Cyprus-Forum.com

[Andros]

Come on all, this is supposed to be a serious issue!

Zan and Cem, in particular of course.

People on this forum clearly, due to lack of foresight, believe that my views are somewhat Turkish-Driven. Let me assure you my Greek Cypriot brothers and sisters of the following, as part of my views on the way Turkish Cypriots are TODAY:

1) In my opinion, all Turkish Cypriots are no different to those of Turkey.

2) They now speak with the same accent and even pronounce all Turkish word like they are from Turkey.

3) The old Cypriot way of saying certain words have been completed cleaned from the way Turkish Cypriot speak Turkish today, thus, they have been conditioned by mainland Turkey.

4) DO YOU SEE ANY TURKISH CYPRIOTS rioting or marching against Turkey's soldiers in the north, I certainly didn't when I crossed over to the occupuied side. In fact, I even witnessed many Turkish Cypriots displaying both the so-called TRNC flag and the Turkish flags from their cars, with the Turkish flag being of a larger size!!!

5) The Turkish Cypriots have been assured that, by accepting a United Republic of Cyprus with two constituent states and all of the other rubbish to go with it, that will give Turkey sufficient time to enter into Europe and then Flood the island.

Know matter what we, Greek Cypriots, believe or predict (as I have read in your previous postings) the underlining factor here is the disbanding of the ROC in its place with a United Republic based on Two founding States - this is unfortunately the kind of rubbish President Christofias has agreed to.

What really happens now? Please forget about the bogus theories here with Turkey's EU ambitions and etc, as, if the island is converted to a united Cyprus based on what I have said above, plus the flooding of Turks from Turkey after their entry to the EU, we as the majority Cypriot people will be reduced to a clear minority. FACT.

FACT: By agreeing to a partition of two Republic states, we will be able to control Turkish migration into Cyprus, thus keeping a Greek Cypriot majority and will have a "GREEK CYPRIOT" government only!!!! AND NOT A DUAL TURKISH CYPRIOT CONSTITUENT COUNTERPART WITH A POINTLESS LOOSE CENTRAL adminsitration that only caters for Tourism, Activites and Bi-communal events. What kind of rubbish is that.

MAKARIOS Certainly did make a mistake at UN level, and now we must end this madness. Let the Turkish Cypriots have their cake, but at least we'll be able to eat ours.

The Turkish Cypriot are no better than those from Turkey - it is up to us to convince Socialist Christofias to start negotiating on a different agreement. Pick Montenegro, Serbia or the former Czechoslovakia as models, but not BELGIUM - seeing that they can't even establish a unified government that actually satifies all of its many different Government-controlled minority Constituent peoples!!

The Turkish Cypriots have changed since the OLD days, and {President Christofias' comment on Talat is proof of that. Turkey Will one day become an EU member state as America will make certain of that, check the news, where it will be our Republic of Cyprus that will feel the harsh end of that stick. Cement of Greek Cypriot right on the ROC for ever, and keep the Turkish Cypriots at least at arms length!!

[Kikapu]

Come on all, this is supposed to be a serious issue!

Zan and Cem, in particular of course.

People on this forum clearly, due to lack of foresight, believe that my views are somewhat Turkish-Driven. Let me assure you my Greek Cypriot brothers and sisters of the following, as part of my views on the way Turkish Cypriots are TODAY:

1) In my opinion, all Turkish Cypriots are no different to those of Turkey.

2) They now speak with the same accent and even pronounce all Turkish word like they are from Turkey.

3) The old Cypriot way of saying certain words have been completed cleaned from the way Turkish Cypriot speak Turkish today, thus, they have been conditioned by mainland Turkey.

4) DO YOU SEE ANY TURKISH CYPRIOTS rioting or marching against Turkey's soldiers in the north, I certainly didn't when I crossed over to the occupuied side. In fact, I even witnessed many Turkish Cypriots displaying both the so-called TRNC flag and the Turkish flags from their cars, with the Turkish flag being of a larger size!!!

5) The Turkish Cypriots have been assured that, by accepting a United Republic of Cyprus with two constituent states and all of the other rubbish to go with it, that will give Turkey sufficient time to enter into Europe and then Flood the island.

Know matter what we, Greek Cypriots, believe or predict (as I have read in your previous postings) the underlining factor here is the disbanding of the ROC in its place with a United Republic based on Two founding States - this is unfortunately the kind of rubbish President Christofias has agreed to.

What really happens now? Please forget about the bogus theories here with Turkey's EU ambitions and etc, as, if the island is converted to a united Cyprus based on what I have said above, plus the flooding of Turks from Turkey after their entry to the EU, we as the majority Cypriot people will be reduced to a clear minority. FACT.

FACT: By agreeing to a partition of two Republic states, we will be able to control Turkish migration into Cyprus, thus keeping a Greek Cypriot majority and will have a "GREEK CYPRIOT" government only!!!! AND NOT A DUAL TURKISH CYPRIOT CONSTITUENT COUNTERPART WITH A POINTLESS LOOSE CENTRAL adminsitration that only caters for Tourism, Activites and Bi-communal events. What kind of rubbish is that.

MAKARIOS Certainly did make a mistake at UN level, and now we must end this madness. Let the Turkish Cypriots have their cake, but at least we'll be able to eat ours.

The Turkish Cypriot are no better than those from Turkey - it is up to us to convince Socialist Christofias to start negotiating on a different agreement. Pick Montenegro, Serbia or the former Czechoslovakia as models, but not BELGIUM - seeing that they can't even establish a unified government that actually satifies all of its many different Government-controlled minority Constituent peoples!!

The Turkish Cypriots have changed since the OLD days, and {President Christofias' comment on Talat is proof of that. Turkey Will one day become an EU member state as America will make certain of that, check the news, where it will be our Republic of Cyprus that will feel the harsh end of that stick. Cement of Greek Cypriot right on the ROC for ever, and keep the Turkish Cypriots at least at arms length!!

I'm sorry Andros, but now you are really trying very hard for us to believe, that you are being sincere in what you write. I don't buy your sincerity at all, but rather, you want to mislead people in thinking against their better judgement (reverse psychology). Nice try all the same.!

[Oracle]

Let the Turkish Cypriots have their cake, but at least we'll be able to eat ours.

... but that's just it, Andros ... Cyprus, or any part of it ... is not the TCs' cake!

We are not here to feed the Turks.

.... And the US will have no say in the EU memberships ... even if the US survives its pending implosion.


(BTW .... Give up trying to prove your are GC or "not Turk" or whatever ... it does not matter. Just express your views as a forumer without a vested interest. It's not a matter of nationality or ethnicity, it's just the things you say ..... so do not "apologise" for them by resorting to telling us you are GC.)

[Andros]

Kikapu

I'm sorry Andros, but now you are really trying very hard for us to believe, that you are being sincere in what you write. I don't buy your sincerity at all, but rather, you want to mislead people in thinking against their better judgement (reverse psychology). Nice try all the same.!

Sorry mate, but there's no "Reverse Psychology" here! I find it very hard to make some of you understand the important, at a higher level, of what Turkey is trying to do. Turkey wants the "ENTIRE" island and not just some 20 or so percentage assigned to a bunch of Turkish Cypriot villagers! Turkey will never release its grip on the Island of Cyprus, especially after the TWO HUGE mistakes Makarios made in 1) Signing the 1960 treaty, and 2) Agreeing to form a FEDERATION (Bi-Communal, Bi-Zonal) even after Turkey invaded the island. Do you guys really understand how crazy it is for another country to be able to invade an island and then demand complete guarantor rights - like what was in the Annan Plan. That tells me that President Christofias has no chance. At the moment, whether we consist of 82% of the population or even 90% will never make the "POLITICAL" structure any different. That's like the Indian British population in London suddenly asking for a majority control of London because it is the majority people! In Cyprus, Turkey does not care how many Greek Cypriots are shouting, but ONLY LOOKS at what is written in BLACK AND WHITE. And, unfortunately, the only Black and White document we have is the one written in the 1960 Constitution - that is what EMPOWERS Turkey. That is why Turkey always smiles in front of the words - A UN Sponsored Settlement. If our Greek Cypriot politician had any sense, they would ask the impossible, merely to completely remove TURKISH RULE once and for all. Even if the sacrifice is some land in the Northern part! At least Turkey will NOT be able to legally impose itself on us Greek Cypriots of Cyprus, internationally controlled Republic of Cyprus. Former President Klerides couldn't even import any DEFENSIVE weapons due to this Turkish hold on politics at a UN level.

Agreed Partition may seem as if it's handing over a part of our Cypriot island, but at least it's better than what TURKEY WILL DO once it becomes an EU member state - that is inevitable. Let's not be fooled here.


Oracle

We are not here to feed the Turks.

.... And the US will have no say in the EU memberships ... even if the US survives its pending implosion.


(BTW .... Give up trying to prove your are GC or "not Turk" or whatever ... it does not matter. Just express your views as a former without a vested interest. It's not a matter of nationality or ethnicity, it's just the things you say ..... so do not "apologise" for them by resorting to telling us you are GC.)

Come on Oracle, even after reading so many points of view on this Website alone you must understand the higher state of politics Turkey is trying to achieve. I would even go to say that I understand your views as to why you may think that I might be Turkish, but believe me, a true Turk would never offer the support and reason I have done so far.

Example:

You said

And the US will have no say in the EU memberships

Clearly you do not understand the power of economics, globalisation and America's impact on, especially, the EU. It's Economics that rules decisions and it's decisions that America takes that countries like Turkey gets what it wants! Take NATO for instance: Turkey was NEVER to become a NATO member, but after Turkey's support of America's fight against Korea, America by-passed all of Europe's rejections and Zippy - Turkey became perhaps one of NATO's most prominent members, stopping Cyprus from even becoming a member - please think about Cyprus' application to NATO in this Cyprus-mess! We are Stuffed if we do not peer over the wall and spot Turkey's overall strategy. Of course, you have also naturally dismissed Turkey's importance to America concerning it's Nuclear missiles pointing to Russia, Ceyhan pipeline, Azerbaijan oil production projects, Georgia, the importance of oil production and distribution from Northern Iraq and perhaps a future strike against Iran. What does this have to do with CYPRUS?

Everything! Because Turkey, until NOW, has always GOT it's way. It's like, "Oh American, I will give you want due to my GEOGRAPHICAL location as long as you support my needs on Cyprus".

Even President Christofias and Former Klerides have admitted to it - why DO YOU THINK President Tassos Papadopoulos HAD TO GO! I can bet that the so-called TRNC would have probably have been a recognised state by now, WITH "TURKYE" (as they say it) ALSO RETAINING its GUARANTOR status on the Republic of Cyprus if President Papadopoulos had won.

Why do you think President Christofias was so desperate to start negotiations. Of course, he is now stuck again because his old Socialist Dumbo Puppet friend, TALAT, has now had his ear pulled from the big boys in TURKEY and can NEVER accept a negotiating process without the THREE TURKISH Conditions! Guarantor ship, two founding Federated States and EQUALITY!!!

If you ask me, the only way out of this mess is for us, as the Greek Cypriot nation, to stand up and EMPOWER President Christofias to negotiate only on the basis for an agreed partition - by calling the bluff of TURKEY, and not necessarily the Turkish Cypriots.

The Turkish Cypriots are blinded, they can not think beyond their Cease-fire line and are now obssessed with Ayia Napa only - how sad. FEDERATION for Cyprus was entrusted to Turkey and they played, and slaughtered us like a bunch of brain-dead farmers between the years of 1960 to 1974.

Don't be fooled! If you don't agree with me now, then at least print this out and display it to your children after Turkey has been made an EU member state, after we have signed a United Republic of Cyprus and explain to them why our people were so blinded as if to have signed the 1960 treaty and the Untied 2008/9 treaty. And, why the island is Flooded with more Turks than native Greek Cypriots calling for an Election based on "Majority-Vote"!

Don't be shocked if you one day wake up to see the following:

The Republic of Turkey and the United Federation of Cyprus!

[Nikitas]

Andros puts bluntly what some of us have been hinting at in a roundabout way. Is it better to have this BBF complication with the illusion of reunification or outright independence on a fair proportion of the territory of the island?

Bananiot sees this outcome as suicide, while not defining why it is a disaster. Kifeas points to partition as a solution of exasperation. Each has a point. But as you look at these positions think back to statements by Gul, Erdogan, Ecevit on how GCs must lose their sovereignty, how double union is unacceptable, how the Annan plan was a victory achieved without removing a soldier or returning an inch of land and a picture starts to form about what Turkey intends in the long run. And the question is whether partition is a more sure way to stop these long term plans than BBF.

Now I am waiting for Bananiot to drop a rock on my head. But at some point we must ask the right questions and not rely on assumptions.

[Andros]

Nikitas,

Thank you. I totally agree with what you've said, espeically the reference to the Comments made by the leaders of Turkey - it's really spelt out in plain baby language.

But as you look at these positions think back to statements by Gul, Erdogan, Ecevit on how GCs must lose their sovereignty, how double union is unacceptable, how the Annan plan was a victory achieved without removing a soldier or returning an inch of land and a picture starts to form about what Turkey intends in the long run.

Superb Nikitas, I could not have said it better myself. Even Mr Gul reiterated, once again, this stance in the most recent Turkish General Assembly - yesterday (or was it today).

A BBF is, in my opinion, out of the damn question - a no-go area.

[zan]

Kikapu calls it reverse psychology when it is more like reversing the blame and intentions of the "RoC"

Andros

Turkey smiles when it refers to the UN as the solution because they were the ones that F**ked it up in the first place....They were the ones that recognised the Soley GC government in 1964. They are the ones that have not had the guts to pass a resolution that reverses that so that the rightful people of Cyprus regain their places in government. They have no right to pass that guilt an responsibility on to the EU that has the "RoC" and Greece on it's books to, shall we say, aide with the decision.....Why not let the grim reaper decide when you die instead of just turning up when you do

You also keep going on about a tiny bit of land......I am presuming that you mean the 18% that Kifeas keeps going on about....What are you going to do with your master plan if we then demand 50% of the island...Will you go ahead or withdraw your offer of partition?

The very fact that you keep harping on about Turkey and taking the TCs out of the equation shows your mentality towards us. You are using old tricks to work your magic over our heads and win sympathy with the world that it is the bad old Turks that are to blame and you are just doing what good you can out of two evils....What a load of old bull.....The TCs have a voice now mate and your tricks will not work.

[Viewpoint]

Andros you have a great ability to see that agreed partition is the only way to solve this issue once and for all. I have given both sides the opportunity to reunite but neither side has the desire vision or need to compromise in order to unite, we are kidding ourselves and playing games when we get together, the majority of TCs arent event taking thses talks seriously, they are just waiting to hear when they will break down. The only way to conclude this is to agree a clean break by returning land for recognition of the TRNC.

[Bananiot]

I will just change my motto ... here its the new one.

[Bananiot]

Andros wrote

Know matter what we, Greek Cypriots, believe or predict (as I have read in your previous postings) the underlining factor here is the disbanding of the ROC in its place with a United Republic based on Two founding States - this is unfortunately the kind of rubbish President Christofias has agreed to.

You are misinformed Andros. Show us where you saw that Christofias has agreed to what you claim to be a fact.

And, to cut a long story short, partition, agreed or not, is NEVER an option and you better stop even thinking about it.

P.S. Andros does not know any Turkish Cypriots really. Our compatriots have never stopped speaking Cypriot Turkish. I have personal experience, like young Can who asked me the other day "oinalim spastra?" (spelling?). Yarin, I replied and he duly said "Simpdi, tora"




Can with his sister Havva