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The future of TCs.

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Paphitis » Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:46 pm

Agios Ionas wrote:A new war is the last thing this island is in need of. The scars of yesteryear can and will heal eventually although it will take a long time. The 34 years of no solution is proof enough that time is needed badly. But a new war will open an ugly bleeding wound that won't heal in a foreseeable future. New generations will be poisoned by hate and violence, not in the form of tales of the past, but rather first hand experience. Enough people have suffered already, and many are still suffering. I mean, seriously, who the f*ck cares about a plot of land if you've lost your child to a bomb or bullet? It doesn't matter if that plot of land is worth £5 million. The lives of your children has no price tag!

As much as I want Turkish forces out of Cyprus and a reunited island where GC and TC can co-exist peacefully and equally I would never call for a war. The only war I'd possibly condone would be if GC and TC alike joined forces and tried to expel Turkish forces from the island in order to free Cyprus and give it back to its natural citizens. Still, the price would be very high. Personally, although I have no death wish, I'd be willing to risk my life for something bigger than me. But I would never allow a situation where my family is put to danger. I would engage an entire army on my own if necessary. But I would make sure my wife and children are in a safe place first. Quite frankly, I think the chances of a GC/TC joint effort to fight off Turkey and win are less than Turkey collapsing on her own one day. So I guess it's better to wait and watch her destroy herself than to challenge her and end up with Cyprus being 100% Turkish. The Cypriots (GC/TC) surviving would be in for a very hard time. Because Turkey would oppress and punish as if there was no tomorrow.

A new war would ruin the whole of Cyprus for a very long period, long enough for us, our children and grandchildren to be miserable for our entire lives. A new war would cause instability in the whole EU. Forget about a flourishing tourist business for a considerable amount of years. It will take much longer than it did last time to achieve some kind of trustworthy stability to allow for the "outer world" to want to do business with and visit Cyprus.

Some people keep harping about the Ottoman connection and seem stuck in 1571. +400 years is a long time, no one of us were existing back then. I would say that if your family have been in a country for that long, you belong in said country. No matter if you're a descendant of an invader. Anyone must admit that +400 years down the line the descendants are hardly responsible of what their ancestors did. We can hardly choose where to be born and by whom.

We can keep blaming people for what they did 34 years ago because it's still quite recent and people involved in the atrocities are still alive. But +400 years ago? Come on, somewhere a line must be drawn and some things must be considered history. I mean, where would the UK be if people were still fighting about who's Saxon and Norman?

What are you people asking for war thinking? It's enough suffering in the world already. Why are you so keen on bringing it on your own doorstep? Cyprus is in need of peace, not war.


Why don't you have another guess??

You could hardly miss it.
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Postby DT. » Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:46 pm

zan wrote:I know Tpap writes GR's little speeches but who is pulling this guys strings... :roll:



Wouldn't you like to know.
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Postby zan » Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:48 pm

Agios Ionas wrote:A new war is the last thing this island is in need of. The scars of yesteryear can and will heal eventually although it will take a long time. The 34 years of no solution is proof enough that time is needed badly. But a new war will open an ugly bleeding wound that won't heal in a foreseeable future. New generations will be poisoned by hate and violence, not in the form of tales of the past, but rather first hand experience. Enough people have suffered already, and many are still suffering. I mean, seriously, who the f*ck cares about a plot of land if you've lost your child to a bomb or bullet? It doesn't matter if that plot of land is worth £5 million. The lives of your children has no price tag!

As much as I want Turkish forces out of Cyprus and a reunited island where GC and TC can co-exist peacefully and equally I would never call for a war. The only war I'd possibly condone would be if GC and TC alike joined forces and tried to expel Turkish forces from the island in order to free Cyprus and give it back to its natural citizens. Still, the price would be very high. Personally, although I have no death wish, I'd be willing to risk my life for something bigger than me. But I would never allow a situation where my family is put to danger. I would engage an entire army on my own if necessary. But I would make sure my wife and children are in a safe place first. Quite frankly, I think the chances of a GC/TC joint effort to fight off Turkey and win are less than Turkey collapsing on her own one day. So I guess it's better to wait and watch her destroy herself than to challenge her and end up with Cyprus being 100% Turkish. The Cypriots (GC/TC) surviving would be in for a very hard time. Because Turkey would oppress and punish as if there was no tomorrow.

A new war would ruin the whole of Cyprus for a very long period, long enough for us, our children and grandchildren to be miserable for our entire lives. A new war would cause instability in the whole EU. Forget about a flourishing tourist business for a considerable amount of years. It will take much longer than it did last time to achieve some kind of trustworthy stability to allow for the "outer world" to want to do business with and visit Cyprus.

Some people keep harping about the Ottoman connection and seem stuck in 1571. +400 years is a long time, no one of us were existing back then. I would say that if your family have been in a country for that long, you belong in said country. No matter if you're a descendant of an invader. Anyone must admit that +400 years down the line the descendants are hardly responsible of what their ancestors did. We can hardly choose where to be born and by whom.

We can keep blaming people for what they did 34 years ago because it's still quite recent and people involved in the atrocities are still alive. But +400 years ago? Come on, somewhere a line must be drawn and some things must be considered history. I mean, where would the UK be if people were still fighting about who's Saxon and Norman?

What are you people asking for war thinking? It's enough suffering in the world already. Why are you so keen on bringing it on your own doorstep? Cyprus is in need of peace, not war.



Well it's a bravo from me on the sentiment of that mate :D :D :D :D :D
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Postby zan » Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:50 pm

DT. wrote:
zan wrote:I know Tpap writes GR's little speeches but who is pulling this guys strings... :roll:



Wouldn't you like to know.


How many guesses have I got. 8)
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Postby DT. » Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:51 pm

zan wrote:
DT. wrote:
zan wrote:I know Tpap writes GR's little speeches but who is pulling this guys strings... :roll:



Wouldn't you like to know.


How many guesses have I got. 8)


You'll know when you get it right. We'll have to send a man round.
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Postby Paphitis » Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:54 pm

zan wrote:
DT. wrote:
zan wrote:I know Tpap writes GR's little speeches but who is pulling this guys strings... :roll:



Wouldn't you like to know.


How many guesses have I got. 8)


You would never be able to guess.
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Postby zan » Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:54 pm

DT. wrote:
zan wrote:
DT. wrote:
zan wrote:I know Tpap writes GR's little speeches but who is pulling this guys strings... :roll:



Wouldn't you like to know.


How many guesses have I got. 8)


You'll know when you get it right. We'll have to send a man round.


i'll keep guessing while you keep looking for a man.... :wink: :lol:
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Postby Nikitas » Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:40 pm

Paphitis said:

"We are not exactly defenceless, Nikitas."

There is the point, defence is a whole different matter. It is absolutely realistic and feasible to say that the National Guard can hold any Turkish attempt to advance on the south. Holding an advance is victory, judged from a defender's point of view.

Recapturing territoyr means OFFENSIVE action and the task is totally different. An example, can the National Guard obtain the ability to strike at Turkish air bases in Turkey, all bases withn range of Cyprus? Can Cyprus withstand the strategic counter strikes which will happen no matter what?

This is what I was saying in the original post. Nothing is impossible, but everything has a cost. Unlike the TC posters I am not overawed by so called Turkish military power. All armies can be defeated given the right organization and technology. But the cost is vast, and we have to ask if the end goal, removing the Turkish army, can be achieved by other means. I just happen to believe it can. And no I do not mean giving in to any pressure.
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Postby Agios Ionas » Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:46 pm

Nikitas wrote:Unlike the TC posters I am not overawed by so called Turkish military power. All armies can be defeated given the right organization and technology. But the cost is vast, and we have to ask if the end goal, removing the Turkish army, can be achieved by other means. I just happen to believe it can. And no I do not mean giving in to any pressure.


All armies can be defeated one way or another. The Turkish army is not unbeatable. But they're not the "civilised" British army of the 50's. If the National Guard were to engage Turkish military things would be different from when EOKA sought to rid the island of British rule. Everybody remember how barbaric the Turks were 34 years ago. Would they act different today? I don't think so. Turkish bullets and napalm bombs and God knows what would rain over the entire GC population. Non-combatants such as women, children and the elderly would not be spared. What if the Turks couldn't care less about conquering the southern parts? What if they decide to launch a campaign to scorch the south and leave nothing but a burning pile of rubble? The price would be much too dear.

I agree with Nikitas. I believe the goal can be achieved by other means without giving in to pressure. GC and TC deserve to live together in peace under one flag. A Cyprus with one mixed GC/TC (and other minorities) government where political ideals/ideas in the interest of Cyprus/Cypriots set the agenda rather than ethnic background. And I'm still hopeful this will happen sooner than later.
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Postby Kifeas » Wed Sep 17, 2008 7:08 pm

lovernomore wrote:
halil wrote:FULL STOP.


Soryy but you are kidin yes? My wife is Tc. my wife say her Cyprus is not her cyprus anymore. She tels me if she never go back she dont caer. We come back 3 weeks ago from cyprus, she neerly crying saying cyprus is now Turkey. Everywhere settelers, everywher people with no connection to cyprus or cypriots.

sorry Mr halil but it is full stop for you Tcs, you are now turks from Turkey. My wife say even in resturans food dont taste Cypriot, food now taste and made like in turkey.

And one more think my wife say, she say Tc dont know how run country, they dont make deicison everything is from turkey, she say if no setelment with the Gcs and like before living together she will not come back to Cyprus. Very sad.


Lovernomore, if your wife is a TC, then where are you originally from?
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