Cyprus-Forum.com

[brother]

The point is that turkey is another country, wheras tassos is a cypriot who has all the ingrediants in his hands to make cyprus one.

Tassos with the right statements could win over the tc and unify the island but his, as you suggest to not give the otherside propoganda material, i find a very shallow arguement.

But my distaste in theman does not just stem from the present but his past aswell.

[turkcyp]

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[brother]

I am sorry to say this to you but there is no way TCs will ever trust Tassos. He comes with a very heavy load of baggage of history.

Actually you are right and mine was more wishful thinking, even though i am a very open minded person i still would struggle to trust him as when i look at him i see snake, scorpion etc.

Sorry kifeas but tassos is just not the man to do it, i really hope i am wrong.

[Kifeas]

Kifeas

Tassos strives for a truly independed Cyprus for the Cypriots and not a protectorate province of the UK, Turkey, Greece and the Americans, like it was meant to be under A-plan.

Firstly wake up and see whats in front of you, 1 year down the line and no one is talking I wonder whos to blame?? You can blame Erdogan, Talat, Bush, Blair, Annan all the world leaders, the queens dog but you cant blame Papadop hes so honest truthful understanding sticks to the facts and never ever lies:lol:

"Firstly wake up and see whats in front of you, .."

[Kifeas]

I am sorry to say this to you but there is no way TCs will ever trust Tassos. He comes with a very heavy load of baggage of history.

Actually you are right and mine was more wishful thinking, even though i am a very open minded person i still would struggle to trust him as when i look at him i see snake, scorpion etc.

Sorry kifeas but tassos is just not the man to do it, i really hope i am wrong.

Well! There is nothing else I need to say other than that he is the elected GC leader with over 72% public opinion support in one very resent gallop. This is one of the highest a GC leader and RoC president has ever enjoyed after Makarios. It seems that the International community and the TC /Turkish side have no other alternative than to accept that he is the representative of the GCs and the one they have to deal and /or negotiate with. Therefore, I wander what purpose one will ever serve by constantly discrediting and defaming him, instead of taking the man and his words for they stand at present? The only motive I can personally see behind such an attitute, is someone’s unwillingness to try and work for a solution, hiding behind allegations against Papadopoullos sincerity and genuine agenda.

[turkcyp]

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[Viewpoint]

Kifeas

I have thousands of posts and argued with many and i am still to be convinced when it comes to tassos, i see him like the wolf in sheeps clothing and have no trust at all in him especially after his infamous no tc killed speech, the lies concerning the SG and his one year on failure to sit down to negotiations.


Brother,
I agree that if he said that absolutely no one TC was killed after 1964, when most intercommunal fighting had settled down, then it was definately a lie.

What remains to be examined is whether this was an intentional or an unintentional lie.

Politicians sometimes, especially when carrying foreign contacts or interviews, tend to exaggerate in order to stress a point. Papadopoullos didn't hide the facts in that interview that there was indeed intercommunal violence and many TCs were killed by GC irregulars. However in his effort to stress that this has been put into control after some time and attacks against TCs were reduced to a much less degree, perhaps he was carried unintentionally too far away and said none, in order to stress the point he wanted to make, which was the real fact that after 1964 any similar and massive violent attacks by GC irregulars against TC civilians were reduced to a minimum level. Of course there are the events of Kofinou village in 1967, in which TC civilians were also killed, but this event by itself is an entirely separate chapter, which I once discussed with Gabaston in a different thread. The truth remains that he lied but if what I said above was the real point he wanted to make, then I would call it an unintentional lie.

However, there is an entirely different issue here, which is related to the propaganda that each side used and /or continues to use until this date. I will only touch the issue of the Turkish / TC partitionist propaganda here, although I do not refuse that there was an equivalent GC pro union propaganda. For decades now, the main argument of the Turkish /TC propaganda machine, which was aiming to promote partition and /or recognition of a separate TC state, was that the GCs and TCs cannot live together, cannot coexist and the only period of time in which they were both left alone was the period between 1960-1974 but the end result was mass killings of TCs by the GCs, who hate them and their (GCs) only aim is to annihilate them (TCs) and make Cyprus a Greek Island.
This propaganda continues to be used even up to this moment by those forces within the TC community and in Turkey who do not favor reunification and want to convince the outside world that the only solution is that of partition. Not very long ago, Denktash has used, yet again, exactly the same verbose.

Under this climate and circumstances, tell me which GC politician who is trying to reunite his country and obstruct the partitionist plans of the fanatics of the other side, would ever dare say, especially in a foreign media, that indeed the GCs were continually killing the TCs up until 1974 when Turkey invaded. Wouldn’t this be a golden chance for the propaganda machine of the other side to pick up his (Papadopoullos) words and make full use of them as an add on to it’s propaganda literature? Wouldn’t it be the perfect ammunition for them to continue their struggle to prove that indeed the GCs were continuously butchering the TCs for 14 years and now, we also have the GC leader even admitting it publicly?

Therefore, under the current situation and before having concluded a final solution, I can understand Papadopoullos cautiousness, although he intentionally lied. Once a solution is reached and the country is re-united for good, if the same question is put in front of Papadopoullos again, I am sure he will not give the same answer. Why? Because the reasons not to tell the truth, will no longer exist.

Please tell me now, why has Turkey so far never admitted that her army has committed any atrocities against the GCs in 1974? Isn’t it a fact? Of course it is a fact, and a well documented one. However, should Turkey admit such a thing, then she can no longer call the 1974 invasion as “peace” operation. What is the reason that Turkey refuses to admit it? The same reason that Papadopoullos has said what he said in that interview, which is to avoid offering ammunition to the propaganda machine of the opposite side.

Total and utter bullshit....the man is a liar, you just cannot explain it away, you are spouting out the crap that TCs associate with GCs are really trying to convince people that black is white.

[Kifeas]

Well! There is nothing else I need to say other than that he is the elected GC leader with over 72% public opinion support in one very resent gallop. This is one of the highest a GC leader and RoC president has ever enjoyed after Makarios. It seems that the International community and the TC /Turkish side have no other alternative than to accept that he is the representative of the GCs and the one they have to deal and /or negotiate with. Therefore, I wander what purpose one will ever serve by constantly discrediting and defaming him, instead of taking the man and his words for they stand at present? The only motive I can personally see behind such an attitute, is someone’s unwillingness to try and work for a solution, hiding behind allegations against Papadopoullos sincerity and genuine agenda.

Nobody said that he is not representing his society well nor had we said that he is not legitimate leader...

All we have said that we do not trust him, and that makes agreeing with him much harder. (on the flip side seeing the support he gets among GCs makes me also believe that it is harder to agree with them either.)

Furthermore again you have asked what purpose does it serve to discredit him? That is funny. So we should shut up and not say that we do not trust him, and he has a lower standing in the eyes of TC then even Denktas had in the eyes of GC. If you can come here and claim that he is a good leader, I can come here and claim that he is not, and we do not trust him, (and again it does not matter if we trust him or not, he represents you, so you should trust him not us.)

And again I did not know that we were solving Cyprus solution here.

Let’s say Tassos and Talat, with some miraculous reason agreed on a solution better than Annan Plan for both sides. I would still look into this solution with more skepticism and be more warry about it before I vote, just because it was Tassos that negotiated it.

And this is not prejudice as well . WE had ample amount of time to learn Tassos, since from the EOKA days.

Can people change? I want to believe so, but I am not hopeful.

Therefore only two things can be true.

Either the vast majority of Greek Cypriots are completely stupid and they cannot see in Papadopoullos the things you (TCs) can see, or that Papadopoullos is indeed the bad guy for a solution and so do they (GCs) are for supporting and holding him in power.

[Kifeas]

Kifeas

I have thousands of posts and argued with many and i am still to be convinced when it comes to tassos, i see him like the wolf in sheeps clothing and have no trust at all in him especially after his infamous no tc killed speech, the lies concerning the SG and his one year on failure to sit down to negotiations.


Brother,
I agree that if he said that absolutely no one TC was killed after 1964, when most intercommunal fighting had settled down, then it was definately a lie.

What remains to be examined is whether this was an intentional or an unintentional lie.

Politicians sometimes, especially when carrying foreign contacts or interviews, tend to exaggerate in order to stress a point. Papadopoullos didn't hide the facts in that interview that there was indeed intercommunal violence and many TCs were killed by GC irregulars. However in his effort to stress that this has been put into control after some time and attacks against TCs were reduced to a much less degree, perhaps he was carried unintentionally too far away and said none, in order to stress the point he wanted to make, which was the real fact that after 1964 any similar and massive violent attacks by GC irregulars against TC civilians were reduced to a minimum level. Of course there are the events of Kofinou village in 1967, in which TC civilians were also killed, but this event by itself is an entirely separate chapter, which I once discussed with Gabaston in a different thread. The truth remains that he lied but if what I said above was the real point he wanted to make, then I would call it an unintentional lie.

However, there is an entirely different issue here, which is related to the propaganda that each side used and /or continues to use until this date. I will only touch the issue of the Turkish / TC partitionist propaganda here, although I do not refuse that there was an equivalent GC pro union propaganda. For decades now, the main argument of the Turkish /TC propaganda machine, which was aiming to promote partition and /or recognition of a separate TC state, was that the GCs and TCs cannot live together, cannot coexist and the only period of time in which they were both left alone was the period between 1960-1974 but the end result was mass killings of TCs by the GCs, who hate them and their (GCs) only aim is to annihilate them (TCs) and make Cyprus a Greek Island.
This propaganda continues to be used even up to this moment by those forces within the TC community and in Turkey who do not favor reunification and want to convince the outside world that the only solution is that of partition. Not very long ago, Denktash has used, yet again, exactly the same verbose.

Under this climate and circumstances, tell me which GC politician who is trying to reunite his country and obstruct the partitionist plans of the fanatics of the other side, would ever dare say, especially in a foreign media, that indeed the GCs were continually killing the TCs up until 1974 when Turkey invaded. Wouldn’t this be a golden chance for the propaganda machine of the other side to pick up his (Papadopoullos) words and make full use of them as an add on to it’s propaganda literature? Wouldn’t it be the perfect ammunition for them to continue their struggle to prove that indeed the GCs were continuously butchering the TCs for 14 years and now, we also have the GC leader even admitting it publicly?

Therefore, under the current situation and before having concluded a final solution, I can understand Papadopoullos cautiousness, although he intentionally lied. Once a solution is reached and the country is re-united for good, if the same question is put in front of Papadopoullos again, I am sure he will not give the same answer. Why? Because the reasons not to tell the truth, will no longer exist.

Please tell me now, why has Turkey so far never admitted that her army has committed any atrocities against the GCs in 1974? Isn’t it a fact? Of course it is a fact, and a well documented one. However, should Turkey admit such a thing, then she can no longer call the 1974 invasion as “peace” operation. What is the reason that Turkey refuses to admit it? The same reason that Papadopoullos has said what he said in that interview, which is to avoid offering ammunition to the propaganda machine of the opposite side.

Total and utter bullshit....the man is a liar, you just cannot explain it away, you are spouting out the crap that TCs associate with GCs are really trying to convince people that black is white.

[turkcyp]

deleted by the author...