Cyprus-Forum.com

[garbitsch]

Poor Arabs made the biggest mistake by allying with Brits against the Ottoman rule. We have seen the result. Tens of different artificially created Arab states with no unity amongst them, besides a Jewish state illegally occupying Palestinian territories.

I would have liked to discuss the Ottoman rule in the Middle East with you Mike, but since you are prejudiced against Turks and Turkish history, I would not dare to engage in any intellectual discussion regarding this topic.

But if you want to have more information about the Ottoman rule in M.E. I suggest you books by Stanford Shaw.

[negotiator]

Well said !!!

[MicAtCyp]

Poor Arabs made the biggest mistake by allying with Brits against the Ottoman rule. We have seen the result. Tens of different artificially created Arab states with no unity amongst them, besides a Jewish state illegally occupying Palestinian territories.

Are you trying to divert from the issue Garbitsch?? May I remind you that the issue is that even the Arabs feel hostility against the Turks for their sufferings during the Ottoman rule....I did not even mention other European Countries, to avoid your excuses on relegion.

But if you want to have more information about the Ottoman rule in M.E. I suggest you books by Stanford Shaw.

So supposely this is your answer that the Arabs were very well treated by the Ottomans just like the Greeks were, right? Well, all I can say, is that I lived there and I know how those nice feelings passed from generation to generation up until today.

PS. By the way when I say Arabs I include the countries of the Gulf like Saudi Arabia, Dubai etc not just those of the N.M.E.

[metecyp]

Are you trying to divert from the issue Garbitsch?? May I remind you that the issue is that even the Arabs feel hostility against the Turks for their sufferings during the Ottoman rule....I did not even mention other European Countries, to avoid your excuses on relegion.

What's this obsession of yours to make everything Turkish look barbaric? You're right. I'm sure at some point of time, Ottomans mistreated Arabs, Greeks, etc but you have to analyze the events in the historic framework. I watched a very comprehensive documentary about Islam on PBS recently. PBS is a documentary channels in Boston area and it's known for world-class documentaries. One hour of the Islam documentary was dedicated to Ottomans. It was said in the documentary how Ottomans had a complex "millet" system that respected minorities (in a time where there was no such thing as minority rights) and how many Christians (Greeks and Armenians in particular) played major roles in Ottoman society and politics and how Ottomans mainted a multicultural society in a time where Muslims would be publicly executed in the middle of Europe if they declared their faith.

Now, does this mean that Ottomans are angels? Of course, not. I'm certain that they mistreated certain ethnicities at some point, just like any other empire. But I suggest you read and learn about Ottomans from sources other than Greek and don't forget to remind yourself the conditions of the time and how the world operated then. Then, you'll get a better picture of Ottomans.

[MicAtCyp]

Metecyp,
For the last time: I am pissed off with you.

Go read the discussion from the beginning and stop poping in like a fart in the pants! Everytime i waste my time explaining you. These were NOT my statements they were Garbitschs statements and I asked him to think about the reasons.

So I repeat this is the LAST TIME!

[garbitsch]

Mike, how comes Ottomans had taken the culture and the language of Arabs, but still mistreated them? Ottomans adored Arab and Persian culture. Towards the last centuries of the Ottoman rule, many Arab states were ruled independently. Even Libyan people fought on the side of Turks against Italians. The Tunisian flag is of Ottoman flag. Even people in Aceh adobted Ottoman flag. Ottoman rule was not as barbaric as you are trying to portray. But since Ottomans were the ancestors of Turks and since they ruled Greeks, I do not expect you to say anything good about them. Anything includes "Turkishness" is something bad for you. That is what I've observed in you and in Piratis. Both of you guys have a very strong hatered against Turks (even if you deny that) and this has nothing to do with the "Turkish invasion".

[metecyp]

Metecyp,
For the last time: I am pissed off with you.

Go ahead, it doesn't bother me.

Go read the discussion from the beginning and stop poping in like a fart in the pants! Everytime i waste my time explaining you. These were NOT my statements they were Garbitschs statements and I asked him to think about the reasons.

What are you talking about? Didn't you point out that there's hostility among Arabs against Turks supposedly for their sufferrings? It might be true that Arabs don't like Turks but it's not simply because Ottomans were cruel. You're using this to make Turks look bad (yet again).

So I repeat this is the LAST TIME!

Last time what? Last time denying what you obviously said? That would be good. Thanks.

[MicAtCyp]

Garbitsch

in essense you deny that even the Arabs have hostile feelings against the Turks due to their experiences under the Ottoman rule, in which case I have nothing further to say to you. Metecyp does not seem to agree with you anyway.

As for diverting the issue to the Ottomans adopting the culture of the Arabs here everybody can laugh. What they adopted man was the culture of Byzantium including muzic, dance, architecture, kitchen etc they even adopted most of their governing system . . . The Ottomans had no culture of their own at that time neither did the Arabs, so they had to hung on from somewhere.

Anything includes "Turkishness" is something bad for you. That is what I've observed in you and in Piratis. Both of you guys have a very strong hatered against Turks (even if you deny that) and this has nothing to do with the "Turkish invasion".

I know myself better than you, and I am not going to answer to such stupid statements. Don't confuse the "kavga" (quarrel) nature of the forum with personal beleifs.

**************************

Last time what?

Last time you fart. You do this every time you read my answers, without caring to see to what they refer. Isn’t this what you did last time when VP called all the GCs Animals? Didn’t you fill the place with DiChloroMethane?

[garbitsch]

in essense you deny that even the Arabs have hostile feelings against the Turks due to their experiences under the Ottoman rule, in which case I have nothing further to say to you. Metecyp does not seem to agree with you anyway.

I don't agree with your argument that all Arabs have hostility against Turks. You depend this assumption to a bunch of Arabs you met while working in the Gulf states. Even if Arabs have hostility, this doesn't mean the Ottoman rule was cruel. Again, since you will never agree that Ottomans did something good, I do not want to continue this discussion.

[garbitsch]

Ottomans were also influenced by Byzantines and other European countries too. But claiming "Arabs didn't have culture" is simply a very Orientalist approach. I also urge you to read the book "Orientalism" by Edward Said. Claiming "Ottomans didn't have a culture" is this years best joke!