Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

Do you give up on other avenues when you are trying to negotiate with GCs knowing full well that these talks have no chance of success. You have to keep your other options alive.

The only options available VP are the options leading to the unification of our island , occupying troops out , equal rights for all Cypriots and a bright new future for all our people.
Recognition of the Turkish mainland creation consisting of an overwhelming mainland Turkish citizens will not succeed and if it does it will be like a time bomb waiting to explode. The Cypriot people , G/Cs as well as T/Cs will not accept the annexation of a part of Cyprus by Turkey .Make no mistake , Turkey IS the power in the occupied part such is usually the role of an occupying power .
Here in London I hear it day in and day out from T/Cs that do not like what is happening to their country , they want to remain as T/Cs and preserve their identity. The Zans of this world are the minority , they are the non T/Cs , they have never experienced their T/Cypriotness , they have never felt and touched their T/Cypriotness this is the reason they are willing to sign it away to Turkey , they have never had in the first place so something they never had they cant lose.
The voice of the T/Cs will become louder and louder as time goes on.

1963 to 1974 vs 1974 to 2008 which do you think TCs prefer? During which time have they seen their standard of life improve, whom have they built strong ties with? and who safeguards and financially supports them? Why throw all this away on the chance that GCs will treat them as equals and share Cyprus?

Their standard of living improved ?? Which T/Cs are you talking about VP , the more than half that emigrated or the few thousand that have feathered their nests while others are barely surviving.
Do you know the exact or the approximate number of T/Cs left in Cyprus ?
Please tell me if you know , I have been told that there are about 60 thousand , is this figure correct ?

Miltiades my dear friend let me tell u how my life is improved after 74 ...

I know some of u will tell that i have a stolen GC's property .... which i don't have any ... from begining i started with these words ....

ok .... i was born during british time .... it was 1957 .

intercommunal conflicts started in 1963 .... İ was 7 years old .....

we were living in enclave area .... we did not have electricity , no telephone , not asplath roads , no direct communications with out side world , no TV only limited radios ....without electricity ,it was difficult to drink cold water in summer times but around the our villages there was a GC or mixed villages there was a electricity and nice roads ... we have seen all these ones after 74 my dear friend .with electricity our life changed very quickly .... there was a fear every day and night in our lives before 74 .... what will happen tomorrow ....
now i am 51 years old , i can't swim ...see was only 15 kilometers from my home but i could not go .... FEAR my friend FEAR !!!!!! now i can go every where without fear or questioning .... no one can stop me and search my car .....

all those things are past now .... new chapter opened in my life .... İn this new chapter of my life i would like to build up something that those bad days will not happen again by doing this i must have respect to others rights as well ....

I don't agree with anybody who ever tries to tell us that our lives didn't improve in our lives it did .... I lived all those days and present day with my own experiences and no one knows it better than me or better than US .

I hope he listens to you hahlil because he says he knows more TCs than me so he is an expert...Never mind the fact that I have told him about all the cloths and money we used to send my family in Cyprus that suffered along with you in Cyprus and that my mother cried on a daily basis with the letters we got. He is Miltiades after all....The know all!!!

[Piratis]

Did he also say that the Cypriot people never ventured out from their island to harm anybody, but it is the murderous Turks who invaded us and oppressed for 3+ centuries?

Did he also say that the conflict during which he cries they suffered, was again started by the Turks in 1958 when they attacked us and collaborated with the British in order to deny to the Cypriot people their freedom and self-determination?

Or he just talked only about their suffering in that conflict, without mentioning our suffering during it, without mentioning that it is them who started it, without mentioning the suffering the Turks have caused to the native Cypriot people before that conflict, and without mentioning the suffering the Turks have caused to us after the conflict? Aparently he just remembered 1% of history, and even that 1% he distorted it to his liking! He forgot everything that didn't suit him during that conflict (including the "detail" that it is the TCs who started it) and he forgot everything that happened before and after that mere decade!

The fact is that is that it is the Turks who invaded our island with the aim to enslave and oppress us, it is them again who attacked us again and collaborated with the British in order to deny Cyprus its freedom, and it is them who again invaded in 1974 killing 1000s of people and ethnically cleansing 100s of thousands. And today they are looking for lame excuses to continue with yet more crimes against the Cypriot people.

HUNDREDS OF YEARS OF ENOSIS WAS THE CAUSE MATE!!!!!Not your lame excuse and hang ups on one year that you found and got excited about

How was our desire for freedom from your brutal rule the cause? The cause was your brutal invasion and oppresive rule over our island. If you had not invaded our island and imposed your rule over us, then we could be free along with the rest Greek islands and not have any problems.

During the Greek War of Independence in 1821, the Ottoman authorities feared that Greek Cypriots would rebel again. Archbishop Kyprianos, a powerful leader who worked to improve the education of Greek Cypriot children, was accused of plotting against the government. Kyprianos, his bishops, and hundreds of priests and important laymen were arrested and summarily hanged or decapitated on July 9, 1821.

So is the cause the brutal Turkish rule who killed everybody who wanted Cyprus to be free, or the Cypriot people who wanted their freedom along with the rest Greek island and territories? The answer is clear Zan.

[zan]

Did he also say that the Cypriot people never ventured out from their island to harm anybody, but it is the murderous Turks who invaded us and oppressed for 3+ centuries?

Did he also say that the conflict during which he cries they suffered, was again started by the Turks in 1958 when they attacked us and collaborated with the British in order to deny to the Cypriot people their freedom and self-determination?

Or he just talked only about their suffering in that conflict, without mentioning our suffering during it, without mentioning that it is them who started it, without mentioning the suffering the Turks have caused to the native Cypriot people before that conflict, and without mentioning the suffering the Turks have caused to us after the conflict? Aparently he just remembered 1% of history, and even that 1% he distorted it to his liking! He forgot everything that didn't suit him during that conflict (including the "detail" that it is the TCs who started it) and he forgot everything that happened before and after that mere decade!

The fact is that is that it is the Turks who invaded our island with the aim to enslave and oppress us, it is them again who attacked us again and collaborated with the British in order to deny Cyprus its freedom, and it is them who again invaded in 1974 killing 1000s of people and ethnically cleansing 100s of thousands. And today they are looking for lame excuses to continue with yet more crimes against the Cypriot people.

HUNDREDS OF YEARS OF ENOSIS WAS THE CAUSE MATE!!!!!Not your lame excuse and hang ups on one year that you found and got excited about

How was our desire for freedom from your brutal rule the cause? The cause was your brutal invasion and oppresive rule over our island. If you had not invaded our island and imposed your rule over us, then we could be free along with the rest Greek islands and not have any problems.

During the Greek War of Independence in 1821, the Ottoman authorities feared that Greek Cypriots would rebel again. Archbishop Kyprianos, a powerful leader who worked to improve the education of Greek Cypriot children, was accused of plotting against the government. Kyprianos, his bishops, and hundreds of priests and important laymen were arrested and summarily hanged or decapitated on July 9, 1821.

So is the cause the brutal Turkish rule who killed everybody who wanted Cyprus to be free, or the Cypriot people who wanted their freedom along with the rest Greek island and territories? The answer is clear Zan.

Cyprus is a Greek island Never has been.....

[miltiades]

Halil , you dont have to tell me that you do not live in "stolen" property.
I agree that electricity and other comforts have made our life a lot more comfortable.
I also did not have electricity , apart from my two years in the orphanage , but on returning in 1955 to my village we still did not have electricity.
I agree that fear plays a horrendous part in anyone's life , but it is a fact that fear came from both sides of the extremists , the EOKA B , and the TMT , both instilled fear in peoples hearts. You corrected me sometime back by reminding me of the murders of T/Cs on November 15th 1967 , and you also stated that no casualties since that dreadful date until 1974.So surely Halil if people survived some 7 years without any casualties what makes anyone now think that uniting the Cypriot people would lead to anarchy and communal strife. I believe not provided the people really want a fresh start as I'm sure they do.
Im totaly commited to a united Cyprus , united Cypriots , foreign troops out , all Cypriots enjoying equal rights and will always challenge any divisionist ideas or recognition of a separate nation within Cyprus . Im as you very well know a 100% Cypriot who sees only Cypriots and only majorities , and majorities we all are.

[zan]

Halil , you dont have to tell me that you do not live in "stolen" property.
I agree that electricity and other comforts have made our life a lot more comfortable.
I also did not have electricity , apart from my two years in the orphanage , but on returning in 1955 to my village we still did not have electricity.
I agree that fear plays a horrendous part in anyone's life , but it is a fact that fear came from both sides of the extremists , the EOKA B , and the TMT , both instilled fear in peoples hearts. You corrected me sometime back by reminding me of the murders of T/Cs on November 15th 1967 , and you also stated that no casualties since that dreadful date until 1974.So surely Halil if people survived some 7 years without any casualties what makes anyone now think that uniting the Cypriot people would lead to anarchy and communal strife. I believe not provided the people really want a fresh start as I'm sure they do.
Im totaly commited to a united Cyprus , united Cypriots , foreign troops out , all Cypriots enjoying equal rights and will always challenge any divisionist ideas or recognition of a separate nation within Cyprus . Im as you very well know a 100% Cypriot who sees only Cypriots and only majorities , and majorities we all are.

Why do you keep ignoring the siege in that period.... Living in peace..what the hell is the wrong with you

[miltiades]

Halil , you dont have to tell me that you do not live in "stolen" property.
I agree that electricity and other comforts have made our life a lot more comfortable.
I also did not have electricity , apart from my two years in the orphanage , but on returning in 1955 to my village we still did not have electricity.
I agree that fear plays a horrendous part in anyone's life , but it is a fact that fear came from both sides of the extremists , the EOKA B , and the TMT , both instilled fear in peoples hearts. You corrected me sometime back by reminding me of the murders of T/Cs on November 15th 1967 , and you also stated that no casualties since that dreadful date until 1974.So surely Halil if people survived some 7 years without any casualties what makes anyone now think that uniting the Cypriot people would lead to anarchy and communal strife. I believe not provided the people really want a fresh start as I'm sure they do.
I'm totally committed to a united Cyprus , united Cypriots , foreign troops out , all Cypriots enjoying equal rights and will always challenge any divisionist ideas or recognition of a separate nation within Cyprus . I'm as you very well know a 100% Cypriot who sees only Cypriots and only majorities , and majorities we all are.

Why do you keep ignoring the siege in that period.... Living in peace..what the hell is the wrong with you

Zan , why this obsession with the past , these events are more than 40 years old , most Cypriots were not even born then, cant you just lay the past to rest and devote your energy to the future ? Cant you see that Cyprus today IS NOT Cyprus OF 1963 ? You are besotted with EOKA , GRIVAS , MEGALIFUCKING IDEA AND ALL OTHER GHOSTS . Zan , wake up mate that was the last century as relevant as the Ottoman invasion of 1571 !!
Wake up man , face the future not the past.

[Viewpoint]

zan thats how GCs are they avoid the real question and repeat the same old shit, if you are commited to a united Cyprus as you claim Miltiades its the Gcs you have to convinse to share the island eqaully under a BBF with political equality of the 2 communities.

[halil]

Halil , you dont have to tell me that you do not live in "stolen" property.
I agree that electricity and other comforts have made our life a lot more comfortable.
I also did not have electricity , apart from my two years in the orphanage , but on returning in 1955 to my village we still did not have electricity.
I agree that fear plays a horrendous part in anyone's life , but it is a fact that fear came from both sides of the extremists , the EOKA B , and the TMT , both instilled fear in peoples hearts. You corrected me sometime back by reminding me of the murders of T/Cs on November 15th 1967 , and you also stated that no casualties since that dreadful date until 1974.So surely Halil if people survived some 7 years without any casualties what makes anyone now think that uniting the Cypriot people would lead to anarchy and communal strife. I believe not provided the people really want a fresh start as I'm sure they do.
Im totaly commited to a united Cyprus , united Cypriots , foreign troops out , all Cypriots enjoying equal rights and will always challenge any divisionist ideas or recognition of a separate nation within Cyprus . Im as you very well know a 100% Cypriot who sees only Cypriots and only majorities , and majorities we all are.

Miltiades ,
I said some of u will say that i live on stolen property not u . when ever we try to tell how things are changed in our live ... they comes straight away with this idea . which is not always true .

you are correct no one get hurt between that time u said at above but it doesnt mean it did help peoples life to improve their lives . they were in fear ... they couldn't do free bussiness like today , they couldn't make their lifes better ... thats why they left Cyprus to UK ,Australia ,Turkey and other part of the countries .

As soon as invation started Miltiades our villages were under the gun fire again 74 . I was tald u that i have been at front line in 74 ...I was 17 years old that time . i have been called ... I have witness bad side of the war .how it was .... from the morning of 20th july how we were under the heavy gun fire . we were nt firing to anybody that time . i have seen with my own eyes how 2 young TC's men got killed by these fires . İn tree days 17 of them been killed under the heavy fire .Turkish Army came to our villages after 24 july . than everything was quite for our villages .

When i hear sometimes that no one is get killed in 74 ... İ can not ignore it .

i better off now .... i hate to talk about those days ......... war is realy bad and scary .... terrible ....

[zan]

Halil , you dont have to tell me that you do not live in "stolen" property.
I agree that electricity and other comforts have made our life a lot more comfortable.
I also did not have electricity , apart from my two years in the orphanage , but on returning in 1955 to my village we still did not have electricity.
I agree that fear plays a horrendous part in anyone's life , but it is a fact that fear came from both sides of the extremists , the EOKA B , and the TMT , both instilled fear in peoples hearts. You corrected me sometime back by reminding me of the murders of T/Cs on November 15th 1967 , and you also stated that no casualties since that dreadful date until 1974.So surely Halil if people survived some 7 years without any casualties what makes anyone now think that uniting the Cypriot people would lead to anarchy and communal strife. I believe not provided the people really want a fresh start as I'm sure they do.
I'm totally committed to a united Cyprus , united Cypriots , foreign troops out , all Cypriots enjoying equal rights and will always challenge any divisionist ideas or recognition of a separate nation within Cyprus . I'm as you very well know a 100% Cypriot who sees only Cypriots and only majorities , and majorities we all are.

Why do you keep ignoring the siege in that period.... Living in peace..what the hell is the wrong with you

Zan , why this obsession with the past , these events are more than 40 years old , most Cypriots were not even born then, cant you just lay the past to rest and devote your energy to the future ? Cant you see that Cyprus today IS NOT Cyprus OF 1963 ? You are besotted with EOKA , GRIVAS , MEGALIFUCKING IDEA AND ALL OTHER GHOSTS . Zan , wake up mate that was the last century as relevant as the Ottoman invasion of 1571 !!
Wake up man , face the future not the past.

I will tell you once again Miltiades and hope it sticks this time:

I was born the same year the first Republic ever was formed in Cyprus....I was the first generation born into the Cyprus Republic. My rights were assured under the Zurich agreement and my future secured. I was 3 years old and that right was taken away from me by bloodshed and at gunpoint. Why should I let it go just like that. Why should I put my future now in the hands of the likes of Tpap and a church that does not let the government change history books that tell of barbaric Turks....WHY!!!

[miltiades]

zan thats how GCs are they avoid the real question and repeat the same old shit, if you are commited to a united Cyprus as you claim Miltiades its the Gcs you have to convinse to share the island eqaully under a BBF with political equality of the 2 communities.

And Turkey with the legal right to intervene at will anywhere in Cyprus , correct , this is what you want me to convince the G/Cs to accept ?
Do you also want me to convince the G/Cs that the 200 thousand Anatolian settlers should remain in Cyprus and have equal rights to the rest of us ?
VP , can you ever put yourself in a G/Cs shoes , someone who lost his ancestral home because Turkey invaded Cyprus and took it away from him , do you now want me to tell him to forget it , accept the settlers and accept that the invader will be given a new legal right to intervene anywhere in Cyprus ? ? Not on your Nellie mate.