Cyprus-Forum.com

[CopperLine]

No, GR, it is not that Paphitis/Piratis are GCs which is the issue. The issue is that the position that they represent is that of dinosaurs. Many/most GCs do not share their ways.

That plodding dinosaurs became extinct to be superceded by quick witted mammals was rather the point of the metaphor !

That's very interesting. Thanks very much for calling me a dinosaur btw.

In Australia, there are over 200,000 GCs, and you would be hard pressed in finding any positive spin about these talks.

But, then again, in Australia we are kind of spoilt. We have complete freedom of movement, freedom of the press, democratic equality, and equal opportunity for all. This is exactly what we want Cyprus to have as well. And this is what you are trying to deny Cyprus.

So thanks for calling us dinosaurs. I know that your cagey response is to avoid answering my question. And that is because you have no answer.

In case you wish to prove me wrong, I will ask you again:

What is in it for us?

BTW, I wonder if anyone can help me? What do Cypriot Citizens have to do in order to obtain a Cypriot Voting Card? If we obtain a voting card, will it be possible to fly to Cyprus and vote in the Referendum?

Paphitis
I don't understand you or your style. What's the point of writing ?

I know that your cagey response is to avoid answering my question. And that is because you have no answer.

If you already know what I think, why I think it and what I'm going to say, why bother asking the effing question.

The truth is that everything you just wrote is pure and unfounded speculation about my thoughts or beliefs. I have never written - because I don't believe it - that Cyprus should be denied freedom etc. You just made that up ... again.

In that regard you reflect a common strategy amongst several posters on this forum : you set up straw figures just so you can knock them down. A tedious and fruitless exercise if ever there was one. So the most common reason for me not responding to this kind of thing is that I just can't be arsed to waste time with non-questions and closed minds.

[Paphitis]

No, GR, it is not that Paphitis/Piratis are GCs which is the issue. The issue is that the position that they represent is that of dinosaurs. Many/most GCs do not share their ways.

That plodding dinosaurs became extinct to be superceded by quick witted mammals was rather the point of the metaphor !

That's very interesting. Thanks very much for calling me a dinosaur btw.

In Australia, there are over 200,000 GCs, and you would be hard pressed in finding any positive spin about these talks.

But, then again, in Australia we are kind of spoilt. We have complete freedom of movement, freedom of the press, democratic equality, and equal opportunity for all. This is exactly what we want Cyprus to have as well. And this is what you are trying to deny Cyprus.

So thanks for calling us dinosaurs. I know that your cagey response is to avoid answering my question. And that is because you have no answer.

In case you wish to prove me wrong, I will ask you again:

What is in it for us?

BTW, I wonder if anyone can help me? What do Cypriot Citizens have to do in order to obtain a Cypriot Voting Card? If we obtain a voting card, will it be possible to fly to Cyprus and vote in the Referendum?

Paphitis
I don't understand you or your style. What's the point of writing ?

I know that your cagey response is to avoid answering my question. And that is because you have no answer.

If you already know what I think, why I think it and what I'm going to say, why bother asking the effing question.

The truth is that everything you just wrote is pure and unfounded speculation about my thoughts or beliefs. I have never written - because I don't believe it - that Cyprus should be denied freedom etc. You just made that up ... again.

In that regard you reflect a common strategy amongst several posters on this forum : you set up straw figures just so you can knock them down. A tedious and fruitless exercise if ever there was one. So the most common reason for me not responding to this kind of thing is that I just can't be arsed to waste time with non-questions and closed minds.

I asked you a simple question? I did not put any words in your mouth but merely portrayed my personal anxiety and concern over what is going on. You dismiss these concerns, stating that I have a closed mind.

Well why don't you try and broaden my mind by answering my question?

[CopperLine]

What is in it for us?

By which I take you to mean GCs ("us"), though you do not know whether I'm also a GC and therefore one of your "us".

That aside, what is in it for GCs, is that through negotiations - not wishful thinking, not juvenile militarist machismo - with either T or TRNC, the impasse of 34 years could be broken. Either the return 'home', restitution, or the agreement of compensation could be negotiated. The island could be reunified. There's a lot in it for "us".

But this has to be negotiated. Either 'side' will not get all that it wants. Either side might have to give up, in whole or part, something it once held precious. That's the nature of negotiated settlements. If these current negotiations fail or otherwise come to nothing, what's in it for "us", is another generation of division, trauma, and dispossession. It's not rocket science.

[DT.]

What is in it for us?

By which I take you to mean GCs ("us"), though you do not know whether I'm also a GC and therefore one of your "us".

That aside, what is in it for GCs, is that through negotiations - not wishful thinking, not juvenile militarist machismo - with either T or TRNC, the impasse of 34 years could be broken. Either the return 'home', restitution, or the agreement of compensation could be negotiated. The island could be reunified. There's a lot in it for "us".

But this has to be negotiated. Either 'side' will not get all that it wants. Either side might have to give up, in whole or part, something it once held precious. That's the nature of negotiated settlements. If these current negotiations fail or otherwise come to nothing, what's in it for "us", is another generation of division, trauma, and dispossession. It's not rocket science.

So your answer if that we'll get some property bakc or compensation? Thats whats in it for the GC's?

[Paphitis]

What is in it for us?

By which I take you to mean GCs ("us"), though you do not know whether I'm also a GC and therefore one of your "us".

That aside, what is in it for GCs, is that through negotiations - not wishful thinking, not juvenile militarist machismo - with either T or TRNC, the impasse of 34 years could be broken. Either the return 'home', restitution, or the agreement of compensation could be negotiated. The island could be reunified. There's a lot in it for "us".

But this has to be negotiated. Either 'side' will not get all that it wants. Either side might have to give up, in whole or part, something it once held precious. That's the nature of negotiated settlements. If these current negotiations fail or otherwise come to nothing, what's in it for "us", is another generation of division, trauma, and dispossession. It's not rocket science.

And for that you want us to sign over 30% of the island. You will be in total control of the north, whilst having veto powers in the Federal Parliament.

You must think we are crazy!

[CopperLine]

DT,
Not limited to those things. They're just examples, and not insignificant. More importantly what could be secured through a different strategy ?

If you don't negotiate, what do you do ?
Fight ? With what ?
Wait for T. to change its mind ? For how long ?

What, exactly, is so terrible about negotiating ?

[Paphitis]

DT,
Not limited to those things. They're just examples, and not insignificant. More importantly what could be secured through a different strategy ?

If you don't negotiate, what do you do ?
Fight ? With what ?
Wait for T. to change its mind ? For how long ?

What, exactly, is so terrible about negotiating ?

These are not negotiations.

All we see are Turkish demands and our idiot President making stupid concessions.

Do you honestly think that such a solution is to receive popular support?

[DT.]

DT,
Not limited to those things. They're just examples, and not insignificant. More importantly what could be secured through a different strategy ?

If you don't negotiate, what do you do ?
Fight ? With what ?
Wait for T. to change its mind ? For how long ?

What, exactly, is so terrible about negotiating ?

I think the point being made to you is that once the concessions outweigh the rewards then the GC's will find it better to reject it again.

The question now is that it is starting to seem like we are going through the same process again. Will the GC's place the idea of unification of their country above all practical realities on the ground? Or will they reject it because they've actually weighed up the pro's and con's again.

[Viewpoint]

Then why doesnt your leader say they are not able to reach any agreement and back out, preparing for the fallout. Both sides have a lot to lose if these talks breakdown.

[Paphitis]

Then why doesnt your leader say they are not able to reach any agreement and back out, preparing for the fallout. Both sides have a lot to lose if these talks breakdown.

Is that what you want him to do?