Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

My friend Halil on another thread reminded us that both he and I share many principles concerning the Cyprus issue , the principles that we both cherish that all Cypriots have an equal right to this island, that all Cypriots have the right to a peaceful and fear free future on this island of ours. We differ on the one issue that might derail current negotiations taking place and that is the fundamental issue of "guarantors"
Halil believes that Turkey is a suitable guarantor and that the majority of T/Cs wish to see Turkey as a guarantor . I do not and I have stated many times in the past that for any agreement to have a chance of being accepted by our people on both sides , the majority from both sides has to endorse such an agreement when presented.
Giving Turkey , a nation that 80% of Cypriots see as an occupying power , a ruthless invader and an abuser of human rights , will never be endorsed by the overwhelming majority of Cypriots. There are suitable and much more "Cyprus friendly" powers not least the UN and Europe who would be impartial and widely accepted by the vast majority of Cypriots. Turkey is the negotiating power here NOT its instrument Talat. A solution that has as its foundation the acceptance of the occupying power as a guarantor will not succeed . We need a solution that is guaranteed by nations whose democratic and human right credentials are recognised internationally , contrary to Turkeys which fail miserably not least her treatment of the Kurdish minority.
A solution must be negotiated but both sides must address each others concerns .
Why on earth dont we re adopt the Zurich agreements , second time round with different perceptives from both sides .

One thing in TC minds no matter what spin is put on it is " Turkey were the only ones that came in our hour of need"...The UN stood and watched as people were butchered.....We have our trust in Turkey despite some problems. There is not a single nation on earth that can fill that role.

[DT.]

My friend Halil on another thread reminded us that both he and I share many principles concerning the Cyprus issue , the principles that we both cherish that all Cypriots have an equal right to this island, that all Cypriots have the right to a peaceful and fear free future on this island of ours. We differ on the one issue that might derail current negotiations taking place and that is the fundamental issue of "guarantors"
Halil believes that Turkey is a suitable guarantor and that the majority of T/Cs wish to see Turkey as a guarantor . I do not and I have stated many times in the past that for any agreement to have a chance of being accepted by our people on both sides , the majority from both sides has to endorse such an agreement when presented.
Giving Turkey , a nation that 80% of Cypriots see as an occupying power , a ruthless invader and an abuser of human rights , will never be endorsed by the overwhelming majority of Cypriots. There are suitable and much more "Cyprus friendly" powers not least the UN and Europe who would be impartial and widely accepted by the vast majority of Cypriots. Turkey is the negotiating power here NOT its instrument Talat. A solution that has as its foundation the acceptance of the occupying power as a guarantor will not succeed . We need a solution that is guaranteed by nations whose democratic and human right credentials are recognised internationally , contrary to Turkeys which fail miserably not least her treatment of the Kurdish minority.
A solution must be negotiated but both sides must address each others concerns .
Why on earth dont we re adopt the Zurich agreements , second time round with different perceptives from both sides .

One thing in TC minds no matter what spin is put on it is " Turkey were the only ones that came in our hour of need"...The UN stood and watched as people were butchered.....We have our trust in Turkey despite some problems. There is not a single nation on earth that can fill that role.

Thank God!

[zan]

My friend Halil on another thread reminded us that both he and I share many principles concerning the Cyprus issue , the principles that we both cherish that all Cypriots have an equal right to this island, that all Cypriots have the right to a peaceful and fear free future on this island of ours. We differ on the one issue that might derail current negotiations taking place and that is the fundamental issue of "guarantors"
Halil believes that Turkey is a suitable guarantor and that the majority of T/Cs wish to see Turkey as a guarantor . I do not and I have stated many times in the past that for any agreement to have a chance of being accepted by our people on both sides , the majority from both sides has to endorse such an agreement when presented.
Giving Turkey , a nation that 80% of Cypriots see as an occupying power , a ruthless invader and an abuser of human rights , will never be endorsed by the overwhelming majority of Cypriots. There are suitable and much more "Cyprus friendly" powers not least the UN and Europe who would be impartial and widely accepted by the vast majority of Cypriots. Turkey is the negotiating power here NOT its instrument Talat. A solution that has as its foundation the acceptance of the occupying power as a guarantor will not succeed . We need a solution that is guaranteed by nations whose democratic and human right credentials are recognised internationally , contrary to Turkeys which fail miserably not least her treatment of the Kurdish minority.
A solution must be negotiated but both sides must address each others concerns .
Why on earth dont we re adopt the Zurich agreements , second time round with different perceptives from both sides .

One thing in TC minds no matter what spin is put on it is " Turkey were the only ones that came in our hour of need"...The UN stood and watched as people were butchered.....We have our trust in Turkey despite some problems. There is not a single nation on earth that can fill that role.

Thank God!

Welcomed!!!!

[Kifeas]

If worst comes to worst and nothing is acheived through negotiation, the TC's can hold a referendum and join the republic of Turkey and the GC's are powerless to stop this. When all is done and dusted with this credit crisis, the EU will be very unattractive to Turkey, therefore the only carrot for Turkey will become a stone.

Since you seem to believe that it is that simple, and it only requires for the TCs to hold a referendum and join Turkey, then why don't you do it already, and instead you "waste" your time for 35 years to reach a negotiated solution with the GCs (the ones who are anyway unable and powerless to stop your joining with Turkey?) Why didn't you go ahead already, and why you don't you do it now? Is it because the majority of the Turkish "Cypriots" in the occupied north are "dieing" for re-unification with the Greek Cypriots?

My second question is, what will be the difference between a referendum by the Turkish "Cypriots" in the north, and the "declaration" of the "TRNC" as an "independed state" back in 1983, which was also “ratified” by the so-called Turkish "Cypriot" parliament? Why hasn't the later bring any fruits, after so many years, and the "referendum" will bring?

To be honest, I feel I just wasted my time replying to your post, because by the looks of it you must be a particularly ignorant fellow that knows nothing else, other than shouting foolish, immaterial and wishful thinking slogans around. A bit like a second Zan in here!

[zan]

If worst comes to worst and nothing is acheived through negotiation, the TC's can hold a referendum and join the republic of Turkey and the GC's are powerless to stop this. When all is done and dusted with this credit crisis, the EU will be very unattractive to Turkey, therefore the only carrot for Turkey will become a stone.

Since you seem to believe that it is that simple, and it only requires for the TCs to hold a referendum and join Turkey, then why don't you do it already, and instead you "waste" your time for 35 years to reach a negotiated solution with the GCs (the ones who are anyway unable and powerless to stop your joining with Turkey?) Why didn't you go ahead already, and why you don't you do it now? Is it because the majority of the Turkish "Cypriots" in the occupied north are "dyeing" for re-unification with the Greek Cypriots?

My second question is, what will be the difference between a referendum by the Turkish "Cypriots" in the north, and the "declaration" of the "TRNC" as an "independed state" back in 1983, which was also “ratified” by the so-called Turkish "Cypriot" parliament? Why hasn't the later bring any fruits, after so many years, and the "referendum" will bring?

To be honest, I feel I just wasted my time replying to your post, because by the looks of it you must be a particularly ignorant fellow that knows nothing else, other than shouting foolish, immaterial and wishful thinking slogans around. A bit like a second Zan in here!

Again...A man that has all the words needed to put together sentences and the relevant information, but no idea what it all means.....

One word Kifeas...Just one word explains your questions......HOPE!!!!!




Fast running out though......

[Nikitas]

The north joining Turkey has an antidote, the south joining Greece. And Ecevit said this prospect is a nightmare because it would legally make Greece a Midddle Eastern power.

You should read your "wise men" before spouting these big ideas.

[Andros]

Cem,

I am sure the administrators of this website can settle Oracle's fears!

I definitely a Greek Cypriot, never Turkish - regardless of how much people strongly believe in my views for wanting partition of some kind. I believe Partition is now the lesser evil, and the sooner my people believe this, the sooner Turkey can leave the island. I would prefer two Cypriot states as opposed to one State with a so-called Turkish Guarantee!!! Know what I mean?

I'm not saying that I hate anything Turkish from Turkey, but when it comes to Cyprus, it's about time Turkey left it alone and the only realistic way I see that happening is for us (Greek Cypriots) to call Turkey's bluff and agree to Partition (like soo many other EU states in the past) but on our Terms.

I strongly believe, espeically after President Christofias' and Talat's meetings that a federation idea and agreement by our former President Makarios was a very bad mistake. They must have caught him off guard.

As for anything to do with an Annan Plan idea of two inter-component or Constituent states, I think it's all a Turkish scam in order for Turkey to "One Day" gain control of the entire island. Just imagine Turkey entering the EU one day with a United Republic of Cyprus! How do think Turkey will act?

I know that Turkey will immediately over-populate the island with the New Legal Turkish "EU" settlers and then force a national election of the island with a "Turkish" majority!

As soon as our people see the future, the quicker we will be able to protect what is left of the Republic of Cyprus, perhaps even gaining more land in a two republic deal - OUR WAY!

Sorry for my harsh views - but enough is enough.

I am ready to battle any of my Greek Cypriot brothers and Sisters on this issue, where, if I can not win their backing with words, I hope I do not win after it is too late!

Regards,
Andros

[Kikapu]

Cem,

I am sure the administrators of this website can settle Oracle's fears!

I definitely a Greek Cypriot, never Turkish - regardless of how much people strongly believe in my views for wanting partition of some kind. I believe Partition is now the lesser evil, and the sooner my people believe this, the sooner Turkey can leave the island. I would prefer two Cypriot states as opposed to one State with a so-called Turkish Guarantee!!! Know what I mean?

I'm not saying that I hate anything Turkish from Turkey, but when it comes to Cyprus, it's about time Turkey left it alone and the only realistic way I see that happening is for us (Greek Cypriots) to call Turkey's bluff and agree to Partition (like soo many other EU states in the past) but on our Terms.

I strongly believe, espeically after President Christofias' and Talat's meetings that a federation idea and agreement by our former President Makarios was a very bad mistake. They must have caught him off guard.

As for anything to do with an Annan Plan idea of two inter-component or Constituent states, I think it's all a Turkish scam in order for Turkey to "One Day" gain control of the entire island. Just imagine Turkey entering the EU one day with a United Republic of Cyprus! How do think Turkey will act?

I know that Turkey will immediately over-populate the island with the New Legal Turkish "EU" settlers and then force a national election of the island with a "Turkish" majority!

As soon as our people see the future, the quicker we will be able to protect what is left of the Republic of Cyprus, perhaps even gaining more land in a two republic deal - OUR WAY!

Sorry for my harsh views - but enough is enough.

I am ready to battle any of my Greek Cypriot brothers and Sisters on this issue, where, if I can not win their backing with words, I hope I do not win after it is too late!

Regards,
Andros

Why would Turkey would leave the island, if there were a legal partition Andros.?? Surely, the reverse would happen, since their presence would be legitimized by the TC's in the north by not being able to say NO to Turkey. If the north was also in the EU, then Turkey would pull the strings in the EU trough the north to bring the EU to a standstill, unless Turkey is admitted into the EU. Then once Turkey is in the EU, then they can now legally flood into the south, something which you have shown some concerns in your above post. In order for the latter not becoming a reality, the north cannot be in the EU as a seperate state, but only under a True Federation in the new RoC. I do not believe, the EU will ever permit the "trnc" to become a sovereign state in the EU, because rather than admitting 100,000 True TC's into the Union, that number will become 80 million Fake TC's by giving duel citizenship's to all the Turks in Turkey, and you are back to square one again, as far as having your fears of the Turks flooding the south.. Be careful what you ask for when you ask for legal partition, because you may not like the results that may come with it, because the only way the north will agree to a legal partition, even if it meant giving substantial land back, that they should be allowed to become a full EU member.

Again, the EU will not allow the north into the EU for the reasons I have given above, therefore the TC's will not ask for a legal partition, because there will be absolute no benefit for them at all, to do so. The TC's can serve Turkey much better by being on the "inside" of the RoC and not outside. Why do think the Annan Plan is always brought up by the Talat to be accepted as a means for a "solution" and not the True Federation. True Federation will only server the purpose for the TC's but not for Turkey, hence the reason why it is being rejected by puppet Talat. There is absolutely nothing wrong with accepting True Federation for the TC's to live in a Democratic country, but this will not serve the interest of Turkey, because it will leave them outside the EU's inner circles without any influence. An EU member "trnc" will be the Trojan Horse" for Turkey in the EU. Somehow, that element of surprised has already been done and that the EU will not fall for it by allowing 100,000 harmless TC's into the Union.!! The concerns will be, what will come after the "trnc" is in the EU.!!

[Tim Drayton]

[...]
I know that Turkey will immediately over-populate the island with the New Legal Turkish "EU" settlers and then force a national election of the island with a "Turkish" majority!
[...]

Regards,
Andros

Under EU regulations, EU citizens who reside in another EU member state of which they are not citizens are entitled to vote in local elections and EU elections, but not national elections. Relax, the scenario you have described cannot happen.

[T_C]

You're a little too late Andros, there almost IS a Turkish majority in Cyprus.

When you add up the TCs, the workers, the illegal workers, the soldiers, students, then consider majority of them came with their families, theres estimated to be more than 600.000 Turks in the north.....and counting....