Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kifeas]

BRAVO KIFEAS:D

You know something Rafaela? I have many (more than 15) TC good friends who live in the north. NONE of them is anywhere near to what some TC members in this forum are. Of course they are concerned about their community's interests. But at the same time they can see and recognise the concerns and interests of the GC community. As far as this particular issue of properties is concerned, they are almost equally upset and opposed to what is happening against GCs interests visa vie their properties. They equally consider it immoral and very damaging for any solution prospect. Some of them are even willing to give information on peoples and names and they morally support legal action.

The majority of TC people in this forum are advocates of exactly the opposite view. They start from the belief that those properties were conquered by the Turkish Army with blood (it was a god’s will, /kismet as they call it) and therefore they are theirs forever and that the Greek Cypriots have no right to claim or say anything regarding these properties. They believe and advocate that the GCs deserved what happened to them and they should only be thankful to Turkey for letting them stay alive in the first place (like you read in Uzan's posting above.) Usually these people belong ideologically to political parties traditionally associated with Denktashism (Serdar's or Eroglou’s parties) although nowadays you may find some of these people in Talat's party too. Actually these are people who shifted from the right wing pro Denktash parties into Talat's party purely for selfish reasons.

That is why I have no moral concern bashing them, because anyway these people do not really care for a solution. They are just pretending. They are ideologically in favour of a pure TC north that will exclude any GC presence. They consciously see the solution as a step stone for a future partition. In a nutshell they are anti-GC almost by nature. Notice how they try to throw the blame on GCs for supposedly not making the TCs trust them. They do not care if the TCs ever trust the GCs, but in-fact they prefer the opposite. They only say this to GCs in order to victimise them and make them feel guilty for the TCs not trusting them, with the sole aim of making and keeping unreasonable demands on the table.

[magikthrill]

That is why I have no moral concern bashing them, because anyway these people do not really care for a solution. They are just pretending. They are ideologically in favour of a pure TC north that will exclude any GC presence. They consciously see the solution as a step stone for a future partition. In a nutshell they are anti-GC almost by nature. Notice how they try to throw the blame on GCs for supposedly not making the TCs trust them. They do not care if the TCs ever trust the GCs, but in-fact they prefer the opposite. They only say this to GCs in order to victimise them and make them feel guilty for the TCs not trusting them with the sole aim of making and keeping unreasonable demands on the table.

Kifeas,

don't you think though the same can be said by TCs. although most TCs on this forum advocate for a bizonal (loose) federation that doens't mean they dont want a solution. don't forget they have a reason do feel betrayed by GCs and think that the only goal of GCs is to politically dominate TCs.

i agree that the property issue is quite a pickle. it is sad that many TCs (including many intelligent posters) don't understand the importance of property or don't think it is wrong to not allow anyone to return to their entitled property. by justifying stolen property TCs at the same time justify the killings of GCs against the TC community.

regardless, as i have been stating although in an ideal world there would be an ideal compromise, if there ever is a solution it will be in favour of TCs and unfortunately no TC will complain for the disadvantaged outcome the GCs will come to. but that is how things turned out...

[RAFAELLA]

Kifeas

If not, the s__t the f__k up and let the people seek their legitimate property rights.

sort of person.Thank you for your civil response, this comment is a true reflection on yourself, Im sure you feel proud obviously you are that

Viewpoint, you are learning everyday about gc.Do you realize now gc dont and wont change.They dont wont us only they wont propertys and goverment.

Kifeas,you should thank TURKEY for saving your life from EOKA, not ungreatfull shame on you.

Uzan, your administration is causing problems all the time.
It is so ridiculous hiding behing excuses like "Greeks don't want us", "Greeks won't change", Greeks do this, Greeks do that...

OF COURSE WE WANT OUR PROPERTIES, WE ARE THE RIGHTFUL AND LEGAL OWENERS OF THE PROPERTIES THAT YOU OCCUPY.
I do not understand why you fail to realise this! What if we start selling your properties to foreigners, would you like that?

Your administration is make anything possible to blame the Gcs, anything.
They ask the Gcs to stop suing people for those illegal sales/purchases, are they insane or what?
Your administration tries to horrify the Tcs who use the free madical care from our hospitals that soon will get a bill regarding the treatment they had or have. Nonsense. They pay one pound for registration only.
Your administration, in cooperation with the turkish government, deliberately arranged for the goods of CYTA to come through the port of Famagusta while Oli Rein was visiting the island. Did you achieve anything? No. Once again you proved to yourselves that your actions are wrong and illegal, you confirmed your illegality once again,I cannot understand how thick you can be.
Did you have the illusion that CYTA would receive the goods through your hands?

As I said before you opened the "borders" and you are falling in your own trap, you cannot close the "borders" now. Unfortunately for you and fortunately for us.
You opened the "borders" and we opened our eyes I thank you for that, now things are much easier for us to sue all those who take advantage of our properties.

Btw, we don't want a government, we have a government
Regarding Turks saving us from EOKA , tell us that you realy believe that!
I thought Turks invaded to save your asses as all of you ridiculously claim, tell us that we should be thankful to the illegal invaders....

[Anglo]

KIFEAS: As for the British high court turning down Orams case execution. Impossible too. They may delay it but they will never turn it down.

This judgement is asking a UK court to go against stated EU/UK public policy - namely that the property issue must be solved within the framework of a comprehensive negotiated settlement.

The above statement of yours shows how little you understand about the functioning of laws in member states and in the E.U. When there are laws regulating issues, the politics (public policy as you say) come second. This is a very basic principle for any democratic state, any E.U. member and the E.U. it self. The public policy of the U.K. is a political desire. Nothing else. The law of the U.K. and the E.U. is a law. And laws are made in order to be observed. In the absence of a solution to the Cyprus problem which will regulate things differently, then what remains and what prevails is the existing legal framework.

Please see Article 22 and in particular Article 34
http://www.eupro.co.uk/docs%20pdf/EU%20 ... cement.pdf

This is article 34

Code: Select all

Article 34
A judgment shall not be recognised:
1. if such recognition is manifestly contrary to public policy
in the Member State in which recognition is sought;

If a judgment is against public policy in the member state in which recognition is sought, it shall not be recognized.
The Support of the U.K. towards a solution on the basis of A-plan is not public policy; it is foreign (state) policy. Public policy is the policy relating to internal affairs of a country.

.

I'm sorry but you are deluding yourself if you think the term "public policy" does not refer to 'government policy' in general. The GC administration is heading down a legal cul-de-sac wittingly or unwittingly.

[magikthrill]

I'm sorry but you are deluding yourself if you think the term "public policy" does not refer to 'government policy' in general. The GC administration is heading down a legal cul-de-sac wittingly or unwittingly.

anglo you are right on this one. the RoC is as delusional in thinking they can actually get property courts cases in validated in the UK as people who think that the properties in northern cyprus are not entitled to their legal owners.

[Anglo]

People with a legal title to their property were entitled to get it back if the majority had voted for the Annan Plan.

[magikthrill]

People with a legal title to their property were entitled to get it back if the majority had voted for the Annan Plan.

um last time i checked it took 3/3 to make a person and not 1/3 ... not sure what Annan plan you're talking about.

[Anglo]

Yes, it was a compromise. If it had been presented as a positive solution in the south who knows what might have happened. But I guess we're raking over old ground here' aren't we?

[magikthrill]

Yes, it was a compromise. If it had been presented as a positive solution in the south who knows what might have happened. But I guess we're raking over old ground here' aren't we?

a compromise on one of the members behalf only. but yes we're raking over old ground as far as old themes are concerned but we've broken new ground as far as your dual personality/ BSing posts are concerned:

personality #1:

People with a legal title to their property were entitled to get it back if the majority had voted for the Annan Plan.

personality #2:

Yes, it was a compromise.

[Viewpoint]

Kifeas

said it to you and I do not regret it, because you make me sick reading your hypocritical rantings all the time.

Feeling is mutual.

You all of suddenly started pouring tones of crocodile tears for the good climate between the two communities which will be spoiled, etc, etc,whereas in reallity, you do not give a damn shit about a solution because your only concern is partition and nothing else.

Appears like a sensative point, you are contradicting yourself, no one is crying because your actions will assist the partition seekers and dont forget when a solution is discussed this can also include recognized partition.

If you really cared about a solution and reunification, you should have been by now outside you presidents office, demonstrating against this unethical looting of your GC "compatriots" properties. In reallity however, you do not give a damn shit about their feelings and rights

Why over the past year GCs hanvent protested outside their leaders offices for a solution that would lead to them getting their properties back???? could it be that you dont really desire a just solution all talk is cheap and you have plenty of that.

Tone down the swearing or I will respond in the same fashion, admin please take note.

RAFAELLA

OF COURSE WE WANT OUR PROPERTIES, WE ARE THE RIGHTFUL AND LEGAL OWENERS OF THE PROPERTIES THAT YOU OCCUPY.

Should have relayed your wishes to your leaders when negotiating Annan 5, they are the ones that can do this for you, why dont you protest in numbers to your administaration to address this issue directly.

They ask the Gcs to stop suing people for those illegal sales/purchases, are they insane or what?

Sue who the hell you want even the flies that land on GC property in the TRNC, but be prepared for the outcome whatever that might be.

As I said before you opened the "borders" and you are falling in your own trap, you cannot close the "borders" now. Unfortunately for you and fortunately for us.
You opened the "borders" and we opened our eyes I thank you for that, now things are much easier for us to sue all those who take advantage of our properties.

Never under estimate the TCs, like 1974, "yavas atin tekmesi sert olur" translation "a slow horses kick is hard"...

Btw, we don't want a government, we have a government

Your "government" is yours to keep nothing to do with us TCs.

Regarding Turks saving us from EOKA , tell us that you realy believe that!
I thought Turks invaded to save your asses as all of you ridiculously claim, tell us that we should be thankful to the illegal invaders....

No invasion and you would now be a part of Greece, remember an ambition called Enosis...Unfortunately for you but fortunately for us the Turkish army invaded and saved our butts (and lives) from the horror of the 1960 and the GC Government..(Read the book the Genocide Files by Harry Scott Gibbons)