Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

It seems clear that NOONE knows what form this BBF is going to take and the VARIOUS examples around the world show that there is blueprint of one. We alone can decide the shape of our very own unique BBF that is fair to all taking into account history and fears. Kifeas seems to think that no matter what happens the TCs should lose and the GCs win. That is why talks are going on and I hope that those involved are ready to listen to reason and stop this nonsensical idea that that because the TC people are 18% that is all they deserve....The very fact that he says that the GCs have no chance of becoming a majority in such a small space tells you how he thinks iin that he has not thought about where we are supposed to expand to in numbers in our own right. Another fool with enclaves on his mind and the continuation of the siege that started in 1963. He wants to pack us into an area like animals because that is what he thinks we are. As I have said before...A man with all the information but with no idea how they all fit together.

[roseandchan]

if e.u policys are kept to, i don't see anyone becoming a minority. the freedom of movement won't just apply to gc's to live in the north. but any european person who wishes to as well. in the south you have seen an influx of different nationalities, the north needs to prepare for this.

[Kikapu]

Kifeas,

We are the only case where federation was defined a priori to be Bizonal and Bicommunal, implying separation along geographic and ethnic lines. The duality is absent from other federations. It was clear to me from day one of this idea, back in the 70s that it would be nothing more than a way of introducing a civilised form of partition. The Annan plan with its controlled residence proportions and property settlement confirmed it.

Now if we are talking American style federation, that is a whole different thing. So is the Swiss system and others. The similarities are very few between those and BBF.

I neither like nor approve of BBF. I just state its nature as they are serving it to us. There are people, in the media and on this forum, who are letting the naive suppose that BBF is something like the American system. To quote a Greek proverb, "alli mou deixes kai alli mou mpixes" the one you showed me is not the one you stuck me with, it seems to fit the situation.

I think the easy answer to solve the BBF problem will be as Kifeas suggested, which is to draw the lines on a 82-18 ratio so that as few GC's will be in that "TC Zone as possible, because, if the TC's interpret BBF as a "political exclusive zone" only for TC's in the north, then there is no point forming any kind of "partnership, since any GC's who may live in this "TC Zone" will be paying taxes without representation. There will be two choices to make. Either those GC's living and working in this "TC Zone" will be excluded from paying any taxes at all, from income to property, to VAT. If the "GC Zone " is going to represent them, then all their Taxes should go to the "GC Zone". Second will be to have an official partition again based on the 82-18% ratio, because if the "TC Zone" will be able to at some point push for independence again, and all the GC's living in the "TC Zone" will once again face expulsion. Given the two options, I would go for the second and then have permanent borders between EU and Asia. Some even suggested a 10 meter wall between the two sides. Because, once the "TC Zone" becomes part of the EU and then decides to become independent, the north will be able to make all 80 million Turks from Turkey "Dual Citizens" with the new independent TRNC, and then you really going to have a mess in your hands.

[zan]

if e.u policys are kept to, i don't see anyone becoming a minority. the freedom of movement won't just apply to gc's to live in the north. but any european person who wishes to as well. in the south you have seen an influx of different nationalities, the north needs to prepare for this.

I saw many people of different nationalities in the TRNC roseandchan do you not????

The point about the South having this influx is what annoys me...They want to get rid of people that are already there and replace them with Blatant racism if you ask me.


What about France and Italy not only stopping people coming in but have started deporting people that they see as UNFIT. I really don't get this idea that we are allowed to move anywhere we like...

[Nikitas]

EU ciitizens have the right of movement and establishment in the EU. Voting rights are left out of this right, and are up to individual states to decide whether to grant them or not. Simple notion. What is hard to understand?

The objection to settlers is that they become citizens and get the relevant rights, including the right to vote.

[zan]

EU ciitizens have the right of movement and establishment in the EU. Voting rights are left out of this right, and are up to individual states to decide whether to grant them or not. Simple notion. What is hard to understand?

The objection to settlers is that they become citizens and get the relevant rights, including the right to vote.

Tell that to Kifeas......GCs can live in our state and not have the right to vote>>>>>>>

[Nikitas]

"stop this nonsensical idea that that because the TC people are 18% that is all they deserve"

which automatically raises the question of what ALL the other communities that make up the 82 per cent deserve and why should they be limited to 82 per cent.

Istanbul is a city and hosts 14 million people with plenty of industry and economic activity to support them and much of the economy. Two hundred thousand people can easily fit in the 18 per cent of Cyprus and have room to spare. That many lived there before 1974 and were getting on just fine.

Kifeas puts forth a simple and intelligent proposal, that the area is first proportional to population, and secondly it limits the number of GCs that will have a legitimate reason to live there without resorting to artifical limitations. It is a way to avoid most if not all of the properties issue.

[Kikapu]

EU ciitizens have the right of movement and establishment in the EU. Voting rights are left out of this right, and are up to individual states to decide whether to grant them or not. Simple notion. What is hard to understand?

The objection to settlers is that they become citizens and get the relevant rights, including the right to vote.

Tell that to Kifeas......GCs can live in our state and not have the right to vote>>>>>>>

Nikitas's definition of a state = country, and not a state within a country. Huge difference.!

[Nikitas]

Precisely Kikapu,

And if there is going to be a division of voting along ethnic lines we must then question the meaning of one svoreignty and one nationality.

[zan]

"stop this nonsensical idea that that because the TC people are 18% that is all they deserve"

which automatically raises the question of what ALL the other communities that make up the 82 per cent deserve and why should they be limited to 82 per cent.

Istanbul is a city and hosts 14 million people with plenty of industry and economic activity to support them and much of the economy. Two hundred thousand people can easily fit in the 18 per cent of Cyprus and have room to spare. That many lived there before 1974 and were getting on just fine.

Kifeas puts forth a simple and intelligent proposal, that the area is first proportional to population, and secondly it limits the number of GCs that will have a legitimate reason to live there without resorting to artifical limitations. It is a way to avoid most if not all of the properties issue.

Does it tackle all the farming issues?? How about Tourism??

This is not just about living space but of commercial space. We are not a race of Billionaires to have a playground for the rich like Monaco for example. We do not want to be just a reserve where the tourist come to buy our locally produced arts and crafts...We need to be commercially viable not just rent an apartment from you in our own country.