Cyprus-Forum.com

[DT.]

Ethnic Cleansing, Pot,Kettle and Black...

Good name for a thread, bad content. Who cares about Turkey, the same happened in Cyprus which is slightly more relevant in my opinion.

When the 20.000 Greeks invaded Cyprus we were ethnically cleansed from all over the place. Thankfully our Greek friends thought themselves invincible and didn't hesitate to do all this infront of cameras.

I have in my possession some really good pictures that I brought back from Cyprus if anyone thinks it necessary to see some CREDIBLE evidence.

Including pictures of the barbarian Greek army with the rockets they were using against defenceless TCs. The remains of our villages and mosques after they were reduced to rubble by their weapons (all taken by the UN). I even have pictures of TCs being ethnically cleansed by Greeks at gun point from Kucuk Kaymakli and a map from the UNs Ortega report showing just how severe their attack on us was!!!

Then they turned around and told their own people and the world that we did all this to ourselves to achieve partition.

Forget what happened in Turkey...you ONLY need to look at Cyprus to see what ruthless savages these people can be.

Instead of going through the same drill of you show me your dead and I show you mine....mine are more...mine died more painfully etc etc And at the same time shame both our fallen ones and the reasons they fell, allow me to respond to you with a tc journalist who is currently barred from entering the "trnc"


Serhat Incirli



How can we find a solution???

What is the reason for the lack of one?

Or,Who is the least to blame for the state of affairs???

Answer these questions,and the solution will follow...



For Denktash and his Cronies the answer was ready and clear.

There was no solution because of the GCs intransigent attitude...

And Turkey was the least to blame...

The GCs wanted to eat us for breakfast...

Turkey came and saved our skin.

Hence everything we found in the North was our God-given right...

We should demand what we left in the South as well.

This was taught to us in Cyprus for years.

The GCs were aggressive...

The GCs were murderers...

The GCs were all bad...

We were the innocent ones.

The murder-victims...

The good guys.

We had no faults...

Yep,these were what we were taught.

There were no flies on us.

The highway robbers were the GCs...

They wanted ENOSIS...

They drew up the Akritas Plan.

They wanted war.

We did absolutely nothing wrong...

Never blocked a road,never shot anyone...

Never smuggled arms into Cyprus...

The boat "Yavuz" was not ours.

The GCs attacked us,so Turkey had the right to come...and stay.

The GCs were guilty,so their properties legally became our "ganimet"(war trophy)...

All this was drilled into our heads by Denktash and the Turkish "deep state"...

GCs bad,TCs good.

Could you call Turkey "an occupier"?

Not possible,brother...

Turkey came,innocently and without any hidden motives,to save us from GC cruelty...

Why wasn't she leaving???

Pulling back after completing her duty as a guarantor???

Denktash had a simple answer: If Turkey left they'd .... our mothers!

I can't spell it out but you know what I mean...

Without Turkey we cannot protect our honour,Rauf Bey used to say.

Remember?

It came naturally to Denktash and his Cronies.

It was their job,after all!



But to hear all this from Talat and his CTP administration was unthinkable...

They were expected to say a few things about the "ganimet",but they didnt...

"Do you expect us to live in tin shacks", said Talat's spokesperson himself.

They didn't say," We shed blood,so the land belongs to us" at least...



We saw that the blame game,and punishing the guilty,did not get us anywhere.

But we didn't learn our lesson obviously.



The GCs now have a new, progressive,pro-solution leader.

At least the World thinks so!

Do what you like,the "Tassos" excuse will not work for the World.

Things have to change...

What are we to do???

We should sit down and negotiate a Federal solution a.s.a.p...

Without delay.



Let Christofias call Turkey "occupier".

What did you expect? To call Turkey "saviour"??? for God's sake!

It's time for logical thinking.

Lets stop the blame game.

What is logical and legal is obvious...

Lets try to achieve that.

Lets not waste our time using the Denktash mentality.

Don't expect Christofias to say," You know, that TRNC flag on the mountains look great at night!I will give you money to make it shine brighter..."

Or,"Okey,my dears,You have your state We have ours;lets have a pool party once a week,eat drink and be merry!"

And don't expect "We don't really want Varosia or Morphou back...Lets bring more settlers from Turkey and make them citizens!"....

Or, "Help yourself to Paphos too,we don't really need it..."

Please...Please friends...

The solution is obvious...

The last stop is a Federation...

The alternative is "no solution"...

[Piratis]

T_C, when did all those things that you are talking about happened?

Before you invaded our island killing 10s of thousands of people?

In the summer of 1570, the Turks struck again, but this time with a full-scale invasion rather than a raid. About 60,000 troops, including cavalry and artillery, under the command of Lala Mustafa Pasha landed unopposed near Limassol on July 2, 1570, and laid siege to Nicosia. In an orgy of victory on the day that the city fell--September 9, 1570--20,000 Nicosians were put to death, and every church, public building, and palace was looted.

I guess not.

Or maybe it was before you attacked as again in 1958?

The first inter-communal violence in the recent history of Cyprus was, in fact, caused by T.M.T. This was the result of a policy of hate cultivated by the Turkish Cypriot leadership and it aimed at persuading world public opinion that Turkish Cypriots could not co-exist with Greek Cypriots and, therefore, partition in one form or another was necessary. On 12 June 1958 eight innocent and unarmed Greek Cypriot civilians from Kondemenos village were murdered by T.M.T. terrorists near the Turkish populated village of Geunyeli. That was the first incident involving human lives. According to the findings of the "Commission of Inquiry into the Incidents at Geunyeli" (appointed by the British colonial administration), which were also included in the official report of Sir Paget Bourke, Chief Justice of Cyprus, "for some days prior to 12 June, in fact from 7 June, inter-communal feeling was running very high in the island and there had been many instances of attacks by Turks, particularly in Nicosia, upon members of the Greek community and upon Greek property".

I guess not, again.

Actually it never happened as you present it. Yes, in the war you started against us we had to fight, and you would inevitably have casualties as well. However your propaganda exaggerates by a factor of 100 your casualties and your suffering (which was in fact way less than ours) just to excuse yet more crimes against us.

As can be seen from a report of the council of Europe :

According to the censuses which took place in Cyprus before the factual partition of the island, the Greek Cypriot community amounted to 447,901 (78,2%) in 1960, and to 498,511 (78,9%) in 19734. The Turkish Cypriot community numbered 103,822 (18,1%) people in 1960, and 116 000 (18,4%) in 1973. The total population of Cyprus was 572,707 in 1960 and 631,778 in 1973 (see Appendix 3, Table 1). An average rate of annual growth for both communities between 1960 and 1973 was similar and amounted to 0,8%. In consequence, the ethnic distribution of the population did not change between 1960 and 1974 and the proportion of each community remained stable.

http://assembly.coe.int/Documents/Worki ... OC9799.htm

So where all all those "billions" of TCs that where killed?

More or less the same can be said about Asia minor. It is very clear who attacked whom. The invading Turkish hordes have attacked us, and this is an undisputed fact. Of course when we are attacked we will fight back, and of course the invader will have casualties as well. So what? Are we now going to place the blame for WWII on the allies, because the Nazis had casualties as well?

So stop trying to find excuses for yet more crimes against us. what you are doing against cyprus is criminal and illegal, and no kind of one sided distorted history that you manufacture can change this fact.

[T_C]

Yeah OK Piratis.

An 80% majority import 20.000 soldiers from Greece to attack an 18% minority and you still act like we were the ones in the wrong.

Thats pathetic!

No ones trying to find excuses to commit more crimes against you.

The thread is about the pot calling the kettle black, and no matter how many excuses YOU try to find, NOTHING can deny what barbarians you can be yourselves.

[Get Real!]

When the 20.000 Greeks invaded Cyprus we were ethnically cleansed from all over the place. Thankfully our Greek friends thought themselves invincible and didn't hesitate to do all this infront of cameras.

The Greek contingent you mention arrived on Cyprus early in 1964 but were soon replaced by a UN force of 6,500 troops (UNFICYP) in May 1964, as a result of UN resolution 186 (March 1964), adopted due to the Kofinou incidents where TCs decided to hijack the Nicosia-Limassol highway, and even managed to kill a couple of UN personnel during one of those incidents.

http://www.un.int/cyprus/scr186.htm

[RAFAELLA]

Yeah OK Piratis.

An 80% majority import 20.000 soldiers from Greece to attack an 18% minority and you still act like we were the ones in the wrong.

Thats pathetic!

Could please be so kind to support your claim regarding the import of 20.000 GR soldiers, with evidence?
Thank you.

[denizaksulu]

I thought the reason the other Western powers cut off their support was because Greece had been told what territory it could take following the Treaty of Sevres, but instead its army decided to drive on deep into Anatolia in a forlorn attempt to recreate the exploits of Alexander the Great, and into ultimate annihilation.

That is also what I understand too from many sources. It is not the first time that 'false' information or revised histories are produced like this.

[GreekForumer]

Mr. Diamadis fails to point out that all citizens of Turkey, not just Christians, have their religion included on their identity cards, and that this information is not used to discriminate against anyone. Religion moreover has been removed from most other official documents and all census questionnaires and reports as the first step toward complete elimination of this form of identification. Efforts to completely remove religious identification from identity cards have run into the same sort of last-ditch religious opposition in Turkey as have similar efforts in Greece.

It should also be pointed out that when the Greek army invaded Turkey between1919 and 1922, it carried out a conscious policy of ethnic cleansing with the purpose of killing and/or driving out all inhabitants of western Turkey who did not share Greek nationality and religion, causing those Muslims and Jews who survived to flee to the areas under Turkish nationalist control. This policy was eloquently reported in a detailed report presented by an International Commission of Investigation chaired by American Admiral and High Commissioner Mark Bristol, and including representatives of Italy, France and Great Britain, as well as Greek and Turkish observers, by a Red Cross report written by the Red Cross representative in Turkey, Maurice Gehry, and by historian Arnold Toybee in a series of articles published at the time in the Manchester Guardian and later summarized in his book,'The Western Question in Greece and Turkey.' As a result, Great Britain cut off all military and financial assistance to the Greek invasion, a major reason for its ultimate defeat by the armies of Mustafa Kemal Ataturk.


Professor Stanford Shaw

Professor Emeritus of Turkish and Judeo Turkish History, University of California Los Angeles

This professor was also an infamous denier of the Armenian Genocide.

This professor fails to point out any major events of importance to Ottoman Christians that preceded the Greek landing in Smyrna. Here are some of them.

Hamidian massacres
To get an idea of the scale of these killings I will use Cyprus as an example. 500 TCs were killed in the 1963-4 period. That's about 0.5% of the total TC population at the time. What if it was 20 times worse ? At a percentage of 10% that means 10,000 TCs would be killed. Well, that's the scale of death the Armenians experienced in the Hamidian massacres of 1894-96. 80,000 - 300,000 Armenian deaths.

Adana massacres
What if the number of TC deaths in 1963-4 was twice as bad ? Well, now you know how the Armenian community experienced the Adana massacres of 1909. 15,000 to 30,000 deaths.

The 1913-4 cleansing of Aegean Greeks
The 1914 cleansing of Aegean Greeks as a case of violent Turkification
Author: Matthias Bjornlund
Published in: Journal of Genocide Research, Volume 10, Issue 1 March 2008
Link

Armenian Genocide
What if the number of TC deaths in 1963-64 was over a hundred times worse ? What if more than 50% of TCs were killed in 1963-4 ? That's the scale of the Holocaust that the Armenians experienced in between 1915-1918 ! Unfortunately for the Armenians, the killings did not stop until 1923.

History does not start in 1919.

[GreekForumer]

I thought the reason the other Western powers cut off their support was because Greece had been told what territory it could take following the Treaty of Sevres, but instead its army decided to drive on deep into Anatolia in a forlorn attempt to recreate the exploits of Alexander the Great, and into ultimate annihilation.

Is it time to end the so called policy of "OLA I TIPOTA" ( everything or nothing) , cause history has shown that we get nothing. Thats how the Greeks lost Smirni ( the had it, but the wanted to reach Ankira) also same happened with east Thrace.

"OLA I TIPOTA" ?? What ?? Did the Kemalist Nationalists accept Smyrna as Greek or Christian territory in their National Pact (Misak-ı Millî) ?

Here is some Q&A for you........

What does the ideology of "Turkey for the Turks*" actually mean for non-Turks if it was put into practice ? ANSWER : Genocide or ethnic cleansing or forced assimilation or expulsion or racist laws or undemocratic laws or limited/non-existent democratic representation or a combination of these.

Did the ideology of "Turkey for the Turks" originate before Greek troops landed in Smyrna in 1919 ? ANSWER : Yes

Did the Kemalist Nationalists subscribe to the "Turkey for the Turks" ideology ? ANSWER : Yes



1- Misak-ı Milli borders & 2- Current Turkish borders

In the National Pact, how much Anatolian territory did the Nationalist Turks decide to leave aside for the Ottoman Greeks and Armenians and others who DID NOT want to be ruled by Nationalist Turks ? ANSWER : None !

With the National Pact Borders shown above, what ideology would be imposed on the non-Turks within these borders ? ANSWER : "Turkey for the Turks" ideology. (See the answer to the first question to see what that implies!)

When was the National Pact made public ? ANSWER : 12th February 1920

When did Greek troops leave the Smyrna district and advance, ultimately, towards Ankara ? ANSWER : 22nd June 1920, 4 months later.

Did the Kemalist Nationalists apply the "Turkey for the Turks" ideology on the non-Turks** after the final defeat of the Greek forces in August 1922 ? ANSWER : Yes.



*Turkey = "land of the Turks"
**Kurdish allies included

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/post-340717.html#340717

National Pact : 12th February 1920
Start of drive on deep into Anatolia : 22nd June 1920
Sevres treaty : 10th August 1920

[Piratis]

Yeah OK Piratis.

An 80% majority import 20.000 soldiers from Greece to attack an 18% minority and you still act like we were the ones in the wrong.

Thats pathetic!

No ones trying to find excuses to commit more crimes against you.

The thread is about the pot calling the kettle black, and no matter how many excuses YOU try to find, NOTHING can deny what barbarians you can be yourselves.

What you are talking about never happened mate.

You are the ones who attacked us as I have shown clearly in my earlier post. In the war you started against us you have killed way more Greek Cypriots than the amount of casualties that you had.

Are you going to blame us because in the war you started against us you also had some casualties?

And when i refer to "you" in this case I refer to Turks in general. The wars have always been between Cyprus and Turkey and not just between Cypriots and some Turkish minority that lived here. If it was like that then do you think you would manage to rule Cyprus and oppress us for 300+ years? The Turks in Cyprus have always been just the extension of the 70 million Turks. Here we are talking about small Cyprus of half million people (sometimes with support of the rest of Greeks of 10 million) versus the invading Turks of 70 million. So don't try to present yourself as the weak and innocent ones. If it was like that then you wouldn't have managed to kill so many 1000s of Cypriots, oppress our rights and occupy our lands.

[zan]

Yeah OK Piratis.

An 80% majority import 20.000 soldiers from Greece to attack an 18% minority and you still act like we were the ones in the wrong.

Thats pathetic!

No ones trying to find excuses to commit more crimes against you.

The thread is about the pot calling the kettle black, and no matter how many excuses YOU try to find, NOTHING can deny what barbarians you can be yourselves.

What you are talking about never happened mate.

You are the ones who attacked us as I have shown clearly in my earlier post. In the war you started against us you have killed way more Greek Cypriots than the amount of casualties that you had.

Are you going to blame us because in the war you started against us you also had some casualties?

And when i refer to "you" in this case I refer to Turks in general. The wars have always been between Cyprus and Turkey and not just between Cypriots and some Turkish minority that lived here. If it was like that then do you think you would manage to rule Cyprus and oppress us for 300+ years? The Turks in Cyprus have always been just the extension of the 70 million Turks. Here we are talking about small Cyprus of half million people (sometimes with support of the rest of Greeks of 10 million) versus the invading Turks of 70 million. So don't try to present yourself as the weak and innocent ones. If it was like that then you wouldn't have managed to kill so many 1000s of Cypriots, oppress our rights and occupy our lands.

There was violence and intimidation long before then you wally...Who the hell are you trying to kid.....How long was ENOSIS your dream