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Forgotten Heroes ....

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Postby BirKibrisli » Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:24 am

Tim Drayton wrote:There was an article by the respected Turkish Cypriot researcher Ahmet An in the BKP's weekly newspaper <i>Birleşik Kıbrıs</i> (United Cyprus) dated 19 April of this year which presents an account of the murder of Mishaulis and Kavazoglu. An cites a book entitled <i>Nevzat ve Ben</i> (Nevzat and I) by Özker Yaşın published in 2004. The events as described by An were as follow:

- Mishaulis and Kavaoglu were killed by the TMT, even though the TMT's own radio station blamed the Greek Cypriot right
- This organisation set a trap for the two AKEL members
- Kavazoglu had earlier made contact with some left-wingers in the village of Louroujina and pursuaded them to distribute AKEL Turkish-language leaflets to people they trusted in the village
- One of the recipients of these leaflets went to the TMT command in the village and reported what was going on
- Two of the left-wingers who were distributing these leaflets were arrested and sentenced to death for treason
- The TMT leadership in Nicosia, realising that they could catch a much bigger fish, intervened and postponed their execution
- An important person from TMT headquarters came to the village to interview these left-wingers. They were offered a deal. Either face the firing squad for committing treason, or else assist in setting a trap for Kavazoglu, in which case they would not only be spared, but would also be resettled in the UK with enough money to start their own businesses. They accepted this offer, and the rest is history.

I am only conveying the story as it is told by Ahmet An. However, if it is true, then some important questions come to my mind. At a time when the whole of Cyprus was supposedly under the control of the RoC government, was it not a political error of the greatest magnitude to permit enclaves to appear in which the TMT could set up an alternative regime? Such that distributing leaflets for a legal political party in the RoC could be considered an act of treason. Is this not how the seeds were sown for the separatist regime that was created after 1974? If the Turkish Cypriots could have been brought back into the fold of mainstream political life at that time, then would the entity that calls itself the "TRNC" exist now?


Tim...It would have been very difficult to bring the TCs back into fold,not only because the TMT was actively opposing it,but also Makarios lacked the political will and military capability to do so... I believe he was under the impression that if he kept the political and economic pressure on the TCs they would simply leave Cyprus in droves,which was what was happening till SAMPSON came and spoiled it all...The only enclave which was really truly defendable by the TCs was the Nicosia enclave...Makarios or Grivas would have had the Mother of all Battles on their hands trying to extend his military control over that enclave...If I am not wrong TMT was better prepared and equiped than the GC Government forces for a few years after 1963...The battle of Kofunye-Aytotro was such an attempt to stop further enclaves,and ended in disaster for the ROC government...After that Makarios simply put his "ignore them,squeeze them, and they will go away" policy which largely succeeded,till the Colonels and the USA hatched other plans...
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Postby Oracle » Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:28 am

Tim Drayton wrote:There was an article by the respected Turkish Cypriot researcher Ahmet An in the BKP's weekly newspaper <i>Birleşik Kıbrıs</i> (United Cyprus) dated 19 April of this year which presents an account of the murder of Mishaulis and Kavazoglu. An cites a book entitled <i>Nevzat ve Ben</i> (Nevzat and I) by Özker Yaşın published in 2004. The events as described by An were as follow:

- Mishaulis and Kavaoglu were killed by the TMT, even though the TMT's own radio station blamed the Greek Cypriot right
- This organisation set a trap for the two AKEL members
- Kavazoglu had earlier made contact with some left-wingers in the village of Louroujina and pursuaded them to distribute AKEL Turkish-language leaflets to people they trusted in the village
- One of the recipients of these leaflets went to the TMT command in the village and reported what was going on
- Two of the left-wingers who were distributing these leaflets were arrested and sentenced to death for treason
- The TMT leadership in Nicosia, realising that they could catch a much bigger fish, intervened and postponed their execution
- An important person from TMT headquarters came to the village to interview these left-wingers. They were offered a deal. Either face the firing squad for committing treason, or else assist in setting a trap for Kavazoglu, in which case they would not only be spared, but would also be resettled in the UK with enough money to start their own businesses. They accepted this offer, and the rest is history.

I am only conveying the story as it is told by Ahmet An. However, if it is true, then some important questions come to my mind. At a time when the whole of Cyprus was supposedly under the control of the RoC government, was it not a political error of the greatest magnitude to permit enclaves to appear in which the TMT could set up an alternative regime? Such that distributing leaflets for a legal political party in the RoC could be considered an act of treason. Is this not how the seeds were sown for the separatist regime that was created after 1974? If the Turkish Cypriots could have been brought back into the fold of mainstream political life at that time, then would the entity that calls itself the "TRNC" exist now?


That just demonstrates the power of TMT at the time. But just because the TMT judged the two leaflet distributors as traitors, it would not have been so under the RoC. The TMT were just clearly using terror / torture tactics on those two to force them into complying with the betrayal.

I wonder which businesses they set up in the UK?
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Postby zan » Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:30 am

kafenes wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:
kafenes wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:
kafenes wrote:Thanks for the complement Bit. My grandfather taught me to make lekhmajuns, he was originaly from Zilifke and then Hadjen. I believe the name if this dish is Arabic 'Lehim-bi-ajin' but they make it differently all around the world. You and the princess are more then welcome to my house for dinner, so is anybody else who would like to come.
Enough hijacking Oracles thread with food even though my grandfather was really a hero to me.


You are most welcome,Kafenes. The Precious princess is already packing her bags...But I must warn you,don't let her size fool you,she eats like a horse... :) We will give you a week's notice to get ready... :D
Shall I bring my darbuka???? :) Or shall me be considerate to your neighbours like last time...???? :)


Look forward to seeing you both again. Please give me a few days notice to start the cooking. We can invite Oracle to play the darbuka this time. :)


But Oracle is not a real person...She is the figment of GR's imagination,is she not??????? I am getting really confused now... :? :?


Bir, Oracle is very much real. Having met her personally, I would describe her as a very cute, sweet and homely person. A true Cypriot. Just because some people here cannot accept the fact that a female can outsmart them, they have a go at her. You have to meet her in person to appreciate her sense of humor. Her hatred for the Turks can only be offensive to TCs who class themselves as Turks (and there are a few of them here).


Snap out if Kafenes....You should not have looked into her eyes..... :roll: :roll:

You read all that she writes on the Forum and I have read what she writes on the Internet and you tell me that she is only offensive to some TCs...Give it a break mate.....Just because someone comes and sees you and exhibits some kind of humanity does not mean they are not the vicious conniving person that they really are....You are too nice by far..... :roll: :roll: :roll: I hear that Hitler was a entertaining man as well.... :roll: :roll: :roll:
Last edited by zan on Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Bananiot » Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:31 am

Like arguing that the Sahara is a lush green plain ... damn it, these people were plotting for enosis even after they put their signature on the 1959 London-Zurich agreements. This is what gave credit to the TMT which either convinced TC's or terrorised them into submission, for the signals we were sending at the time really fuelled the nationalism of TMT. Kavazoglu was at loggerheads with AKEL during this period because he, quite rightly and like all progresive TC's, stood agaist the policy of AKEL for enosis and only enosis. AKEL only changed its tune in 1967 after the Kophinou events when Makarios opted (so he said) for the feasible.
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Postby BirKibrisli » Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:34 am

denizaksulu wrote:
kafenes wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:
kafenes wrote:Thanks for the complement Bit. My grandfather taught me to make lekhmajuns, he was originaly from Zilifke and then Hadjen. I believe the name if this dish is Arabic 'Lehim-bi-ajin' but they make it differently all around the world. You and the princess are more then welcome to my house for dinner, so is anybody else who would like to come.
Enough hijacking Oracles thread with food even though my grandfather was really a hero to me.


You are most welcome,Kafenes. The Precious princess is already packing her bags...But I must warn you,don't let her size fool you,she eats like a horse... :) We will give you a week's notice to get ready... :D
Shall I bring my darbuka???? :) Or shall me be considerate to your neighbours like last time...???? :)


Look forward to seeing you both again. Please give me a few days notice to start the cooking. We can invite Oracle to play the darbuka this time. :)



Kafenes, tell BK from me, I will not forgive him for messing my plans up the past summer. Now I am going to miss the Great Gathering. :twisted: :twisted:

Have a great time all of you including Oracle.


I am aware I will have to work extra hard to make it up to you,Deniz...
And extra hard I will work,that is a promise... :)
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Postby SSBubbles » Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:38 am

BirKibrisli wrote:
denizaksulu wrote:
kafenes wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:
kafenes wrote:Thanks for the complement Bit. My grandfather taught me to make lekhmajuns, he was originaly from Zilifke and then Hadjen. I believe the name if this dish is Arabic 'Lehim-bi-ajin' but they make it differently all around the world. You and the princess are more then welcome to my house for dinner, so is anybody else who would like to come.
Enough hijacking Oracles thread with food even though my grandfather was really a hero to me.


You are most welcome,Kafenes. The Precious princess is already packing her bags...But I must warn you,don't let her size fool you,she eats like a horse... :) We will give you a week's notice to get ready... :D
Shall I bring my darbuka???? :) Or shall me be considerate to your neighbours like last time...???? :)


Look forward to seeing you both again. Please give me a few days notice to start the cooking. We can invite Oracle to play the darbuka this time. :)



Kafenes, tell BK from me, I will not forgive him for messing my plans up the past summer. Now I am going to miss the Great Gathering. :twisted: :twisted:

Have a great time all of you including Oracle.


I am aware I will have to work extra hard to make it up to you,Deniz...
And extra hard I will work,that is a promise... :)


Never mind Pafos BK, we will just pop over to Australia; I for one could do with a return visit! :lol: :wink:
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Postby Oracle » Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:41 am

zan wrote:
kafenes wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:
kafenes wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:
kafenes wrote:Thanks for the complement Bit. My grandfather taught me to make lekhmajuns, he was originaly from Zilifke and then Hadjen. I believe the name if this dish is Arabic 'Lehim-bi-ajin' but they make it differently all around the world. You and the princess are more then welcome to my house for dinner, so is anybody else who would like to come.
Enough hijacking Oracles thread with food even though my grandfather was really a hero to me.


You are most welcome,Kafenes. The Precious princess is already packing her bags...But I must warn you,don't let her size fool you,she eats like a horse... :) We will give you a week's notice to get ready... :D
Shall I bring my darbuka???? :) Or shall me be considerate to your neighbours like last time...???? :)


Look forward to seeing you both again. Please give me a few days notice to start the cooking. We can invite Oracle to play the darbuka this time. :)


But Oracle is not a real person...She is the figment of GR's imagination,is she not??????? I am getting really confused now... :? :?


Bir, Oracle is very much real. Having met her personally, I would describe her as a very cute, sweet and homely person. A true Cypriot. Just because some people here cannot accept the fact that a female can outsmart them, they have a go at her. You have to meet her in person to appreciate her sense of humor. Her hatred for the Turks can only be offensive to TCs who class themselves as Turks (and there are a few of them here).


Snap out if Kafenes....You should not have looked into her eyes..... :roll: :roll:

You read all that she writes on the Forum and I have read what she writes on the Internet and you tell me that she is only offensive to some TCs...Give it a break mate.....Just because someone comes and sees you and exhibits some kind of humanity does not mean they are not the vicious conniving person hat they really are....You are too nice by far..... :roll: :roll: :roll: I hear that Hitler was a entertaining man as well.... :roll: :roll: :roll:


Zan please enlighten me as to where else I write on the Internet, apart from the few posts on non-political fora, whilst I was banned for two weeks from CF?

I was warned that someone with a Turkish IP address tried to register as me on a political forum but they were sussed and denied.

Please tell me, since you keep accusing me, where these Internet pro-Greek writings are that you have decided are my work?

No one else would credit you enough to bother with any of your spoutings, but you are becoming painfully repetitive, to add to your un-credible sources.
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Postby BirKibrisli » Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:45 am

Oracle wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:
Oracle wrote:Here is a reminder that Makarios and Grivas were viewed as Heroes .. not just by GCs ... and further proof that they were fighting the Brits for Freedom and not towards Enosis as TCs and Bananiot suggest ...


TIME wrote:Heroes at Odds

Monday, Oct. 05, 1959

In their stubborn four-year fight against Britain, Greek Cypriots had two respected chiefs. For military leadership they looked to daring, irascible George Grivas, the Greek army colonel who led their guerrilla bands. For political and spiritual guidance they relied on black-bearded Archbishop Makarios, head of Cyprus' Greek Orthodox Church and ethnarch of Cyprus' Greeks. Last week, with establishment of an independent Cypriot Republic only five months away, Cyprus' two heroes .....


I keep scratching my head at your one-eyed version of our history,Oracle...Yes EOKA was fighting for freedom but also for ENOSIS...If you can't accept this simple historical truth there is really no point in talking to you...Makarios was not a hero for 20% of Cypriots,and Grivas was not a hero either, to somewhat larger percentage of Cypriots...
We really need to find common heros for all Cypriots,and alas,they are very few... :(


I don't think they were fighting for Enosis in the latter half of the '50s Bir and that is an extract from TIME written in 1959, which indicates the battle was against the Brits and not a battle to join Greece.

It's obvious the idea of Enosis was so convenient it was used against them even when they focused on their main objective (removal of Britain).... and even now it's still being brought up by the Turk-TCs as a way by which to judge every call for our freedom. Such a convenient but inaccurate reason to keep us enslaved by Turkey now, I am surprised that people like you still bring it up so readily.


Oracle,you are very good at finding links about issues you want to press.
Try searching for Makarios' speeches troughout the 60s where he openly admits ENOSIS is still the major aim...I am not making this up.I would do it myself but I am not very good at searching the net,and it will take me ages,time I do not have...Please get urself educated on the 1963-74 period of our history....You would be very surprised what you might dig up...If you go about it honestly...Is that too much to ask???? :(
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Postby Oracle » Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:52 am

BirKibrisli wrote:
Oracle wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:
Oracle wrote:Here is a reminder that Makarios and Grivas were viewed as Heroes .. not just by GCs ... and further proof that they were fighting the Brits for Freedom and not towards Enosis as TCs and Bananiot suggest ...


TIME wrote:Heroes at Odds

Monday, Oct. 05, 1959

In their stubborn four-year fight against Britain, Greek Cypriots had two respected chiefs. For military leadership they looked to daring, irascible George Grivas, the Greek army colonel who led their guerrilla bands. For political and spiritual guidance they relied on black-bearded Archbishop Makarios, head of Cyprus' Greek Orthodox Church and ethnarch of Cyprus' Greeks. Last week, with establishment of an independent Cypriot Republic only five months away, Cyprus' two heroes .....


I keep scratching my head at your one-eyed version of our history,Oracle...Yes EOKA was fighting for freedom but also for ENOSIS...If you can't accept this simple historical truth there is really no point in talking to you...Makarios was not a hero for 20% of Cypriots,and Grivas was not a hero either, to somewhat larger percentage of Cypriots...
We really need to find common heros for all Cypriots,and alas,they are very few... :(


I don't think they were fighting for Enosis in the latter half of the '50s Bir and that is an extract from TIME written in 1959, which indicates the battle was against the Brits and not a battle to join Greece.

It's obvious the idea of Enosis was so convenient it was used against them even when they focused on their main objective (removal of Britain).... and even now it's still being brought up by the Turk-TCs as a way by which to judge every call for our freedom. Such a convenient but inaccurate reason to keep us enslaved by Turkey now, I am surprised that people like you still bring it up so readily.


Oracle,you are very good at finding links about issues you want to press.
Try searching for Makarios' speeches troughout the 60s where he openly admits ENOSIS is still the major aim...I am not making this up.I would do it myself but I am not very good at searching the net,and it will take me ages,time I do not have...Please get urself educated on the 1963-74 period of our history....You would be very surprised what you might dig up...If you go about it honestly...Is that too much to ask???? :(


I am very interested in that period of history. But I don't actually have that much time for Internet searches as I am juggling other more pressing matters. I don't set much score by most Internet specific articles, which is why trustworthy News article archives matter more.
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Postby BirKibrisli » Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:56 am

SSBubbles wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:
denizaksulu wrote:
kafenes wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:
kafenes wrote:Thanks for the complement Bit. My grandfather taught me to make lekhmajuns, he was originaly from Zilifke and then Hadjen. I believe the name if this dish is Arabic 'Lehim-bi-ajin' but they make it differently all around the world. You and the princess are more then welcome to my house for dinner, so is anybody else who would like to come.
Enough hijacking Oracles thread with food even though my grandfather was really a hero to me.


You are most welcome,Kafenes. The Precious princess is already packing her bags...But I must warn you,don't let her size fool you,she eats like a horse... :) We will give you a week's notice to get ready... :D
Shall I bring my darbuka???? :) Or shall me be considerate to your neighbours like last time...???? :)


Look forward to seeing you both again. Please give me a few days notice to start the cooking. We can invite Oracle to play the darbuka this time. :)



Kafenes, tell BK from me, I will not forgive him for messing my plans up the past summer. Now I am going to miss the Great Gathering. :twisted: :twisted:

Have a great time all of you including Oracle.


I am aware I will have to work extra hard to make it up to you,Deniz...
And extra hard I will work,that is a promise... :)


Never mind Pafos BK, we will just pop over to Australia; I for one could do with a return visit! :lol: :wink:


You are most welcome,SSbubbles...Make sure you bring Deniz and Ann with you...I havent met them yet but we are practically cousins... :D
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