Cyprus-Forum.com

[Tim Drayton]

[...]

Those who dispute this right with the excuse that there is some TC minority on the island, should tell us why Asia Minor was named "Turkey" by the Turks
[...]

The point here is that the Turks (or Muslims or whatever you want to call them) decided to name that country as "Turkey", without taking the approval of the minorities of Asia Minor.

Try re-reading my post, mate.

The point is that Europeans first named this part of the world "Turkey" - in the Middle Ages - at a time when the Turks themselves had not even developed a national consciousness - a process that was only born at the end of the nineteenth century.

[Piratis]

[...]

Those who dispute this right with the excuse that there is some TC minority on the island, should tell us why Asia Minor was named "Turkey" by the Turks
[...]

The point here is that the Turks (or Muslims or whatever you want to call them) decided to name that country as "Turkey", without taking the approval of the minorities of Asia Minor.

Try re-reading my post, mate.

The point is that Europeans first named this part of the world "Turkey" - in the Middle Ages - at a time when the Turks themselves had not even developed a national consciousness - a process that was only born at the end of the nineteenth century.

Mate, "Republic of Turkey" was not declared by any foreigners. Why don't they also name Istanbul as Constantinople because some foreigners call it like that? What don't they also declare Kurdistan for the same reason?

For all I care they could have allowed Cyprus to be part of Greece, and then they Turks could call Cyprus whatever they wanted. I wouldn't care less. What matters is what a territory is officially not what some, especially foreigners, call it.

[Tim Drayton]

Are we talking about the proclamation of the Republic of Turkey in 1923, or the name Turkey for Asia Minor that was first coined in the Middle Ages by Europeans? These are totally unrelated questions.

[BirKibrisli]

Oracle...This is from the horses mouth:

I,too spoke of Enosis after Zurich....voicing this aspiration...

You will find it around 4.30 minutes into the video....

[Oracle]

[...]

Those who dispute this right with the excuse that there is some TC minority on the island, should tell us why Asia Minor was named "Turkey" by the Turks
[...]

You will find that it was Europeans that first began to refer to Asia Minor as Turkey; the etymological roots of this name are to be found in the Medieval Latin word "Turchia".

If you study the development of a Turkish national consciousness, you will see that this was a very late historical development. Speakers of the Turkish language in the Ottoman empire perceived of themselves as belonging to the Muslim "ruling community" and had no awareness that their language was related to those spoken in Central Asia, or of their ancestors' migration from that region. It was Western European orientalists who first discovered this link. The great father of Turkish nationalism, Ziya Gökalp, himself said that it was only in 1896 when he read a work by one of the great contemporary French orientalists that he first became aware of a unique Turkish identity.

I don't know which are those Europeans you are talking about Tim. There are Europeans today that still call Istanbul as Constantinople.

The point here is that the Turks (or Muslims or whatever you want to call them) decided to name that country as "Turkey", without taking the approval of the minorities of Asia Minor.

The idea that some minority, especially one which is created by a relatively recent foreign ruler, should be able to stop the overwhelming majority of that territory to achieve their freedom in the way they wanted, is something forced only against Cyprus.

The "Turkish Cypriot Community" was invented and created out of the Muslims of Cyprus, just to use them as an excuse and as the pawns to deny to Cyprus its freedom.

It was a revelation to see halil's post (which he later regretted ), referring to the fact that he only became a TC in 1960 .... (presumably the gift of "recognition" they received from the departing colonialists ).

[denizaksulu]

[...]

Those who dispute this right with the excuse that there is some TC minority on the island, should tell us why Asia Minor was named "Turkey" by the Turks
[...]

You will find that it was Europeans that first began to refer to Asia Minor as Turkey; the etymological roots of this name are to be found in the Medieval Latin word "Turchia".

If you study the development of a Turkish national consciousness, you will see that this was a very late historical development. Speakers of the Turkish language in the Ottoman empire perceived of themselves as belonging to the Muslim "ruling community" and had no awareness that their language was related to those spoken in Central Asia, or of their ancestors' migration from that region. It was Western European orientalists who first discovered this link. The great father of Turkish nationalism, Ziya Gökalp, himself said that it was only in 1896 when he read a work by one of the great contemporary French orientalists that he first became aware of a unique Turkish identity.

Also, written by others, non-Turkish btw. was that Anatolia was the land of Roum as opposed to Rumelia/Rumeli (which is the European part /Balkan part of the Ottoman Empire. Also in use was the term Karaman as it was a large chunk of Anatolia at the time. Anatolia was sub-divided into Beyler-beyliks (lord of the lords?). These names were more used than any others.

[denizaksulu]

[...]

Those who dispute this right with the excuse that there is some TC minority on the island, should tell us why Asia Minor was named "Turkey" by the Turks
[...]

The point here is that the Turks (or Muslims or whatever you want to call them) decided to name that country as "Turkey", without taking the approval of the minorities of Asia Minor.

Try re-reading my post, mate.

The point is that Europeans first named this part of the world "Turkey" - in the Middle Ages - at a time when the Turks themselves had not even developed a national consciousness - a process that was only born at the end of the nineteenth century.

Mate, "Republic of Turkey" was not declared by any foreigners. Why don't they also name Istanbul as Constantinople because some foreigners call it like that? What don't they also declare Kurdistan for the same reason?

For all I care they could have allowed Cyprus to be part of Greece, and then they Turks could call Cyprus whatever they wanted. I wouldn't care less. What matters is what a territory is officially not what some, especially foreigners, call it.

I always have a laugh when I see 17/18th century maps with TURKEY written right accross Present day Greece. Theres history for you.

[Tim Drayton]

This one will probably interest you Deniz. A professor at Bosphorous University claims that the word "Turk" cannot be encountered even once in Ottoman archives:

http://www.bianet.org/bianet/kategori/i ... kullanildi

[Oracle]

[...]

Those who dispute this right with the excuse that there is some TC minority on the island, should tell us why Asia Minor was named "Turkey" by the Turks
[...]

The point here is that the Turks (or Muslims or whatever you want to call them) decided to name that country as "Turkey", without taking the approval of the minorities of Asia Minor.

Try re-reading my post, mate.

The point is that Europeans first named this part of the world "Turkey" - in the Middle Ages - at a time when the Turks themselves had not even developed a national consciousness - a process that was only born at the end of the nineteenth century.

Mate, "Republic of Turkey" was not declared by any foreigners. Why don't they also name Istanbul as Constantinople because some foreigners call it like that? What don't they also declare Kurdistan for the same reason?

For all I care they could have allowed Cyprus to be part of Greece, and then they Turks could call Cyprus whatever they wanted. I wouldn't care less. What matters is what a territory is officially not what some, especially foreigners, call it.

I always have a laugh when I see 17/18th century maps with TURKEY written right accross Present day Greece. Theres history for you.

And when were they printed? More historical revisionism no doubt If there was no country called Turkey before 1923, then they took a pre-existing name for a region or a group of people, then it is just a continuation of what is becoming a tome of evidence to suggest that the Turks have contributed nothing of novelty, but have adapted from everything they have swallowed in their paths ....

@ BirKisbrisli ... I will give your posts my full attention later this evening when I have less interruptions.

[denizaksulu]

This one will probably interest you Deniz. A professor at Bosphorous University claims that the word "Turk" cannot be encountered even once in Ottoman archives:

http://www.bianet.org/bianet/kategori/i ... kullanildi

Cok enteresan. Benim de anladigima gore, eski kayitlarda ya Muslim ya da gayri Muslim olarak geciyoruz.

It will lose a lot in my translation apologies.