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Rehn takes stand against refugees' legal moves

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Re: But

Postby boomerang » Mon May 16, 2005 11:35 am

LANDJO wrote:But they have said negative things about the Turkish occupation for 30 years. Isnt it time for some fresh winds?

The ECHR is a highly political institution, and their decisions in the property cases were made at a time when it was en vogue to see Turkey as (almost) a rogue state. I doubt it would have decided the same way today - the judgment would have been referred to the political arena.


Turkey is still a rogue state. The ECHR rules will still apply in favour of the GC because there is a ruling already. The Loizidou case.
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Postby brother » Mon May 16, 2005 11:46 am

Turkey is still a rogue state. The ECHR rules will still apply in favour of the GC because there is a ruling already. The Loizidou case.


Firstly the E.U does not offer membership to rogue states and since the referandum their perception of the cyprus situation has changed and now see it in a different light hence why all other cases since Lozidous are going to take forever imo.
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Postby boomerang » Mon May 16, 2005 11:51 am

brother wrote:
Turkey is still a rogue state. The ECHR rules will still apply in favour of the GC because there is a ruling already. The Loizidou case.


Firstly the E.U does not offer membership to rogue states and since the referandum their perception of the cyprus situation has changed and now see it in a different light hence why all other cases since Lozidous are going to take forever imo.


Time is not the issue here. Pressure and perception are the issues.

The perceprtion has change but the pendulum has swung back again. In 3 years who is going to worry about the referendum? Especially when it was only a vote. This is why Talat is panicking along with the Turks. ask your self why the Turks want to resolve the Cyprus problem. Is it because all of a sudden they found a strange urge to do so? There must be something that is forcing the Turks to want a solution like yesterday.
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Postby brother » Mon May 16, 2005 12:17 pm

We all knpw that the turks E.U membership asperations is their driving force, this is no secret but for the tc it is getting out of this 30 year isolation they have been put under that they never deserved.
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Postby boomerang » Mon May 16, 2005 3:00 pm

brother wrote:We all knpw that the turks E.U membership asperations is their driving force, this is no secret but for the tc it is getting out of this 30 year isolation they have been put under that they never deserved.


Bro blame turkey, they brought misery to all the cypriots. It's only right that Turkey has to undo the wrong and make it into a right. Instead Turkey is still screwing you by making you a minority. In the next 10 years there will be no TC left, either they move to the or migrate.

Maybe you will require the Anal plan in the Nth.
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Postby brother » Mon May 16, 2005 3:56 pm

I blame Greece, the Enosis GC, Turkey and the Taksim TC who have screwed over all the cypriots that started these events.

Then i blamed Denktas and his partition bullshit plans.

Now i blame Tassos and his partition plans.

But overall this blame in my opinion is spread over equally among the above mentioned.
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Postby Kifeas » Mon May 16, 2005 4:01 pm

brother wrote:I blame Greece, the Enosis GC, Turkey and the Taksim TC who have screwed over all the cypriots that started these events.

Then i blamed Denktas and his partition bullshit plans.

Now i blame Tassos and his partition plans.

But overall this blame in my opinion is spread over equally among the above mentioned.


Brother,
Tassos strives for a truly independed Cyprus for the Cypriots and not a protectorate province of the UK, Turkey, Greece and the Americans, like it was meant to be under A-plan.
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Postby brother » Mon May 16, 2005 4:10 pm

I have thousands of posts and argued with many and i am still to be convinced when it comes to tassos, i see him like the wolf in sheeps clothing and have no trust at all in him especially after his infamous no tc killed speech, the lies concerning the SG and his one year on failure to sit down to negotiations.

I see him more of a weasel than a man and unless i see something constructive and positive from him i will carry on with my hate for the weasel.

BTW the tc know of him well from his younger days and even though there might be no concrete evidence in our hands to show just yet, cyprus is a small place and we know what he has done in the past and know what he can do in the future based on his past mentalities.
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Postby Viewpoint » Mon May 16, 2005 4:11 pm

Kifeas
Tassos strives for a truly independed Cyprus for the Cypriots and not a protectorate province of the UK, Turkey, Greece and the Americans, like it was meant to be under A-plan.


Firstly wake up and see whats in front of you, 1 year down the line and no one is talking I wonder whos to blame?? You can blame Erdogan, Talat, Bush, Blair, Annan all the world leaders, the queens dog but you cant blame Papadop hes so honest truthful understanding sticks to the facts and never ever lies:lol:
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Postby Kifeas » Mon May 16, 2005 5:12 pm

brother wrote:I have thousands of posts and argued with many and i am still to be convinced when it comes to tassos, i see him like the wolf in sheeps clothing and have no trust at all in him especially after his infamous no tc killed speech, the lies concerning the SG and his one year on failure to sit down to negotiations.


Brother,
I agree that if he said that absolutely no one TC was killed after 1964, when most intercommunal fighting had settled down, then it was definately a lie.

What remains to be examined is whether this was an intentional or an unintentional lie.

Politicians sometimes, especially when carrying foreign contacts or interviews, tend to exaggerate in order to stress a point. Papadopoullos didn't hide the facts in that interview that there was indeed intercommunal violence and many TCs were killed by GC irregulars. However in his effort to stress that this has been put into control after some time and attacks against TCs were reduced to a much less degree, perhaps he was carried unintentionally too far away and said none, in order to stress the point he wanted to make, which was the real fact that after 1964 any similar and massive violent attacks by GC irregulars against TC civilians were reduced to a minimum level. Of course there are the events of Kofinou village in 1967, in which TC civilians were also killed, but this event by itself is an entirely separate chapter, which I once discussed with Gabaston in a different thread. The truth remains that he lied but if what I said above was the real point he wanted to make, then I would call it an unintentional lie.

However, there is an entirely different issue here, which is related to the propaganda that each side used and /or continues to use until this date. I will only touch the issue of the Turkish / TC partitionist propaganda here, although I do not refuse that there was an equivalent GC pro union propaganda. For decades now, the main argument of the Turkish /TC propaganda machine, which was aiming to promote partition and /or recognition of a separate TC state, was that the GCs and TCs cannot live together, cannot coexist and the only period of time in which they were both left alone was the period between 1960-1974 but the end result was mass killings of TCs by the GCs, who hate them and their (GCs) only aim is to annihilate them (TCs) and make Cyprus a Greek Island.
This propaganda continues to be used even up to this moment by those forces within the TC community and in Turkey who do not favor reunification and want to convince the outside world that the only solution is that of partition. Not very long ago, Denktash has used, yet again, exactly the same verbose.

Under this climate and circumstances, tell me which GC politician who is trying to reunite his country and obstruct the partitionist plans of the fanatics of the other side, would ever dare say, especially in a foreign media, that indeed the GCs were continually killing the TCs up until 1974 when Turkey invaded. Wouldn’t this be a golden chance for the propaganda machine of the other side to pick up his (Papadopoullos) words and make full use of them as an add on to it’s propaganda literature? Wouldn’t it be the perfect ammunition for them to continue their struggle to prove that indeed the GCs were continuously butchering the TCs for 14 years and now, we also have the GC leader even admitting it publicly?

Therefore, under the current situation and before having concluded a final solution, I can understand Papadopoullos cautiousness, although he intentionally lied. Once a solution is reached and the country is re-united for good, if the same question is put in front of Papadopoullos again, I am sure he will not give the same answer. Why? Because the reasons not to tell the truth, will no longer exist.

Please tell me now, why has Turkey so far never admitted that her army has committed any atrocities against the GCs in 1974? Isn’t it a fact? Of course it is a fact, and a well documented one. However, should Turkey admit such a thing, then she can no longer call the 1974 invasion as “peace” operation. What is the reason that Turkey refuses to admit it? The same reason that Papadopoullos has said what he said in that interview, which is to avoid offering ammunition to the propaganda machine of the opposite side.
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