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Forgotten Heroes ....

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Postby repulsewarrior » Tue Sep 30, 2008 5:43 am

BirKibrisli wrote:
Piratis wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:
Piratis wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:Are we talking about the proclamation of the Republic of Turkey in 1923, or the name Turkey for Asia Minor that was first coined in the Middle Ages by Europeans? These are totally unrelated questions.


Tim, I am talking about the official name of the country which was declared without the approval of the minorities.

In general I don't disagree with what you say but it is a different subject. Did you know that the mother tongue of many of the "Turkish" Cypriots was Greek? Some of them didn't even speak Turkish. Basically they took all the Muslims of Cyprus, and they declared them as being Turkish. Then the TMT and Turkey forced all of those people to change language to Turkish and to bring their children up with Turkish as their language.


It seems to me that it is not the name of the country that is important. I mean, if instead of the Republic of Turkey, the country had taken the name Republic of Asia Minor - or Republic of Anatolia (if I dare face your wrath for using what is actually a Greek name) - but apart from that had followed exactly the same policies, then what would have changed? What you are criticising, I think, is the way this state in various ways and at various times has oppressed non-Turkish ethnic groups within the country. As Shakespeare said, a rose would smell the same by any other name.


My point Tim is that Asia Minor has 80% Turks, just like Cyprus has 80% Greeks, only that our history in Cyprus is far longer than the history that the Turks have in Asia Minor. And yet some people object to the fact that Cyprus is Greek and that the Cypriot people had every right to be in a united free state along with the rest of Greeks, while the same people do not object that Asia Minor is Turkish.

If some minority of 18-20% should have the right to determine the destiny of a territory against the will of the vast majority, then this should be a right of all minorities, including the Greek minority of Asia Minor, not just of the TCs.

A minority should have its human and minoritiy rights 100% protected, but should not have the right to impose anything beyond that against the will of the majority. Do you disagree with this general rule that should apply everywhere without any double standards?

And here I am talking about minorities, not about separate nations with their own separate territories that are under occupation, like it is the case of Kurdistan, Tibet and some other cases. These nations should be allowed to be independent in their own territories.


This is truly disappointing,Piratis...It is totally denying that part of our history which followed 1571...It also denies the existence of the other minorities like the Armenians,Maronites,Jews,Romans and what have you...What you are advocating is the Tyranny of the Majority,knowing well this is the main practical reason we are where we are today...

It is this failure to overcome our irrational obsession with our ethnicity which continues to be the biggest obstacle to a peaceful and lasting solution...I cannot believe that you are doing this...You know well,at least as well as I know,that the final solution to our problem lies in putting our ethnic origins behind us and fostering our Cypriotness,in an inclusive, all embracing nation of Cypriots...It is bewildering that this corrossive virus which is nationalism and the cause of so much anguish to our people still lives on in the hearts and minds of intelligent and sensible people... :( :(


thank-you, dr.

and i refer us to the idea that a strong State, has a countervaling power, that it derives from the communities of distinction. it is composed of. Bizonal because there is this State which is Sovereign, and there are National Compositions in Assembly toward serving themselves within their Jurisdiction, Bicommunal by governance as well.
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Postby Oracle » Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:05 pm

BirKibrisli wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:
Three or four vignettes of my Cyprus days stand out sharply in my memory. A massacre took place in Limassol on the south coast in which, us I recall, about fifty Turkish Cypriotes were killedCin some cases by bulldozers crushing their flimsy houses. As Makarios and I walked out of the meeting together on the second day, I said to him sharply that such beastly actions had to stop, that the previous night's affair was intolerable, and that he must halt the violence. With amused tolerance, lie replied, "But, Mr. Secretary, the Greeks and Turks have lived together for two thousand years on this island and there have always been occasional incidents; we are quite used to this." I was furious at such a bland reply. "Your Beatitude," I said, "I've been trying for the last two days to make the simple point that this is not the Middle Ages but the latter part of the twentieth century. The world's not going to stand idly by and let you turn this beautiful little island into your private abattoir." Instead of the outburst I had expected, he said quietly, with a sad smile, "Oh, you're a hard man, Mr. Secretary, a very hard man!"



Oracle,you might like to have a look at this link. It is taken from the memoirs of George Ball...He was sent to Cyprus in 1964 to deal with the conflict for President Johnson...Just something to wet your appetite while I look further for those speeches from the 60s....

But tell me up front ,if, like GR,you are not going to believe what was reported in the newspapers at the time,so I don't bother with it....

If you only believe in those links that supposrt your idea of the truth,then we might as well call it a night (here in Down Under)... :wink:

http://www.cyprus-conflict.net/www.cyprus-conflict.net/Ball%20-%2064.html


Have you had the time to consider this link,Oracle???


Why should I accept this view from an American "politician" as any more credible than what I and my family experienced at the same time. His views were those of an outsider intent on justifying intervention for his country.

He stated Makarios wanted the guarantor powers removed ... that was so significant and showed foresight as far as I am concerned! But it was ignored. :?

He stated Turkey wanted division of the Island ... yet this was swept under the carpet. But so true! :?

There is blanket denigration of Makarios with no reasons given as to why, and this is the first time I have heard anything bad said about Makarios, without evidence. No reasons were given so it remains at odds with established feelings about encounters with Makarios.

Frankly I gave up with this because it is presented as the view of some outsider visiting Cyprus without wit nor intellect ... and not FACT.

Bir if you are going to form your opinions on what some "inspector" has assessed for the good of his vested country ... you are a lost cause as far as the real future of Cyprus is concerned.
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Postby Oracle » Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:27 pm

denizaksulu wrote:
Piratis wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:Are we talking about the proclamation of the Republic of Turkey in 1923, or the name Turkey for Asia Minor that was first coined in the Middle Ages by Europeans? These are totally unrelated questions.


Tim, I am talking about the official name of the country which was declared without the approval of the minorities.

In general I don't disagree with what you say but it is a different subject. Did you know that the mother tongue of many of the "Turkish" Cypriots was Greek? Some of them didn't even speak Turkish. Basically they took all the Muslims of Cyprus, and they declared them as being Turkish. Then the TMT and Turkey forced all of those people to change language to Turkish and to bring their children up with Turkish as their language.



Pray, tell me who are 'they'?

What is this 'history re-visited'? Another GR'ish attempt at wiping out the Turkishness of Turkish Cypriots. Give it a rest. Most of us accept that there were conversions. The way you go on you would like the world to believe that no 'Turks@ came to Cyprus from Anatolia at all. Its time you grew up Piratis. :roll:


You and your maps ... :roll:


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Postby BirKibrisli » Wed Oct 01, 2008 4:42 am

Oracle wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:
Three or four vignettes of my Cyprus days stand out sharply in my memory. A massacre took place in Limassol on the south coast in which, us I recall, about fifty Turkish Cypriotes were killedCin some cases by bulldozers crushing their flimsy houses. As Makarios and I walked out of the meeting together on the second day, I said to him sharply that such beastly actions had to stop, that the previous night's affair was intolerable, and that he must halt the violence. With amused tolerance, lie replied, "But, Mr. Secretary, the Greeks and Turks have lived together for two thousand years on this island and there have always been occasional incidents; we are quite used to this." I was furious at such a bland reply. "Your Beatitude," I said, "I've been trying for the last two days to make the simple point that this is not the Middle Ages but the latter part of the twentieth century. The world's not going to stand idly by and let you turn this beautiful little island into your private abattoir." Instead of the outburst I had expected, he said quietly, with a sad smile, "Oh, you're a hard man, Mr. Secretary, a very hard man!"



Oracle,you might like to have a look at this link. It is taken from the memoirs of George Ball...He was sent to Cyprus in 1964 to deal with the conflict for President Johnson...Just something to wet your appetite while I look further for those speeches from the 60s....

But tell me up front ,if, like GR,you are not going to believe what was reported in the newspapers at the time,so I don't bother with it....

If you only believe in those links that supposrt your idea of the truth,then we might as well call it a night (here in Down Under)... :wink:

http://www.cyprus-conflict.net/www.cyprus-conflict.net/Ball%20-%2064.html


Have you had the time to consider this link,Oracle???


Why should I accept this view from an American "politician" as any more credible than what I and my family experienced at the same time. His views were those of an outsider intent on justifying intervention for his country.

He stated Makarios wanted the guarantor powers removed ... that was so significant and showed foresight as far as I am concerned! But it was ignored. :?

He stated Turkey wanted division of the Island ... yet this was swept under the carpet. But so true! :?

There is blanket denigration of Makarios with no reasons given as to why, and this is the first time I have heard anything bad said about Makarios, without evidence. No reasons were given so it remains at odds with established feelings about encounters with Makarios.

Frankly I gave up with this because it is presented as the view of some outsider visiting Cyprus without wit nor intellect ... and not FACT.

Bir if you are going to form your opinions on what some "inspector" has assessed for the good of his vested country ... you are a lost cause as far as the real future of Cyprus is concerned.


It seems you are happy to accept as objective truth what you and your family experienced,but deny others the same validity...I and my family experienced many things in the 50s and 60s. Including the Enosis demands,the EOKA struggle,the TMT and its demands for Taksim,the devious British political trickery,self-interested manouvers of the USA,Turkey,Greece,the Soviets etc...Nothing in history happens in a vacuum,there is always cause and effect(s),and often the real nature of the causes obscured skillfully by propagandists...Yet you insist that the only guilty party in Cyprus are the "Turks-TCs" as you put it..

You insisted that Makarios had moved on from Enosis on the founding of the Republic...I found you an admission and Confession from the man Himself that you were wrong...But that seems to have done nothing to make you think about the complexity of the Problem. I might indeed be
" a lost cause" as far as the Future of Cyprus is concerned,but your one-eyed,dogmatic and fanatical belief in you own rightfulness will do more damage to the future of Cyprus than a "lost cause".. :( :(
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Postby zan » Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:45 am

BirKibrisli wrote:
Oracle wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:
Three or four vignettes of my Cyprus days stand out sharply in my memory. A massacre took place in Limassol on the south coast in which, us I recall, about fifty Turkish Cypriotes were killedCin some cases by bulldozers crushing their flimsy houses. As Makarios and I walked out of the meeting together on the second day, I said to him sharply that such beastly actions had to stop, that the previous night's affair was intolerable, and that he must halt the violence. With amused tolerance, lie replied, "But, Mr. Secretary, the Greeks and Turks have lived together for two thousand years on this island and there have always been occasional incidents; we are quite used to this." I was furious at such a bland reply. "Your Beatitude," I said, "I've been trying for the last two days to make the simple point that this is not the Middle Ages but the latter part of the twentieth century. The world's not going to stand idly by and let you turn this beautiful little island into your private abattoir." Instead of the outburst I had expected, he said quietly, with a sad smile, "Oh, you're a hard man, Mr. Secretary, a very hard man!"



Oracle,you might like to have a look at this link. It is taken from the memoirs of George Ball...He was sent to Cyprus in 1964 to deal with the conflict for President Johnson...Just something to wet your appetite while I look further for those speeches from the 60s....

But tell me up front ,if, like GR,you are not going to believe what was reported in the newspapers at the time,so I don't bother with it....

If you only believe in those links that supposrt your idea of the truth,then we might as well call it a night (here in Down Under)... :wink:

http://www.cyprus-conflict.net/www.cyprus-conflict.net/Ball%20-%2064.html


Have you had the time to consider this link,Oracle???


Why should I accept this view from an American "politician" as any more credible than what I and my family experienced at the same time. His views were those of an outsider intent on justifying intervention for his country.

He stated Makarios wanted the guarantor powers removed ... that was so significant and showed foresight as far as I am concerned! But it was ignored. :?

He stated Turkey wanted division of the Island ... yet this was swept under the carpet. But so true! :?

There is blanket denigration of Makarios with no reasons given as to why, and this is the first time I have heard anything bad said about Makarios, without evidence. No reasons were given so it remains at odds with established feelings about encounters with Makarios.

Frankly I gave up with this because it is presented as the view of some outsider visiting Cyprus without wit nor intellect ... and not FACT.

Bir if you are going to form your opinions on what some "inspector" has assessed for the good of his vested country ... you are a lost cause as far as the real future of Cyprus is concerned.


It seems you are happy to accept as objective truth what you and your family experienced,but deny others the same validity...I and my family experienced many things in the 50s and 60s. Including the Enosis demands,the EOKA struggle,the TMT and its demands for Taksim,the devious British political trickery,self-interested manouvers of the USA,Turkey,Greece,the Soviets etc...Nothing in history happens in a vacuum,there is always cause and effect(s),and often the real nature of the causes obscured skillfully by propagandists...Yet you insist that the only guilty party in Cyprus are the "Turks-TCs" as you put it..

You insisted that Makarios had moved on from Enosis on the founding of the Republic...I found you an admission and Confession from the man Himself that you were wrong...But that seems to have done nothing to make you think about the complexity of the Problem. I might indeed be
" a lost cause" as far as the Future of Cyprus is concerned,but your one-eyed,dogmatic and fanatical belief in you own rightfulness will do more damage to the future of Cyprus than a "lost cause".. :( :(


She has no choice...That is her role.....Mainland Greeks came in the 50.s to destroy the TCs and they are here now in the form of Oracle.....When the "RoC" sees fit to send them packing once and for all then Cypriots might be able to get on with sorting out the Cyprob. As long as they allow mainland Greeks like her to come and sabotage any deal that might see the Cypriots ruling themselves then they can expect no help from us...We would not be a party to it in the 50s and we will not now.........
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Postby Nikitas » Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:32 am

"Mainland Greeks came in the 50.s"

You are full of shit. Research what the British demanded for any non Cypriot and non British person to land in Cyprus in the 50s or any other time during their possession of the island.

Either talk facts or leave it alone.
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Postby Oracle » Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:36 am

BirKibrisli wrote:It seems you are happy to accept as objective truth what you and your family experienced,but deny others the same validity...I and my family experienced many things in the 50s and 60s. Including the Enosis demands,the EOKA struggle,the TMT and its demands for Taksim,the devious British political trickery,self-interested manouvers of the USA,Turkey,Greece,the Soviets etc...Nothing in history happens in a vacuum,there is always cause and effect(s),and often the real nature of the causes obscured skillfully by propagandists...Yet you insist that the only guilty party in Cyprus are the "Turks-TCs" as you put it..

You insisted that Makarios had moved on from Enosis on the founding of the Republic...I found you an admission and Confession from the man Himself that you were wrong...But that seems to have done nothing to make you think about the complexity of the Problem. I might indeed be
" a lost cause" as far as the Future of Cyprus is concerned,but your one-eyed,dogmatic and fanatical belief in you own rightfulness will do more damage to the future of Cyprus than a "lost cause".. :( :(


I do accept the 60's inflicted some hard times on the TCs also ... we just differ on the causes, reasons and perceived justifications.

What I do not accept is your portrayal that Makarios continued to support Enosis up till 1974 which, after all, was the Turkish justification for staying on longer than an “intervention” would have required, even if her guarantor powers allowed Turkey to react as forcefully as she did.

Yes you perhaps can find some continuing sympathies towards Enosis by Makarios since it was a reasonable wish of the majority of the people of Cyprus of the times, but accept that it was a desire which diminished with time as Makarios concentrated on improving the Democratisation of the Constitution towards easier long-term self-determination.

This was his state of mind before the Turkish Invasion ... and this is what matters .. the atmosphere before the Invasion, because that is what we are trying to reverse ... not decades of other battles which helped to achieve the Independence Cyprus needed and wanted ...

Makarios writes General Ghizikis, July 1974

One of the alleged triggers for the coup against Makarios was his insistence that the Greek troops be removed from Cyprus. This letter to the Apresident@ of Greece is frequently cited as one of the provocations to the Athens military junta.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nicosia, 2nd July 1974

Mr. President,

It is with deep regret that I am bound to report to you certain unacceptable conditions and facts, for which I consider the Greek Government responsible.

Since the secret arrival in Cyprus of General Grivas, in September 1971, rumours have circulated and there were well founded indications that he came to Cyprus urged and encouraged by certain circles in Athens. It is, however, certain that Grivas, from the first days of his arrival in Cyprus, was in touch with Greek officers from Greece, serving in the National Guard, by whom he was given help and support in his efforts to form an illegal organisation and to struggle allegedly for Enosis. He created the criminal organisation "EOKA B", which was the cause and the source of many ills for Cyprus. The activities of this organisation which, under the mantle of patriotism and Enosis slogans, has committed political assassinations and many other crimes are well known.

The National Guard, which is officered and controlled by Greek officers, was from the start the main supplier of both men and materials to "EOKA B", the members of which euphemistically called themselves "Enosists" and the "Enosist Array".

On many occasion I considered the question why an illegal nationally damaging organisation, which divides and causes internal dissension, splits the internal front, and leads the Greek Cypriots to civil war in Cyprus, is supported by Greek officers. On many an occasion I have also considered the question whether this support is approved by the Greek Government. I had a number of thoughts and reflections in order to find a logical answer to my doubts and to my questions. No answer under any circumstances or reflections could he supported on a logical basis. But the Greek Officers' support of "EOKA B" is in reality an undeniable fact. The National Guard camps in various places and their surrounding areas are decorated with pro-Grivas and pro-" EOKA B" slogans and with slogans against the Cyprus Government and especially against me. Greek Officers make propaganda in favour of "EOKA B" within the camps of the National Guard, openly. It is also known and it is an undeniable fact that the opposition press, which supports the criminal activities of "EOKA B", is financed by Athens, and is guided and takes its line from the persons in charge of the 2nd Bureau of the General Staff and the Greek Central Information Office (KYP) in Cyprus.

It is true, that whenever complaints were transmitted by me to the Greek Government about the attitude and behaviour of certain Greek officers, I received the reply that I ought not to hesitate to report such officers by naming them, and to state concrete accusations against them so that they would be recalled from Cyprus. I did this only on one occasion. Such a task is displeasing to me. But the evil is not cured by dealing with it in this way. What is important is the uprooting of the evil and its prevention and not simply to deal with the resulting consequences.

I regret to say, Mr. President, that the root of the evil is too deep and reaches as far as Athens. From there it is fed and from there it is conserved and spreads growing into a tree of evil, the bitter fruit of which Greek Cypriots are tasting today. And in order to be more and absolutely specific I state that members of the military regime of Greece support and direct the activities of the terrorist organisation "EOKA B". This explains the involvement of Greek officers of the National Guard in the illegal actions, conspiracies and other unacceptable situations.

Evidence of the guilt of the circles of the military regime can be found in documents, which were found recently in the possession of leading "EOKA B" persons. It is from the National Centre that money was sent plentifully for the needs of the organisation. After the death of Grivas and the recall of Major Karousos, who came with him, orders were given regarding the leadership of the organisation, and generally all directives came from Athens. It is not possible to doubt the genuineness of these documents, because the typed ones have corrections made by hand, and the handwriting of the author is known. I enclose one such document as an example.

I have always had as a principle and have repeatedly stated that cooperation with each Greek Government constitutes a national duty for me. National interest dictates harmonious and close cooperation between Athens and Nicosia. Whichever the Government of Greece is, it is for me the Government of the motherland and I must cooperate with it. I cannot say that I have special sympathy with military regimes especially in Greece, the country which gave birth to and is the cradle of democracy. But even in this case I did not waver from the principle of cooperation. You should understand however, Mr. President, the sad thoughts which occupy and torment me, after ascertaining that persons of the Government of Greece are guiding conspiracies against me, and worst of all dividing the Greeks of Cyprus and driving them to destroy each other. Not just on one occasion up to now have I felt, and in some instances almost been touched by an invisible hand stretched from Athens, searching in order to destroy my human existence. However, for the sake of national expediency I kept silent. Even the crafty spirit which seized the three defrocked bishops who, created a great crisis in the church, had its source of origin and emanated from Athens. However, I said nothing regarding this. I just pondered and considered all this. I would have continued to remain silent regarding the responsibility of the Greek Government in the present drama of Cyprus, if I was the only sufferer on the stage of this drama. But covering up and silence are not permissible, when all of Cypriot Hellenism is suffering, when Greek officers of the National Guard, urged by Athens are supporting "EOKA B" in criminal activities, which include political assassinations and are generally aimed at the dissolution of the state.

In the effort to dissolve the state of Cyprus great is the responsibility of the Greek Government. The Cyprus state can only be dissolved in the case of Enosis. Since, however, Enosis is not feasible it is imperative to strengthen the statehood of Cyprus. The Greek Government in its entire stance regarding the issue of the National Guard is practicing an abrogative policy on the Cyprus state. Some months ago the General Headquarters of the National Guard, which consists entirely of Greek officers, submitted to the Government of Cyprus for approval a list of candidates for cadet officers, who would he trained in a special school and would subsequently serve, during the course of their service, as officers. The Council of Ministers did not approve fifty-seven of the candidates on the list. General Headquarters was duly informed by letter. Despite this, on instructions from Athens, Headquartes did not pay any attention to the decision of the Council of Ministers, which had, on the basis of legislation, the exclusive right to appoint officers of the National Guard. Acting with impunity and arbitrarily General Headquarters trampled on laws, ignored the decision of the Government and enrolled the candidates which had not been approved in the school for officers. I consider absolutely unacceptable this attitude of the National Guard Headquarters, which consists of officers dependent on the Greek Government. The National Guard is an organ of the state of Cyprus and it must be controlled by it and not by Athens. The theory of a unitary defensive area of Greece-Cyprus has its sentimental side, but in reality the situation is different. The National Guard, in the way it is composed and officered today has deflected itself from its purpose and has become a place of burgeoning illegality, a centre of conspiracies against the state and a source of supplies for "EOKA B". Suffice it to say that vehicles of the National Guard in the recently increased activities of "EOKA B" transported arms and moved members of the organisation, whose arrest was imminent, to safety. The absolute responsibility for this deviation of the National Guard rests with Greek officers, some of whom are from head to foot mixed up and participate in "EOKA B ". And the National Centre is not without its share in responsibility. The Greek government could, with a simple nod, put an end to this regrettable situation. The National Centre could order an end to the violence and the terrorism of "EOKA B", because it is from Athens that the organisation derives the means of its support and its strength, as is proved by various evidence and receipts. As proof of this unacceptable situation I note here in parenthesis, that in Athens slogans were written against me on the walls of churches and other buildings, including the building of the Cyprus Embassy, yet the Greek Government, despite the fact, that it knows the identity of the perpetrators made no attempt to arrest and punish even one of them, tolerating thus propaganda for "EOKA B".

I have a lot more to say, Mr. President, but I do not think that I ought to speak at greater length. And in conclusion I convey to you that the National Guard which is officered by Greek officers, and whose sorry plight has shaken the confidence of the people of Cyprus, will be restructured on a new basis. I have shortened the period of service in order to reduce the ceiling of the National Guard and the extent of the evil. Possibly it could be observed that the reduction in the strength of the National Guard, due to the shortening of the period of service, would render it incapable of fulfilling its duty in the case of national danger. For reasons I do not wish to state here, I do not share this view. And I would request that the Greek officers serving in the National Guard be recalled. Their continued service and command of the National Guard would be damaging to the relations between Athens and Nicosia. I would, however, be happy should you wish to send to Cyprus about a hundred Greek officers to act as instructors and advisers to assist in the reorganisation of the armed forces of the Republic. I hope that, in the meantime, instructions will he given from Athens to "EOKA B" to terminate its activities since while it is not disbanded definitely it cannot be excluded that it will start a new wave of violence and assassinations.

I regret, Mr. President, that I found it necessary to say many unpleasant things in order to describe in these lines and in a language of raw sincerity the lamentable situation which has existed for a long time. This, however, is dictated by National interest, which I always have as a guide for all my actions. I do not wish to interrupt my co-operation with the Greek Government. It must, however, he kept in mind that I am not an appointed commissioner nor a locum tenens of the Greek Government in Cyprus, but an elected leader of a large section of Hellenism and I demand analogous behaviour towards me from the National Centre. The contents of this letter are not secret.

With hearty wishes,

Makarios of Cyprus
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Postby BirKibrisli » Wed Oct 01, 2008 12:04 pm

Oracle,

I have no problem believing that Makarios had abandoned Enosis by the end of the 60s...He had indeed changed tack....Probably after the 1967 incidents at Kofunya...From then on his plan was to encourage and help as many TC as possible to leave Cyprus...And he was very successful at that...I will say it again...Had the Sampson coup and the Turkish invasion had not happened Cyprus would've been rid of all her TCs by the end of the 70s or 80s...Hence the reason why no TC would consider Makarios a hero...
As far as I am concerned,Makarios,by continuing to aim for Enosis after pledging to uphold the independence of the new Republic,was committing an act of treason...Same for Papadopoulos,Yorgadjis et al...Their alliagence was to a foreign country and they were working to undermind the State Of Cyprus, while they were serving as President and Ministers in the new government...There is no doubt in my mind that treason was technically what these people were practising...Can you see how a TC would come to this conclusion???? Because if you can't there is no point even trying to get through to you ever... :arrow:
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Postby Oracle » Wed Oct 01, 2008 8:41 pm

How about this forgotten lovely lady hero ...

Wiki wrote:Moscho Tzavela

Moscho Tzavela was a Souliote, the wife of Lambros Tzavelas, with whom she had a son, Fotos. She commanded a crowd of 400 female rebels, who took part in the winning battle of Kiafa against the army of Ali Pasha, consisting of Albanians, in July 20, 1792, resulting in 2,000-3,000 people killed from the army of Ali, and only 74 from the Greek side. After the defeat of the Souliotes, she went to Parga and then moved to the Ionian Islands, where she died in 1803. People, who had met her in Kerkyra, described her as a slight woman, with a beautiful face and a sparkling glance.



She led 400 women to beat Ali Pasha's thousands ... :lol: :lol: :lol:


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Incompetent fool .... :lol:
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Postby repulsewarrior » Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:03 pm

...ratsa
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