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How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby eracles » Thu Sep 25, 2008 3:57 pm

Piratis wrote:Halil, do you dispute the fact that it is the TCs who attacked the GCs in 1958 starting the inter-communal conflict?

Do you dispute the fact that in the inter-communal conflict which the TCs started both communities had casualties?

Also, let me ask you one more question: When the Turks were declaring Asia Minor as being "Turkey" did they have the right to do it? Did they take the approval of the 20% Kurds and the Greek and other minorities in order to do so? Was it a crime declaring Asia Minor as Turkey without the prior approval of the minorities? Cyprus was under the British and the Ottoman empires against the will of the overwhelming majority of the Cypriot people for centuries. You never complained about this. Yet, you believe it was a crime that the Cypriot people themselves wanted to be part of a free Greek state like it happened with most other Greek islands? Why?


What he said...
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Postby zan » Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:32 pm

eracles wrote:
Piratis wrote:Halil, do you dispute the fact that it is the TCs who attacked the GCs in 1958 starting the inter-communal conflict?

Do you dispute the fact that in the inter-communal conflict which the TCs started both communities had casualties?

Also, let me ask you one more question: When the Turks were declaring Asia Minor as being "Turkey" did they have the right to do it? Did they take the approval of the 20% Kurds and the Greek and other minorities in order to do so? Was it a crime declaring Asia Minor as Turkey without the prior approval of the minorities? Cyprus was under the British and the Ottoman empires against the will of the overwhelming majority of the Cypriot people for centuries. You never complained about this. Yet, you believe it was a crime that the Cypriot people themselves wanted to be part of a free Greek state like it happened with most other Greek islands? Why?


What he said...



When did your fight for ENOSIS begin.....I will tell you...Long before any TCs attacked GCs......Conflict was there when the firs tPriest from hell asked the first Brits that landed to give the island to Greece.......So stop your crap Piratis..... :roll: :roll:
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Postby halil » Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:00 am

DT. wrote:Partition Plans Furthered

In furtherance of its plans of partition, and in violation of the 1949 Geneva Conventions and its international obligations regarding respect for human rights and all relevant resolutions of the United Nations, which it has itself endorsed or voted for, Turkey organized on 8 June 1975, in collaboration with the Turkish Cypriot leadership, a "referendum" in the occupied part of the Republic. This so-called referendum is of course null and void. A referendum in an area where 80% of the population has been forcibly expelled by a foreign occupying country is inconceivable. According to basic theory and logic a referendum is a democratic process and not a tool for racial discrimination against the overwhelming majority of the population. This action is not only against the Greek Cypriots, who have been living in this island for thousands of years, but also against the real interests of the Turkish Cypriot community, which has been used by Turkey in the last decade or so as its tool against the independence of Cyprus. The provisions of the "constitution" of the so-called Turkish Federated State of Cyprus are eloquent. In its preamble it claims that the "Turkish Cypriot community constitutes the inseparable part of the Great Turkish Nation". That the "constitution" aims at linking the occupied part with Turkey also becomes clear from the affirmation of the "members of the Assembly" to respect the "principles of Ataturk" and not the principles of the Constitution of Cyprus. It should be noted that the "constitution", in all relevant provisions, refers to the members of the Turkish Cypriot community as "Turkish citizens" so as to enable Turks from Turkey to colonize Cyprus without being distinguished from the indigenous Turkish population.
Another feature of the above "constitution" is the fact that all the enclaved Greek Cypriots as well as the non-Turkish communities in the territory under occupation by Turkey are defined as "aliens". They are deprived of their fundamental human and political rights, and their rights are determined by a "special law" for "aliens". Moreover, the Greek Cypriots' right to ownership is not respected. On the contrary, the "constitution" contains provisions whose application presupposes the expropriation of property belonging to Greek Cypriot displaced persons, such as houses, fields, factories, hotels etc., and their allocation to Turkish Cypriots and Turks from Turkey. An outrageous act of the Turkish Cypriot leadership was also the enactment of a "law" for the distribution of Greek Cypriot property to the Turks.


1964-74 Situation: Separate Communal Life

http://www.country-data.com/cgi-bin/query/r-3568.html

By the spring of 1964, the legislature was effectively a Greek Cypriot body. Turkish Cypriot representatives, like their counterparts in the civil service, feared for their safety in the Greek-dominated parts of Nicosia, and did not participate.

Turkish Cypriots have argued that what they considered their involuntary nonparticipation rendered any acts of that parliament unconstitutional. Greek Cypriots have maintained that the institutions continued to function under the constitution, despite Turkish Cypriot absence.

In 1964 the Greek Cypriot-controlled House of Representatives passed a number of important pieces of legislation, including laws providing for the establishment of an armed force, the National Guard, and for the restoration to the government of its rights to impose an income tax. Other laws altered the government structure and some of the bicommunal arrangements, including abolishing separate electoral rolls for Greek and Turkish Cypriots, abolishing the Greek Cypriot Communal Chamber, and amalgamating the Supreme Constitutional Court and the High Court of Justice into the Supreme Court.

Reaction of the Turkish Cypriot judiciary to this judicial change was apparently not unfavorable, since a Turkish Cypriot was named president of the Supreme Court. He assumed his post, and other Turkish Cypriot judges returned to the bench. For about two years, Turkish Cypriot judges participated in the revised court system, dealing with both Greek and Turkish Cypriots. In June 1966, however, the Turkish Cypriot judges withdrew from the system, claiming harassment. The Turkish Cypriot leadership directed its community not to use the courts of the republic, to which, however, they continued to be legally entitled, according to the Greek Cypriots. In turn, the judicial processes set up in the Turkish Cypriot community were considered by the Greek Cypriot government to be without legal foundation.

The establishment of a separate Turkish Cypriot administration evolved in late 1967, in the wake of renewed intercommunal hostilities (see Intercommunal Violence , ch. 1). Turkish Cypriot leaders, on December 29, 1967, announced the formation of a "transitional administration" to oversee the affairs of the Turkish Cypriot community "until such time as provisions of the 1960 constitution have been fully implemented." The administration was to be headed by Küçük as president and Rauf Denktas (the former president of the Turkish Cypriot Communal Chamber, who had been living in exile in Turkey) as vice president.

The fifteen Turkish Cypriot former members of the republic's House of Representatives joined the members of the Turkish Cypriot Communal Chamber to constitute a Turkish Cypriot legislative assembly. Nine of the members were to function as an executive council to carry out ministerial duties. President Makarios declared the administration illegal and its actions devoid of any legal effect.

On February 25, 1968, Greek Cypriots reelected Makarios to office, in the first presidential election since 1960, by an overwhelming majority. Running against a single opponent campaigning for enosis, Makarios won about 96 percent of the votes cast.

Intercommunal talks for a solution to the constitutional crisis began on June 24, 1968, and reached a deadlock on September 20, 1971. Talks resumed in July 1972, in the presence of UN Secretary General Kurt Waldheim and one constitutional adviser each from Greece and Turkey. Both sides realized that the basic articles of the constitution, intended to balance the rights and interests of both communities, had become moot and that new constitutional arrangements had to be found.

At the same time, extralegal political activities were proliferating, some based on preindependence clandestine movements. The emergence of these groups, namely, the National Organization of Cypriot Fighters (Ethniki Organosis Kyprion Agoniston B--EOKA B) and its Turkish Cypriot response, the Turkish Resistance Organization (Türk Mukavemet Teskilâti--TMT), were eroding the authority of conventional politicians. There were mounting calls for enosis from forces no longer supportive of Makarios, notably the National Guard, and there was a radical Turkish Cypriot reaction
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Postby DT. » Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:07 am

The First Round of Talks

Turkey's tactics were also manifest in its attitude towards the inter-communal talks, held under the auspices of the then U.N. Secretary General, Dr. Kurt Waldheim, in pursuance of Security Council resolution 362 (1975). Three rounds of talks were held in Vienna between 28 April and 3 May, 5 and 7 June, 31 July and 2 August 1975.1 The Turkish side followed delaying tactics and refused to put forward clearcut proposals on all aspects of the Cyprus problem, as her aim was the consolidation with the lapse of time of her position and the eventual turkification of the occupied territory. At the third round of the talks in Vienna the Turkish Cypriot negotiator agreed to submit comprehensive proposals before the next round, which was scheduled to take place in New York on 8 and 9 September 1975.
But the Turkish Cypriot side failed to submit the proposals it had promised and, in an attempt to turn world attention away from its commitments, continued instead to demand the establishment of a transitional government in an effort to deprive the Cyprus Government of its world recognition and deviate from the scheduled route of the negotiations.
Turkey also made it abundantly clear in New York that she was against any meaningful negotiations and tried to prolong the talks in order to consolidate the faits accomplis created through the use of armed force against the independence, sovereignty and territorial integrity of Cyprus.
In view of the impasse created by the negative stand of the Turkish Cypriot side at the talks and Ankara's implementation of the colonisation plans, the Cyprus Government once again had recourse to the U.N. General Assembly. After hearing the views of the two sides, the General Assembly (R/3395) demanded the withdrawal of all foreign troops without further delay.2
In putting forward its case before the United Nations the Cyprus Government expressed its desire that the Greek and Turkish Cypriots live together in peace as they had done for many years in the past, and enjoy the benefits of progress and prosperity in their country. Moreover it stressed that the forcible movement of Greek Cypriots and seizure of their properties were inhuman acts and would be to the detriment of both sides. The Cyprus Government also declared that past experience has taught that if a settlement is to last it should be under broad effective international guarantees. As late President Makarios emphasized in his address before the General Assembly, "in an independent, non-aligned Cyprus free from the threats of force and all outside interference, its people, Greek and Turkish Cypriots, can live together in harmony with mutual respect for their legitimate rights. In these circumstances there will be neither need nor purpose for the existence of any armies". The Cypriot President said further that "the Government of Cyprus supports a fully demilitarized state of Cyprus and to this end is prepared to disband completely its armed forces.
In December 1975 the U.N. Secretary-General told the Security Council that he would be in contact with the parties "with a view to the resumption of the talks at the earliest possible time".
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Postby zan » Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:12 am

DT. wrote:The First Round of Talks

Turkey's tactics were also manifest in its attitude towards the inter-communal talks, held under the auspices of the then U.N. Secretary General, Dr. Kurt Waldheim, in pursuance of Security Council resolution 362 (1975). Three rounds of talks were held in Vienna between 28 April and 3 May, 5 and 7 June, 31 July and 2 August 1975.1 The Turkish side followed delaying tactics and refused to put forward clearcut proposals on all aspects of the Cyprus problem, as her aim was the consolidation with the lapse of time of her position and the eventual turkification of the occupied territory. At the third round of the talks in Vienna the Turkish Cypriot negotiator agreed to submit comprehensive proposals before the next round, which was scheduled to take place in New York on 8 and 9 September 1975.
But the Turkish Cypriot side failed to submit the proposals it had promised and, in an attempt to turn world attention away from its commitments, continued instead to demand the establishment of a transitional government in an effort to deprive the Cyprus Government of its world recognition and deviate from the scheduled route of the negotiations.
Turkey also made it abundantly clear in New York that she was against any meaningful negotiations and tried to prolong the talks in order to consolidate the faits accomplis created through the use of armed force against the independence, sovereignty and territorial integrity of Cyprus.
In view of the impasse created by the negative stand of the Turkish Cypriot side at the talks and Ankara's implementation of the colonisation plans, the Cyprus Government once again had recourse to the U.N. General Assembly. After hearing the views of the two sides, the General Assembly (R/3395) demanded the withdrawal of all foreign troops without further delay.2
In putting forward its case before the United Nations the Cyprus Government expressed its desire that the Greek and Turkish Cypriots live together in peace as they had done for many years in the past, and enjoy the benefits of progress and prosperity in their country. Moreover it stressed that the forcible movement of Greek Cypriots and seizure of their properties were inhuman acts and would be to the detriment of both sides. The Cyprus Government also declared that past experience has taught that if a settlement is to last it should be under broad effective international guarantees. As late President Makarios emphasized in his address before the General Assembly, "in an independent, non-aligned Cyprus free from the threats of force and all outside interference, its people, Greek and Turkish Cypriots, can live together in harmony with mutual respect for their legitimate rights. In these circumstances there will be neither need nor purpose for the existence of any armies". The Cypriot President said further that "the Government of Cyprus supports a fully demilitarized state of Cyprus and to this end is prepared to disband completely its armed forces.
In December 1975 the U.N. Secretary-General told the Security Council that he would be in contact with the parties "with a view to the resumption of the talks at the earliest possible time".


Well there's a surprise...Let down by the UK and the US and attacked by Greece and sabotaged by Makarios....People waiting for her to show some weakness so they can attack and destroy her and she was to just lay down and have her tummy rubbed........Shame they didn't make these proposals when the TCs were starving......And then they wanted our trust as well........ :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
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Postby halil » Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:24 am

Piratis wrote:Halil, do you dispute the fact that it is the TCs who attacked the GCs in 1958 starting the inter-communal conflict?

Do you dispute the fact that in the inter-communal conflict which the TCs started both communities had casualties?

Also, let me ask you one more question: When the Turks were declaring Asia Minor as being "Turkey" did they have the right to do it? Did they take the approval of the 20% Kurds and the Greek and other minorities in order to do so? Was it a crime declaring Asia Minor as Turkey without the prior approval of the minorities? Cyprus was under the British and the Ottoman empires against the will of the overwhelming majority of the Cypriot people for centuries. You never complained about this. Yet, you believe it was a crime that the Cypriot people themselves wanted to be part of a free Greek state like it happened with most other Greek islands? Why?


I am talking about ROC times not what was happened before .

Or what was Turkey ,Greece or others did ...... our problem is started after break of ROC ....
here is the foregin source for u ...İt is not Turkish or Greek version , not my or your version .....

Intercommunal Violence

The atmosphere on the island was tense. On December 21, 1963, serious violence erupted in Nicosia when a Greek Cypriot police patrol, ostensibly checking identification documents, stopped a Turkish Cypriot couple on the edge of the Turkish quarter. A hostile crowd gathered, shots were fired, and two Turkish Cypriots were killed. As the news spread, members of the underground organizations began firing and taking hostages. North of Nicosia, Turkish forces occupied a strong position at St. Hilarion Castle, dominating the road to Kyrenia on the northern coast. The road became a principal combat area as both sides fought to control it. Much intercommunal fighting occurred in Nicosia along the line separating the Greek and Turkish quarters of the city (known later as the Green Line). Turkish Cypriots were not concentrated in one area, but lived throughout the island, making their position precarious. Vice-President Küçük and Turkish Cypriot ministers and members of the House of Representatives ceased participating in the government.

In January 1964, after an inconclusive conference in London among representatives of Britain, Greece, Turkey, and the two Cypriot communities, UN Secretary General U Thant, at the request of the Cyprus government, sent a special representative to the island. After receiving a firsthand report in February, the Security Council authorized a peace-keeping force under the direction of the secretary general. Advance units reached Cyprus in March, and by May the United Nations Peace-keeping Force in Cyprus (UNFICYP) totaled about 6,500 troops. Originally authorized for a three-month period, the force, at decreased strength, was still in position in the early 1990s.

Severe intercommunal fighting occurred in March and April 1964. When the worst of the fighting was over, Turkish Cypriots--sometimes of their own volition and at other times forced by the TMT--began moving from isolated rural areas and mixed villages into enclaves. Before long, a substantial portion of the island's Turkish Cypriot population was crowded into the Turkish quarter of Nicosia in tents and hastily constructed shacks. Slum conditions resulted from the serious overcrowding. All necessities as well as utilities had to be brought in through the Greek Cypriot lines. Many Turkish Cypriots who had not moved into Nicosia gave up their land and houses for the security of other enclaves.

In June 1964, the House of Representatives, functioning with only its Greek Cypriot members, passed a bill establishing the National Guard, in which all Cypriot males between the ages of eighteen and fifty-nine were liable to compulsory service. The right of Cypriots to bear arms was then limited to this National Guard and to the police. Invited by Makarios, General Grivas returned to Cyprus in June to assume command of the National Guard; the purpose of the new law was to curb the proliferation of Greek Cypriot irregular bands and bring them under control in an organization commanded by the prestigious Grivas. Turks and Turkish Cypriots meanwhile charged that large numbers of Greek regular troops were being clandestinely infiltrated into the island to lend professionalism to the National Guard. Turkey began military preparations for an invasion of the island. A brutally frank warning from United States president Lyndon B. Johnson to Prime Minister Ismet Inönü caused the Turks to call off the invasion. In August, however, Turkish jets attacked Greek Cypriot forces besieging Turkish Cypriot villages on the northwestern coast near Kokkina.

In July, veteran United States diplomat Dean Acheson met with Greek and Turkish representatives in Geneva. From this meeting emerged what became known as the Acheson Plan, according to which Greek Cypriots would have enosis and Greece was to award the Aegean island of Kastelorrizon to Turkey and compensate Turkish Cypriots wishing to emigrate. Secure Turkish enclaves and a Turkish sovereign military base area were to be provided on Cyprus. Makarios rejected the plan, because it called for what he saw as a modified form of partition.

Throughout 1964 and later, President Makarios and the Greek Cypriot leadership adopted the view that the establishment of UNFICYP by the UN Security Council had set aside the rights of intervention granted to the guarantor powers--Britain, Greece, and Turkey--by the Treaty of Guarantee. The Turkish leadership, on the other hand, contended that the Security Council action had reinforced the provisions of the treaty. These diametrically opposed views illustrated the basic Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot positions; the former holding that the constitution and the other provisions of the treaties were flexible and subject to change under changing conditions, and the latter, that they were fixed agreements, not subject to change.

Grivas and the National Guard reacted to Turkish pressure by initiating patrols into the Turkish Cypriot enclaves. Patrols surrounded two villages, Ayios Theodhoros and Kophinou, about twenty-five kilometers southwest of Larnaca, and began sending in heavily armed patrols. Fighting broke out, and by the time the Guard withdrew, twenty-six Turkish Cypriots had been killed. Turkey issued an ultimatum and threatened to intervene in force to protect Turkish Cypriots. To back up their demands, the Turks massed troops on the Thracian border separating Greece and Turkey and began assembling an amphibious invasion force. The ultimatum's conditions included the expulsion of Grivas from Cyprus, removal of Greek troops from Cyprus, payment of indemnity for the casualties at Ayios Theodhoros and Kophinou, cessation of pressure on the Turkish Cypriot community, and the disbanding of the National Guard.

Grivas resigned as commander of the Greek Cypriot forces on November 20, 1967, and left the island, but the Turks did not reduce their readiness posture, and the dangerous situation of two NATO nations on the threshold of war with each other continued. President Johnson dispatched Cyrus R. Vance as his special envoy to Turkey, Greece, and Cyprus. Vance arrived in Ankara in late November and began ten days of negotiations that defused the situation. Greece agreed to withdraw its forces on Cyprus except for the contingent allowed by the 1960 treaties, provided that Turkey did the same and also dismounted its invasion force. Turkey agreed, and the crisis passed. During December 1967 and early January 1968, about 10,000 Greek troops were withdrawn. Makarios did not disband the National Guard, however, something he came to regret when it rebelled against him in 1974.
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Postby Nikitas » Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:30 am

"shots were fired, and two Turkish Cypriots were killed" and a GC police officer who is not mentioned in this report

"twenty-six Turkish Cypriots had been killed." as well as 17 national guardsmen, so the incident was not one of army versus civilians as the report tries to make out.

Where do you find this rubbish sources Halil?
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Postby halil » Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:43 am

Nikitas wrote:"shots were fired, and two Turkish Cypriots were killed" and a GC police officer who is not mentioned in this report

"twenty-six Turkish Cypriots had been killed." as well as 17 national guardsmen, so the incident was not one of army versus civilians as the report tries to make out.

Where do you find this rubbish sources Halil?


anything does not suit for us rubbish .....

truth lies in the memories of our people ! we all know the truth !!!!!

http://www.country-data.com/frd/cs/cytoc.html#cy0061
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Postby Nikitas » Fri Sep 26, 2008 12:54 pm

Hallil,

We all have memories, but facts are facts. The Kofinou incident is seen in much different light when there is no mention of GC casualties. It then looks as if the TC side were all unarmed civilians and obviously they were not.
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Postby David Carter » Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:26 am

For the attention of Alekan and his poast dated 21 August 2008

For your information, I have never been resident in North Cyprus. I can say that I have been a frequent visitor to both sides of the divide, as well as the UNFICYP-controlled Buffer Zone.

At no time does the Cyprus section of Britain's Small Wars

www.britains-smallwars.com

say that 371 British service fatalities between 1955-1959 - the EOKA conflict years - were the result of EOKA actions. The Honor Roll I publish consists of those British military personnel who died while on active service. Many deaths were the result of traffic accidents, illness etc. Probably 104 of those on the list were fatalities caused by EOKA.

How EOKA today uses the BSW information is outside my control.

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