Cyprus-Forum.com

[bill cobbett]

What the f*c* do we mean by a Bi-zonal, Bi-Communal Federation ?

Well having trawled the web for a few hours, I can't really figure it out so I must ask the fonts of all wisdom that are the members of this Forum for some answers.

Here's a few points members may wish to start on.

BBF first surfaced in the 1977 discussions between the late St Mak (May he Rest in Peace) and Donktosh (May he soon Rest in Peace).

"Federation" according to this bit in wiki:-

"A federation (Latin: foedus, covenant) is a union comprising a number of partially self-governing states or regions united by a central ("federal") government. In a federation, the self-governing status of the component states is typically constitutionally entrenched and may not be altered by a unilateral decision of the central government."

This seems to conflict with the other notion under "discussion", that of the "unitary state", again from wiki....

"It is often part of the philosophy of a unitary state that, regardless of the actual status of any of its parts, its entire territory constitutes a single sovereign entity or nation-state, and that by virtue of this the central government exercises sovereignty over the whole territory as of right. In a federation, on the other hand, sovereignty is often regarded as residing notionally in the component states, or as being shared between these states and the central government."

Bi-Communal

The most recent establishment of a post-conflict bi-communal federation that I have found is the example of the (FY) Republic of Macedonia which with its similar to CY population of one million of which 20% are the minority ethnic Albanians.

In the (FY) Macedonia example, power sharing seems to be achieved by an election process in which political parties, which are split along ethnic lines, submit lists of candidates for a large number of subsidiary administrative units which is a contrast to the CY BBF proposals which are based on two constituent states, rotating presidencies and percentage quotas in power sharing. Minority Rights seem to be enforced in (FY) Macedonia by the articles in its Constitution.

Bi-zonal
Well that would seem to be the easy one to answer - two areas albeit where both areas to a greater or lesser degree based on other people's lands.

Now take all three together - BBF - and I can't find an appropriate (by which I mean post-conflict) example anywhere else where this happens. Perhaps others might advise.

Or

Am I making a mistake by looking at each one B , B , F seperately and perhaps ought to look at all three combined in this new for the world experiment and look for the devil in the details of an overall BBF?

[Piratis]

The term is a vague one and there is no example of such kind of arrangement anywhere.

Basically it means a Federation (F) made up by 2 states (fist B) and two communities (second B).

It doesn't say how strong the federation should be (although there is a limit of how weak it can be, otherwise it becomes a confederation), it doesn't say how big each state should be and it doesn't say anything about the thousands of other things that should be arranged.

By itself BBF means nothing. What matters is the exact content of the agreement proposal that is labeled as "BBF".

There are many arrangements labeled as "BBF" that can be acceptable, or even desirable, and many others that are not acceptable. It all depends on the content.

[Oracle]

Oh please ... Can't we just do what Piratis usually suggests ... one man-one vote, true Democracy ... nice and simple ... all equal!

[Piratis]

Oh please ... Can't we just do what Piratis usually suggests ... one man-one vote, true Democracy ... nice and simple ... all equal!

That of course would be the most fair.

The TCs want a BBF which:

1) Is a super weak kind of federation, so weak that it is even weaker than the Swiss confederation, practically the partition they always wanted.

2) Where in the land distribution they get 11% more than what they own for the state they will run.

If we just reverse the above two elements, and make the federation super strong, where the central goverment is elected directly by all citizens and has most of the authority while the states handle just some internal minor issues, and the state that GCs run is 11% more than the land owned by GCs (82+11=93%), and all the other issues not related with BBF are again arranged to our liking, then I can guarantee you that such BBF will be overwhelmingly approved by GCs and rejected by TCs.

The TCs would accept a BBF that suits them, and we would accept a BBF that suits us.

[Get Real!]

Re: What's a BBF?

Really good stuff...

http://bbf.openwetware.org/

[zan]

Oh please ... Can't we just do what Piratis usually suggests ... one man-one vote, true Democracy ... nice and simple ... all equal!

That of course would be the most fair.

The TCs want a BBF which:

1) Is a super weak kind of federation, so weak that it is even weaker than the Swiss confederation, practically the partition they always wanted.

2) Where in the land distribution they get 11% more than what they own for the state they will run.

If we just reverse the above two elements, and make the federation super strong, where the central goverment is elected directly by all citizens and has most of the authority while the states handle just some internal minor issues, and the state that GCs run is 11% more than the land owned by GCs (82+11=93%), and all the other issues not related with BBF are again arranged to our liking, then I can guarantee you that such BBF will be overwhelmingly approved by GCs and rejected by TCs.

The TCs would accept a BBF that suits them, and we would accept a BBF that suits us.

One sum is a viable land mass in which a people can survive and the other is greed beyond compare. Grow up Piratis.


(Waits for childish reversal of what I actually said) tick tick tickkkkk

[Piratis]

I don't make childish remarks Zan, only you do.

People can survive (and even prosper) in much less land (e.g. Monaco, Singapore etc). So your argument is false.

About greed, you are the ones who are the masters in it. You are the 18% and still you greedily demand 30% of land. So why shouldn't we do the same?

The fair of course would be 18% - 82%, but since you are greedy and you demand more for yourselves, then we shall do the same.

[Bananiot]

BBF is what we agreed, since 1975, would be the solution of the Cyprus issue. It is either BBF or partition. There is no other way about it. It is worth noting that many of those that object to BBF are the same persons that are responsible for the present day predicament.

[RichardB]

Re: What's a BBF?

Really good stuff...

http://bbf.openwetware.org/

Oh yes brilliant..but how many will get it??

[DT.]

BBF is what we agreed, since 1975, would be the solution of the Cyprus issue. It is either BBF or partition. There is no other way about it. It is worth noting that many of those that object to BBF are the same persons that are responsible for the present day predicament.

so EDEK were a bunch of coupists then?