?? i have a 300mm f2.8 nikon lens plus a 1x4 teleconverter and a couple of cameras that allow me five frames a second, (not average plane spotter kit) but ground crew competence?? reaction times? how did they do that?
I have walked the perimiter of a military airfield - come to think of it several military airfields and have never seen such things as you describe and if i had even my equipement wouldnt be good enough to capture such things...or do they park their planes next to the fence?
And having captured all this information what do you think they were going to do with it???? So rather than have a sattelite photograph the hairs on the pilot neck your fellow NATO members send a motley crew of anoraks to try and photograph them through the fence?
Sorry i must go i think i see someones nose growing.
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by BOF » Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:18 pm
Just found this.......
Thursday, 7 November, 2002, 11:59 GMT
Plane-spotters invited to airbase
A relieved Paul and Lesley Coppin in Greece
The Greek authorities have invited 11 British plane-spotters cleared of
spying to attend an air show at the military base where they were first
arrested.
It follows the decision by a Greek court to acquit the group, who had
appealed against their convictions for espionage and related lesser charges.
They are due to visit the show at the Kalamata airbase on Friday - a year
to the day since they were originally arrested.
The idea is that we go over there tomorrow and heal things up
Lesley Coppin
The show forms part of celebrations on Kalamata island in honour of the
saints, St Gabriel and St Michael.
Lesley Coppin, whose husband Paul organised the fateful plane-spotting tour
and then faced jail, said: "It shows something of a healing process.
Relief
"The idea is that we go over there tomorrow [Friday] and heal things up."
Several of the group - including Paul Coppin - had suggested visiting the
base on Friday as it is the annual Greek Airforce Open Day.
British consul officials intervened on their behalf and asked the airbase
for official permission for the group to return.
Stephen Jakobi, of Fair Trials Abroad, said: "They have all got an official
invitation to go to Kalamata tomorrow, arreston the one-year anniversary of their
s."
Many of the group were keen to revisit the airbase
Another of the plane-spotters, Antoni Adamiak, said he would prefer to
watch Chelsea football club playing on Saturday, rather than return to the
airbase.
He said: "It's a nightmare that is now over. I can't wait to get home to be
with my family."
Michael Bursell, of Swanland, near Hull, said the plane-spotters and their
families had been through "hell".
"I'm just so relieved that it's all over, it's been absolutely awful, I
couldn't go through it again."
It has been a difficult and unpleasant experience for the individuals
involved
David Madden, UK ambassador to Greece
The 11 were overcome with relief after their acquittal at the appeal
hearing in a courtroom in Kalamata, southern Greece, on Wednesday.
The UK ambassador for Greece, David Madden, said the judicial system
eventually came through for the plane-spotters.
'Worked hard'
"It produced an appeal hearing where the British defendants felt their case
was well presented and fairly judged," he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.
He said the government had worked hard to prevent the case damaging
relations between the UK and Greece.
"In fact it has not, even though it has been a difficult and unpleasant
experience for the individuals involved," he said.
All the group now have legal bills estimated at £25,000 to pay.
Click here for plane-spotters' details
The saga began last November, when the group were arrested and held in jail
for six weeks.
In April, six of the Britons and two Dutch men were found guilty of spying,
with six more convicted of aiding and abetting.
The sentencing came as a shock in April
All convictions were quashed on Wednesday, apart from that of Mick Keane -
who stayed at home on health grounds - because he did not attend the appeal.
Mr Madden said they were hopeful he his conviction would also be quashed.
Their lawyers convinced the court that most of the information they had
collected was widely available, and that their intentions were innocent.
Those originally found guilty of espionage were:
Paul Coppin, 45, of Mildenhall, Suffolk
Peter Norris, 52, of Uxbridge, west London
Antoni Adamiak, 37, of London
Andrew Jenkins, 32, from York
Graham Arnold, 38, from Ottershaw, Surrey
Gary Fagan, 30, from Kegworth, Leicestershire
Patrick Dirksen, 27, from Eindhoven, Netherlands
Frank Mink, 28, from Den Helder, Netherlands
Those originally found guilty of aiding and abetting were:
Lesley Coppin, 51, Mildenhall, Suffolk
Michael Bursell, 47, of Swanland, near Hull
Michael Keane, 57, of Dartford, Kent
Steven Rush, 38, from Caterham, Surrey
Christopher Wilson, 46, from Gatwick, West Sussex
Wayne Groves, 38, from Tamworth, Staffordshire
-------
Thursday, 7 November, 2002, 04:18 GMT
Plane-spotters cleared of spying
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/2412705.stm
Paul and Lesley Coppin celebrate the court's verdict
Eleven British plane-spotters convicted of spying in Greece have been
acquitted.
The group were arrested one year ago as they took notes at an air base open
day in Kalamata, southern Greece.
Hugs and tears of joy greeted the verdict, which was delivered via a
translator after an hour of deliberating by three judges.
In April, six of the Britons and two Dutch men were found guilty of spying
and given three-year jail sentences.
These were quashed in Wednesday's hearing.
The Rush family will go to Disneyland
Five other Britons, found guilty of aiding and abetting and given one-year
suspended sentences, are also free to come home.
But the twelfth plane-spotter Mick Keane, who stayed at home on health
grounds, is still convicted of aiding and abetting because he did not
attend the appeal.
Steve Rush, from Surrey, who also faced the lesser charge, was overjoyed
and spoke to BBC News Online immediately after the verdict.
He said: "If we hadn't got an acquittal this time, we would have fought
them all the way.
"We were 100% determined to overturn these verdicts and even had the
flights booked for another appeal."
Legal bill
Mr Rush said he would take his daughter Isla, three, on a long-promised
trip to Disneyland, USA, once he saved enough money.
Each of the plane-spotters has a legal bill of about £25,000.
Paul Coppin, who organised the tour and faced jail, told BBC News Online he
wanted to go to the annual air base open day on Friday, the anniversary of
their arrest.
He said: "Hopefully they will greet us with VIP treatment, for a change."
The plane-spotters say the information was not secret
Another of the plane-spotters, Antoni Adamiak, said he would prefer to see
Chelsea playing on Saturday, rather than returning to the air show.
He said: "It's a nightmare that is now over. I can't wait to get home to be
with my family."
Lesley Coppin hugged her husband Paul as the verdict was announced.
"It's been a long time in coming and it's more than welcome," she said,
"Greece is a beautiful country but there do need to be some changes made."
Perdita Norris, wife of Peter Norris was in tears. "My heart is still
beating. I didn't expect this until the very last minute."
Not understood
The defence team finished its case on Wednesday by arguing the Britons and
two Dutch men were innocently doing a hobby unknown in Greece.
Summing up on the second day of the appeal hearing at a court near the
scene of the arrests, Nikos Salavrakos said plane-spotting was not
understood.
He said: "We are lucky in Greece, we do not have this as a hobby. Here we
have the sun."
Another defence lawyer, Yannis Nikiteas, said the officers at the airbase
were honourable men who made an honest mistake.
Click here for plane-spotters' details
He said: "How can 14 people moving in daylight in buses be carrying out
espionage?"
Before the summing-up, the public prosecutor Nikos Panelis said five of the
Britons found guilty of aiding and abetting should be acquitted.
But he said the more serious convictions for espionage should be upheld
against six other Britons and two Dutch members of the group.
The prosecution admitted they were not spies in the classic "Ian Fleming"
sense.
But they argued the information obtained by the plane-spotters was
classified information which could have harmed national security.
[/b]
Thursday, 7 November, 2002, 11:59 GMT
Plane-spotters invited to airbase
A relieved Paul and Lesley Coppin in Greece
The Greek authorities have invited 11 British plane-spotters cleared of
spying to attend an air show at the military base where they were first
arrested.
It follows the decision by a Greek court to acquit the group, who had
appealed against their convictions for espionage and related lesser charges.
They are due to visit the show at the Kalamata airbase on Friday - a year
to the day since they were originally arrested.
The idea is that we go over there tomorrow and heal things up
Lesley Coppin
The show forms part of celebrations on Kalamata island in honour of the
saints, St Gabriel and St Michael.
Lesley Coppin, whose husband Paul organised the fateful plane-spotting tour
and then faced jail, said: "It shows something of a healing process.
Relief
"The idea is that we go over there tomorrow [Friday] and heal things up."
Several of the group - including Paul Coppin - had suggested visiting the
base on Friday as it is the annual Greek Airforce Open Day.
British consul officials intervened on their behalf and asked the airbase
for official permission for the group to return.
Stephen Jakobi, of Fair Trials Abroad, said: "They have all got an official
invitation to go to Kalamata tomorrow, arreston the one-year anniversary of their
s."
Many of the group were keen to revisit the airbase
Another of the plane-spotters, Antoni Adamiak, said he would prefer to
watch Chelsea football club playing on Saturday, rather than return to the
airbase.
He said: "It's a nightmare that is now over. I can't wait to get home to be
with my family."
Michael Bursell, of Swanland, near Hull, said the plane-spotters and their
families had been through "hell".
"I'm just so relieved that it's all over, it's been absolutely awful, I
couldn't go through it again."
It has been a difficult and unpleasant experience for the individuals
involved
David Madden, UK ambassador to Greece
The 11 were overcome with relief after their acquittal at the appeal
hearing in a courtroom in Kalamata, southern Greece, on Wednesday.
The UK ambassador for Greece, David Madden, said the judicial system
eventually came through for the plane-spotters.
'Worked hard'
"It produced an appeal hearing where the British defendants felt their case
was well presented and fairly judged," he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.
He said the government had worked hard to prevent the case damaging
relations between the UK and Greece.
"In fact it has not, even though it has been a difficult and unpleasant
experience for the individuals involved," he said.
All the group now have legal bills estimated at £25,000 to pay.
Click here for plane-spotters' details
The saga began last November, when the group were arrested and held in jail
for six weeks.
In April, six of the Britons and two Dutch men were found guilty of spying,
with six more convicted of aiding and abetting.
The sentencing came as a shock in April
All convictions were quashed on Wednesday, apart from that of Mick Keane -
who stayed at home on health grounds - because he did not attend the appeal.
Mr Madden said they were hopeful he his conviction would also be quashed.
Their lawyers convinced the court that most of the information they had
collected was widely available, and that their intentions were innocent.
Those originally found guilty of espionage were:
Paul Coppin, 45, of Mildenhall, Suffolk
Peter Norris, 52, of Uxbridge, west London
Antoni Adamiak, 37, of London
Andrew Jenkins, 32, from York
Graham Arnold, 38, from Ottershaw, Surrey
Gary Fagan, 30, from Kegworth, Leicestershire
Patrick Dirksen, 27, from Eindhoven, Netherlands
Frank Mink, 28, from Den Helder, Netherlands
Those originally found guilty of aiding and abetting were:
Lesley Coppin, 51, Mildenhall, Suffolk
Michael Bursell, 47, of Swanland, near Hull
Michael Keane, 57, of Dartford, Kent
Steven Rush, 38, from Caterham, Surrey
Christopher Wilson, 46, from Gatwick, West Sussex
Wayne Groves, 38, from Tamworth, Staffordshire
-------
Thursday, 7 November, 2002, 04:18 GMT
Plane-spotters cleared of spying
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/2412705.stm
Paul and Lesley Coppin celebrate the court's verdict
Eleven British plane-spotters convicted of spying in Greece have been
acquitted.
The group were arrested one year ago as they took notes at an air base open
day in Kalamata, southern Greece.
Hugs and tears of joy greeted the verdict, which was delivered via a
translator after an hour of deliberating by three judges.
In April, six of the Britons and two Dutch men were found guilty of spying
and given three-year jail sentences.
These were quashed in Wednesday's hearing.
The Rush family will go to Disneyland
Five other Britons, found guilty of aiding and abetting and given one-year
suspended sentences, are also free to come home.
But the twelfth plane-spotter Mick Keane, who stayed at home on health
grounds, is still convicted of aiding and abetting because he did not
attend the appeal.
Steve Rush, from Surrey, who also faced the lesser charge, was overjoyed
and spoke to BBC News Online immediately after the verdict.
He said: "If we hadn't got an acquittal this time, we would have fought
them all the way.
"We were 100% determined to overturn these verdicts and even had the
flights booked for another appeal."
Legal bill
Mr Rush said he would take his daughter Isla, three, on a long-promised
trip to Disneyland, USA, once he saved enough money.
Each of the plane-spotters has a legal bill of about £25,000.
Paul Coppin, who organised the tour and faced jail, told BBC News Online he
wanted to go to the annual air base open day on Friday, the anniversary of
their arrest.
He said: "Hopefully they will greet us with VIP treatment, for a change."
The plane-spotters say the information was not secret
Another of the plane-spotters, Antoni Adamiak, said he would prefer to see
Chelsea playing on Saturday, rather than returning to the air show.
He said: "It's a nightmare that is now over. I can't wait to get home to be
with my family."
Lesley Coppin hugged her husband Paul as the verdict was announced.
"It's been a long time in coming and it's more than welcome," she said,
"Greece is a beautiful country but there do need to be some changes made."
Perdita Norris, wife of Peter Norris was in tears. "My heart is still
beating. I didn't expect this until the very last minute."
Not understood
The defence team finished its case on Wednesday by arguing the Britons and
two Dutch men were innocently doing a hobby unknown in Greece.
Summing up on the second day of the appeal hearing at a court near the
scene of the arrests, Nikos Salavrakos said plane-spotting was not
understood.
He said: "We are lucky in Greece, we do not have this as a hobby. Here we
have the sun."
Another defence lawyer, Yannis Nikiteas, said the officers at the airbase
were honourable men who made an honest mistake.
Click here for plane-spotters' details
He said: "How can 14 people moving in daylight in buses be carrying out
espionage?"
Before the summing-up, the public prosecutor Nikos Panelis said five of the
Britons found guilty of aiding and abetting should be acquitted.
But he said the more serious convictions for espionage should be upheld
against six other Britons and two Dutch members of the group.
The prosecution admitted they were not spies in the classic "Ian Fleming"
sense.
But they argued the information obtained by the plane-spotters was
classified information which could have harmed national security.
[/b]
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